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Posted: 10/16/2008 11:32:00 AM EDT
when i bought my ar a few mo's ago. the dealer had to make a phonecall
to a 1-800 # and clear that it was ok that i buy a gun.

does anybody know what is said in that phone call.

does the atf know that i bought a ar-15? or is it just stuff like that i was not a felon and the like.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:33:00 AM EDT
Hide your dog.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:33:09 AM EDT
In Oregon, the call is made to the State Police.  And yes, ATF knows you bought an AR.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:33:42 AM EDT
It is a call to an FBI database center, I believe.

They only know it is a long gun or hand gun, not the make and model.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:34:05 AM EDT
Assume that they know.  During the DC sniper hunt, it was reported that ATF showed up at shops to make copies of 4473s.  So, even if they don't know, they could easily find out.  
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:34:25 AM EDT
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:35:30 AM EDT
They don't know that you haven't sold it.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:35:42 AM EDT
They read off the 4473.

Calm down...you're fine.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:35:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


They do here

Model-caliber-serial number-long gun or handgun
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:38:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


They do here

Model-caliber-serial number-long gun or handgun


Interesting, I guess each state has different call in questions they have to answer, here just long gun or handgun.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:42:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 11:43:03 AM EDT by 87GN]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


They do here

Model-caliber-serial number-long gun or handgun


That is written on the form but not called in to NICS which is administered by the FBI.

They know your name, address, place of birth, SSN if you provide it.

NICS does not know what make/model you bought.

Your state might, but not NICS.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:42:33 AM EDT
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:42:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


Which they do...once a year.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:43:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 11:44:12 AM EDT by 87GN]

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


Completed 4473s for weapons that were transferred are held for 20 years.

Denied/voided/canceled/etc 4473s are held for 5 years.

After that the gun shop has the option to destroy the forms.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:44:10 AM EDT
I bought a Ruger .22 and Ruger called me months later and asked me for the serial number.  I have no idea why, or how they got my number.  

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:44:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


Which they do...once a year.


Only if they record all of the data or copy them.  I won't question that the data is available if they want to trace it, but in my experience they don't just automatically copy all of the 4473s when they visit.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:45:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


I am pretty sure there is too.

If one of my ARs that I bought 3 years ago was stolen, and used in a crime before I reported it stolen, I am pretty sure LE would be knocking on my door wanting to ask me some questions.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:45:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


Completed 4473s for weapons that were transferred are held for 20 years.

Denied/voided/canceled/etc 4473s are held for 5 years.

After that the gun shop has the option to destroy the forms.


Just out of curiosity, what happens to the forms if the shop goes out of business?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:46:25 AM EDT
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:46:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


They do here

Model-caliber-serial number-long gun or handgun


That is written on the form but not called in to NICS which is administered by the FBI.

They know your name, address, place of birth, SSN if you provide it.

NICS does not know what make/model you bought.

Your state might, but not NICS.


When you call nics here (TBI) that is the info you give.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:46:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


BATFE sends "inspectors" out once a year to go through the dealer's records, especially his 4473's. Sometimes they take scanners and portable copiers with them.

When the DC Sniper was hitting the BATFE was sending investigators to the houses of people who had recently purchased .223 rifles.

During the investigation into the murder of two girls in Oklahoma the OBI worked with the BATFE to compile a list of people who owned .40 caliber Glocks. They sent letters to 60 people in the county and ordered them to bring their guns in for ballistic testing.

You bet your ass there is a secret gun registry in this country.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:47:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JCKnife:

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


Completed 4473s for weapons that were transferred are held for 20 years.

Denied/voided/canceled/etc 4473s are held for 5 years.

After that the gun shop has the option to destroy the forms.


Just out of curiosity, what happens to the forms if the shop goes out of business?
ATF gets em iirc
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:47:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JCKnife:

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


Completed 4473s for weapons that were transferred are held for 20 years.

Denied/voided/canceled/etc 4473s are held for 5 years.

After that the gun shop has the option to destroy the forms.


Just out of curiosity, what happens to the forms if the shop goes out of business?


BATFE gets them.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:48:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JCKnife:

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


Completed 4473s for weapons that were transferred are held for 20 years.

Denied/voided/canceled/etc 4473s are held for 5 years.

After that the gun shop has the option to destroy the forms.


Just out of curiosity, what happens to the forms if the shop goes out of business?


They are sent to the BATFE.

The forms only HAVE to be kept for 20 years, but if the FFL goes out of business then all of his forms that are less than 20 years old must be sent to the BATFE. You think they're getting rid of those forms?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:49:07 AM EDT
I don't know about your state, but as far as the feds know, you bought a rifle.  They don't know what kind.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ORinTX:
I don't know about your state, but as far as the feds know, you bought a rifle.  They don't know what kind.


Long Gun
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:52:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


4473's are never destroyed and should the business go under, all records are transferred to the BATFE.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:53:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By asknight:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


4473's are never destroyed and should the business go under, all records are transferred to the BATFE.
Only if that's a recent change.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:54:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By asknight:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


4473's are never destroyed and should the business go under, all records are transferred to the BATFE.


See my post above...20 years/5 years.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:57:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.


Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:58:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.




Don't laugh, he's from Afghanistan , he speaks the truth.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:01:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.





He speaks the truth.  I can do the same thing.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:01:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 12:02:10 PM EDT by Dusty_C]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.




Don't laugh, he's from Afghanistan , he speaks the truth.
Nope, but I have bought some guns in the Bakara market.
Place called Al's lock and key, go figure
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:01:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.




I can too. Still have to do the form though.

AZ CWP FTW.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:02:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.




Don't laugh, he's from Afghanistan , he speaks the truth.
Nope, but I have bought some guns in the Bakara market.



In Arkansas if you have a CHL you're exempt from the NICS.


Really?

Here, we still have the NICS but no 3 day waiting period on handguns.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:02:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.




I can too. Still have to do the form though.

AZ CWP FTW.
We do to.  
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


They do here

Model-caliber-serial number-long gun or handgun


Interesting, I guess each state has different call in questions they have to answer, here just long gun or handgun.


Same here in Indiana.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:03:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By damcv62:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.




Don't laugh, he's from Afghanistan , he speaks the truth.
Nope, but I have bought some guns in the Bakara market.



In Arkansas if you have a CHL you're exempt from the NICS.


Really?

Here, we still have the NICS but no 3 day waiting period on handguns.
Ya' rly!




Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:05:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rhinodo99:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By jhereg:
Instant background check.  They don't know what you purchased unless they come in & check the 4473.


They do here

Model-caliber-serial number-long gun or handgun


Interesting, I guess each state has different call in questions they have to answer, here just long gun or handgun.


Same here in Indiana.


In states where more than that is being given, they're doing a state level check.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:16:47 PM EDT
The Phone call was to NICS.

I have made many of these phone calls and it is a simple operation. You call the number, an operator answers, you give her the code for your FFL, then she will ask you for the name of the purchaser, D.O.B. (maybe SS number, i dont recall it has been a few years) long gun or hand gun, and then she spits out a go, deny, or hold. Thats it. IIRC the records of those checks have to be destroyed after a certain amount of time. The only document that says you  bought an ar15 is the form in your gun dealers office.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:26:19 PM EDT
The last time I had a call made, when I bought my M15, they told the dealer to put a "Hold" on that till they checked me out.

Basicly, if you've ever been arrested, I have, or had you fingerprints taken and on file somewhere, it will raise a flag somewhere with the FBI.

The dealer told me that if they don't get back with him within seven days, he could then sell it to me....?, then what is the point?

I understand if I were a serial killer that broke out of prison and didn't know it till the FBI told me, yeah.

I know why I'm "on the list" and it's nothing.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:29:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

BATFE sends "inspectors" out once a year to go through the dealer's records, especially his 4473's. Sometimes they take scanners and portable copiers with them.



Call me gullible, but shouldn't this require a warrant? I understand the audit of the books, but copies?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:31:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 12:32:13 PM EDT by 87GN]

Originally Posted By Kvac1:
The last time I had a call made, when I bought my M15, they told the dealer to put a "Hold" on that till they checked me out.

Basicly, if you've ever been arrested, I have, or had you fingerprints taken and on file somewhere, it will raise a flag somewhere with the FBI.

The dealer told me that if they don't get back with him within seven days, he could then sell it to me....?, then what is the point?

I understand if I were a serial killer that broke out of prison and didn't know it till the FBI told me, yeah.

I know why I'm "on the list" and it's nothing.


If they give you a hold, and the FBI doesn't get back to them in a certain period of time, the dealer MAY transfer you the weapon if they want to.

But if they transfer you the weapon and the FBI comes back with a "denied", then they want your address...sometimes they want the address anyway...

The point is so that someone who hasn't done anything wrong isn't denied a firearm just because the FBI can't process the request in a timely manner.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:35:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kvac1:


or had you fingerprints taken and on file somewhere, it will raise a flag somewhere with the FBI.



I have been fingerprinted repeatedly for high level security clearances.
Never had a problem purchasing a gun, or getting a carry permit.

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:36:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dracster:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

BATFE sends "inspectors" out once a year to go through the dealer's records, especially his 4473's. Sometimes they take scanners and portable copiers with them.



Call me gullible, but shouldn't this require a warrant? I understand the audit of the books, but copies?


The ATF does lots of things that should require due process.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:52:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By Thom101:
Call me paranoid but I believe there is a secret gun registration even when most people claim there is not. I have always been told by g-shops that the 4473 are destroyed after a year but I have my doubts, the .gov knows all of our gun purchases from shops


I am pretty sure there is too.

If one of my ARs that I bought 3 years ago was stolen, and used in a crime before I reported it stolen, I am pretty sure LE would be knocking on my door wanting to ask me some questions.


THIS EXACT THING HAPPENED TO ME!

Had a handgun stolen out of a vehicle.  Didn't notice for a couple of days (long story) then the cops show up at my house asking about it.  I went to look for it, noticed it had been stolen, and explained what happened to them.  

Turns out it had been stolen and used in a robbery by a felon.  No one was hurt, he was apprehended, and I never did get my gun back.  I called for well over a year and the cops kept telling me it was being held as "evidence".

From the EARLIEST time the gun could have possibly been stolen to the time the cops showed up would have been about 48 hours max.

If they care to look, they can find out.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:56:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
It is a call to an FBI database center, I believe.

They only know it is a long gun or hand gun, not the make and model.


They know the serial number, as it's spelled out in the conversation, isn't it?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:57:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR-180:
Assume that they know.  During the DC sniper hunt, it was reported that ATF showed up at shops to make copies of 4473s.  So, even if they don't know, they could easily find out.  


Yeap, I was at my FFL when they stop by.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 12:57:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
NICS are for chumps.  I can walk into a gun shop back home, pick out any handgun I want, pay and walk.  No nics.


Same here, with CPL (CCW)
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 1:02:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
It is a call to an FBI database center, I believe.

They only know it is a long gun or hand gun, not the make and model.


They know the serial number, as it's spelled out in the conversation, isn't it?


No, only handgun/long gun/whatever.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 1:09:26 PM EDT
Another reason I got my CWP. No phone call necessary. Just fill out the paperwork minus SSN, he puts my permit number on it, I pay, shake hands...done.
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