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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 1:01:11 PM EDT by Old_Painless]
If any of you like big S&W revolvers, you will appreciate that most listed loads for a .357 Magnum are clocked out of a long barreled pistol. You can't really get true .357 Mag velocities out of a short barreled pistol.

I have owned long barreled .357's before, but foolishly sold my last one.

I saw one on consignment at the local gun shop, and after slobbering over it for a couple of months, made them an offer today.

Here it is:



It is an old S&W Model 27-2, 8 3/8 inch barrel, pinned and recessed, and never fired.

I'll fix that "never fired" part tomorrow.

A beautiful pistol.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:27:31 PM EDT
I have its slightly shorter brother. Great shooter.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:36:24 PM EDT
My 6" S&W 686 had about 100 fps over it's 4" Model 19 sibling the one time I chrono'd them.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:41:31 PM EDT
I had one many years ago. Nice piece.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:45:07 PM EDT
[drool]
nice weapon OP
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:51:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By inzane123:
I have its slightly shorter brother. Great shooter.



Yep, me too.

But no collection is complete without all barrel lengths, now is it?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:52:05 PM EDT
Square butt N frame Smiths rock!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:53:09 PM EDT
I love the model 27. I had a 5" barreled version that I shot the %#$@ out of years ago.

Ever see Miculek (sp?) do his stuff? He makes the 27 sound like a machine gun- he has surpassed Ed McGivern I believe. Really unreal shooting ability!

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:00:15 PM EDT
What kind of power could you get out of a rifle barrel?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:07:08 PM EDT
That is sweet O_P!!! I have a few shorter barreled .357's, but I have been looking for a deal on exactly what you found. Good find!

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:08:51 PM EDT


Beautiful...... Love me some old wheel guns
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:09:39 PM EDT
Very Nice piece O_P.

I'd like to get one to go with my 27-3 4 inch on of these days.

Danny
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:11:32 PM EDT
Nice wood.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:13:11 PM EDT
First handgun I ever shot was my dads 2.5" Mod 27.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:14:24 PM EDT
Very nice.



Here's a real 357 load to try in it;
125 gr Horn XTP and 22 grs of H110
www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/357mag.php


Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:14:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:14:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
First handgun I ever shot was my dads 2.5" Mod 27.



"And my ears are still ringing."
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:17:52 PM EDT
Ever see a 686 in matte finish ?

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:18:15 PM EDT


Nice weapon... what did it set you back..
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:18:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 2A373:
Very nice.

Here's a real 357 load to try in it;
125 gr Horn XTP and 22 grs of H110
www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/357mag.php




That sounds like a fine one.

I've had good luck with a 158 grain JHP or JSP, over 15.5 grains of AA-9.

(You sure don't have to look for a hole in the target to tell if the pistol went off. )
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:18:52 PM EDT
The S&W 27's just may be the greatest .357's in history...and that includes the Python.

Beautiful revolver...I'll be it's a tack-driver, too.

Good for you, O_P!

HH
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:19:35 PM EDT
Ya gonna take pics of that?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:20:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
very nice.

here's mine

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=27034



Very nice.

I bet that brake makes the leaves fall off the trees.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:20:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:21:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Ever see a 686 in matte finish ?

tacoma4x4.no-ip.com/AR15s/SW686.jpg



Nope, but I sure like it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:22:53 PM EDT
Are the pinned and recessed barrels desirable?
There's a model 29, 7 or 8 inch barrel, 44 for sale at a local gun shop. It's practically brand new, but the dealer said he'd take 500 cash (because it was a pinned and recessed model).

Anybody know?

It looks brand new, the dealer said that only two cylinders full had been through it. No cylinder shake and the trigger is absolutely awesome.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:23:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:25:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By 2A373:
Very nice.

Here's a real 357 load to try in it;
125 gr Horn XTP and 22 grs of H110
www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/357mag.php




That sounds like a fine one.

I've had good luck with a 158 grain JHP or JSP, over 15.5 grains of AA-9.

(You sure don't have to look for a hole in the target to tell if the pistol went off. )



You will defiantly know that this load went off. You should try it out of a 4" GP-100.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:27:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 1:28:31 PM EDT by Old_Painless]

Originally Posted By rob78:
Are the pinned and recessed barrels desirable?
There's a model 29, 7 or 8 inch barrel, 44 for sale at a local gun shop. It's practically brand new, but the dealer said he'd take 500 cash (because it was a pinned and recessed model).

Anybody know?

It looks brand new, the dealer said that only two cylinders full had been through it. No cylinder shake and the trigger is absolutely awesome.



In the original pistols, Smith pinned the barrels (to keep them from turning in the frame) and recessed the cylinders (to add a measure of strength to the cylinders). Smith later decided that these expensive additions were "unnecessary".

Some of us old guys like them though and are willing to pay a premium for them.

$500 for a mint S&W Model 29, P&R, is a good deal, if it is perfect and you want one.

You can get one at a gun show for $50 to $100 less, but they will usually show some wear.



Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:30:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 1:32:40 PM EDT by AlaskaJohn]


SP101 2.25in Barrel

Winchester 130g FMJ Q4171: 740 FPS Avg
Remington 158g SJHP R357M2: 1170 FPS Avg

ETA: This is my chronograph data.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:36:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
But no collection is complete without all barrel lengths, now is it?



Yep.

So what's missing from this picture?...





ANSWER: My old Model 27.

I sold it to a very good friend/neighbor who fell in love with it and have regretted that neighborly act ever since. I keep meaning to replace it, but keep buying other things instead...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:41:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HardShell:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
But no collection is complete without all barrel lengths, now is it?



Yep.

So what's missing from this picture?...


i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/HardShell/RWB%20-%20Handguns/SWrevolvers.jpg


ANSWER: My old Model 27.

I sold it to a very good friend/neighbor who fell in love with it and have regretted that neighborly act ever since. I keep meaning to replace it, but keep buying other things instead...



Don't worry about it.

We'll just keep working on our collections "till morning sweeps the Eastern sky".
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:01:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
home.gci.net/~johns/sp101.jpg

SP101 2.25in Barrel

Winchester 130g FMJ Q4171: 740 FPS Avg
Remington 158g SJHP R357M2: 1170 FPS Avg

ETA: This is my chronograph data.



I bet that would give a bear a headache.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:03:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:04:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
home.gci.net/~johns/sp101.jpg

SP101 2.25in Barrel

Winchester 130g FMJ Q4171: 740 FPS Avg
Remington 158g SJHP R357M2: 1170 FPS Avg

ETA: This is my chronograph data.



I bet that would give a bear a headache.



The revolvers are for the home.

This is for bear.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:16:23 PM EDT
I've got it's big brother. The mod. 57 in 6".
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:33:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:

The revolvers are for the home.

This is for bear.

home.gci.net/~johns/marlin_scout.jpg



That's more like it!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:38:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
Sweet!

I once owned an identical M27 that was (for me, at least) one of the three or four most accurate handguns I have ever fired...and I have shot a BUNCH of handguns. I made shots on a regular basis with that gun that I could not tell about here without being called a liar, but I will say that one fairly easy shot I used to make with it was a beer or soda can at 100yd. offhand...no rest... using Federal 158gr, JHPs. It was like taking candy from a baby!

Of course, I still had eyes and good reflexes back in them days!



Yep, I know what you mean.

I'm not exactly Elmer Keith, but I used to be able to hit targets at 100 yards with some regularity. It used to impress my shooting friends.

I was once shooting with some other policemen in a big ditch. We were off duty and just plinking. One of them shot at a cola can at about 125 yards against a dirt bank. He missed by a couple of feet and said, "Nobody can hit a can that far".

I laid down on my back, laid my 6 inch Colt Python against my leg and hit it the first shot.

He said, "If you ever see Don draw and lay down, you better get behind something!"
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:42:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
If any of you like big S&W revolvers, you will appreciate that most listed loads for a .357 Magnum are clocked out of a long barreled pistol. You can't really get true .357 Mag velocities out of a short barreled pistol.

I have owned long barreled .357's before, but foolishly sold my last one.

I saw one on consignment at the local gun shop, and after slobbering over it for a couple of months, made them an offer today.

Here it is:

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=41667

It is an old S&W Model 27-2, 8 3/8 inch barrel, pinned and recessed, and never fired.

I'll fix that "never fired" part tomorrow.

A beautiful pistol.



First the model 24, now this!

...... I really need one of those to.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:49:06 PM EDT
Still nothing like an old S&W N-frame.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:49:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
What kind of power could you get out of a rifle barrel?



158 grain Hornady FP/XTP over 18.0 grains of Lil' Gun:

4 inch 686 - 1,208 fps average, 512 foot pounds
18.5 inch 1894C - 1,867 fps average, 1,224 foot pounds

180 grain cast over 13.9 Lil' Gun:

686 - 1,137/517
1894C - 1,703/1,160

125 grain Remington JHP over 18.5 H110 (well under max):

686 - 1,161/374
1894C - 1,987/1,096

Buffalo Bore as some advertising speeds here. I've never clocked any of their stuff, but the advertised speed of their 158 grain offering in an 1894C makes 1,627 foot pounds.
www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:49:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By skid2964:

First the model 24, now this!

...... I really need one of those to.



Sure you do!

I still have a few in my list.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:58:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigdb1:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
What kind of power could you get out of a rifle barrel?



158 grain Hornady FP/XTP over 18.0 grains of Lil' Gun:

4 inch 686 - 1,208 fps average, 512 foot pounds
18.5 inch 1894C - 1,867 fps average, 1,224 foot pounds

180 grain cast over 13.9 Lil' Gun:

686 - 1,137/517
1894C - 1,703/1,160

125 grain Remington JHP over 18.5 H110 (well under max):

686 - 1,161/374
1894C - 1,987/1,096

Buffalo Bore as some advertising speeds here. I've never clocked any of their stuff, but the advertised speed of their 158 grain offering in an 1894C makes 1,627 foot pounds.
www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357



Some interesting data, bigdb1. Thanks.

But I would point out that a 55 grain bullet in an AR15 at 3300 fps gives 2418 fp of energy. And that is just a "standard" type load.

Don't get me wrong......I am not "bad mouthing" folks that like to shoot pistol rounds in a rifle.

But if I'm going to carry a rifle, I will shoot a "rifle" round in it.

Rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols. And a pistol round in a rifle will never be like a real rifle round.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:01:20 PM EDT
Damm that is one sweet M27 wish I could find one like that. Way back in 1978 I found a like new M28 "Highway Patrolman" with a 3 & 1/2" barrel, for $125. My brother in Law wanted it real bad so I sold it to him for the $125 with the intention that if he ever needs to sell it comes back to me. we then sent it t6o marker machine co. in southern IL. and had it black chromed for $60. OMG!! they had hard chromed the barrel, chambers, and action and the outer finish was the most beautifull black chrome finish you ever saw. TOO BAD THAT COMPANY IS NOLONGER IN BUSSINESS
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:07:42 PM EDT
NICE!!!

I had an 8 3/8th Model 27 .357 about 25 years ago. I sold it and have regretted it ever since. If I ever find a mint one, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:11:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:
NICE!!!

I had an 8 3/8th Model 27 .357 about 25 years ago. I sold it and have regretted it ever since. If I ever find a mint one, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.



I know where there's another one.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:21:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Some interesting data, bigdb1. Thanks.

But I would point out that a 55 grain bullet in an AR15 at 3300 fps gives 2418 fp of energy. And that is just a "standard" type load.

Don't get me wrong......I am not "bad mouthing" folks that like to shoot pistol rounds in a rifle.

But if I'm going to carry a rifle, I will shoot a "rifle" round in it.

Rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols. And a pistol round in a rifle will never be like a real rifle round.



Just answering the question asked by AmericanPatriot1776. We agree on the "rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols". What the pistol cartridge carbine does do is give you a fun to shoot centerfire with a straight wall case that loads fast, easy and cheap on a progressive. The 1894C is a great bum around, shoot all day rifle. Light and handy, decent magazine capacity, low cost ammo and light recoil even with full magnum loads. And if a deer should cross my path, I'd much rather shoot it with a 180 grain flat point at 1,703 fps than a 55 grain pill at 3,300.

You know, with the barrel on that new toy of yours, you aren't far from a carbine yourself.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:24:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigdb1:
...What the pistol cartridge carbine does do is give you a fun to shoot centerfire with a straight wall case that loads fast, easy and cheap on a progressive.



You bet!

I've owned a couple myself. They are a lots of fun.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:48:34 PM EDT

The 3.5" version...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:54:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:55:20 PM EDT
The old Smiths are so damn classy.


Nice find.
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