Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 8/22/2006 2:22:12 PM EDT
I watched "V for Vendetta" the other night.  In it, they use the saying, "A people should not fear the government.  The government should fear the people."  I noticed at least one ARFCOMMER is using that in their signature line.

The thing struck me the wrong way, as though I knew it was wrong, when I heard it.  It bothered me for a few days, especiually when I'd see the sig line of that member.  Then I realized what was wrong - it's the fear.

Fear is the province of tyrants and terrorists.

A government should not instill fear in its people.  If it does, there is something seriously wrong with that governement (or the people).  I do not fear my governement.

A people should not instill fear in thier government.  If they do, there is something seriously wrong with the people (or the government).  My government does not fear me.

We have a government here in the USA that is, "...of the people, by the people and for the people."  

Fear is not part of the equation.  It should not be part of the equation.  If it is, in either respect, SOMETHING IS WRONG.  Get it fixed but get it fixed without instilling fear.  
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:25:59 PM EDT
[#1]
OK, so let's put welfare to a vote. Let's put financial benefits for illegals to a vote.

The government is eight trillion dollars in debt. That scares me.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:26:50 PM EDT
[#2]
A government should fear the people because if they attempt to become tyrants, the people should destroy them.

Sounds right to me.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:28:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Consider the chior preached too.  I think ballot initiatives should be more commonly used too!
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:34:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Government rules at the consent of the people - damn straight they should be afraid of us!  
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:37:24 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
I watched "V for Vendetta" the other night.  In it, they use the saying, "A people should not fear the government.  The government should fear the people."  I noticed at least one ARFCOMMER is using that in their signature line.

The thing struck me the wrong way, as though I knew it was wrong, when I heard it.  It bothered me for a few days, especiually when I'd see the sig line of that member.  Then I realized what was wrong - it's the fear.

Fear is the province of tyrants and terrorists.

A government should not instill fear in its people.  If it does, there is something seriously wrong with that governement (or the people).  I do not fear my governement.

A people should not instill fear in thier government.  If they do, there is something seriously wrong with the people (or the government).  My government does not fear me.

We have a government here in the USA that is, "...of the people, by the people and for the people."  

Fear is not part of the equation.  It should not be part of the equation.  If it is, in either respect, SOMETHING IS WRONG.  Get it fixed but get it fixed without instilling fear.  


Comprehension.

Ever heard of 'God-fearing?'

It has little to so with actual fear or terror. More to do with a healthy respect and a knowledge of consequesnces.

A government should fear it's people. It should have a healthy respect, and a fear of being overturned, should it act out of line.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:41:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:48:36 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Consider the chior preached too.  I think ballot initiatives should be more commonly used too!
I'm not sure I like ballot initiatives, because they propose a plan which cannot be altered before the vote, even in response to perfectly valid objections to the details (not the main idea).
A few years ago, a light rail plan was voted down because it was too slow: the downtown speeds would be 15 mph and the intracity (south to north parts of town) speed would be 25 or 30 mph, IIRC.
It was either all or nothing.  The plans could not be revised to include higher speeds.  The vote was for "nothing".
The "all or nothing" part has me shaking my head. Who came up with that mandate?



National ballot initiatives could get done what the senate stands in the way of.  Just make rules clarifying at the time of the vote what is proposed and if possible give multiple votes on the issue so the public could vote the initiative up but strike down an unfavorable part.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:55:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Post reminds me of the recent evacuation of the capitol building. The pussies heard what they thought might be gunfire. Just some construction noise but they must feel guilty of something?!  
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:55:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:00:07 PM EDT
[#10]
The gov is already on the road to tyrany. Don't believe me? Just go to any child support agency in the country, if you're a male, and see how you get treated. Try to right a wrong they have done to you. See how far you get. Also, try to find out what governing authority oversees child support enforcement. Here, it's Dept of Economic Security, but try to find out what civil body they report to. Govenor's office, County assembly, State senate? You might just be surprised.

BTW, how much is a new Bushmaster AR in CA now? Oh, that's right. You can't get them why???? Did you get to vote on that law?

Just see the thread about tresspassing on private property and how that worked out for him.

See "eminent domain" and the latest USSC ruling.

I fear my gov, that's for sure. And there's not much I can do to stop it. They should, if not fear me, respect the hell out of me. And that is missing.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:00:32 PM EDT
[#11]
What a sad sad state our government is in today.  I am sure that many of our founding fathers are rolling in their grave.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:07:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Ahhh, I get it, so lawmakers who advocate gun control are trying to ease their fear?
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:12:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Never forget that ALL of the power of the State is excercised under threat of violence.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:12:44 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Consider the chior preached too.  I think ballot initiatives should be more commonly used too!
I'm not sure I like ballot initiatives, because they propose a plan which cannot be altered before the vote, even in response to perfectly valid objections to the details (not the main idea).
A few years ago, a light rail plan was voted down because it was too slow: the downtown speeds would be 15 mph and the intracity (south to north parts of town) speed would be 25 or 30 mph, IIRC.
It was either all or nothing.  The plans could not be revised to include higher speeds.  The vote was for "nothing".
The "all or nothing" part has me shaking my head. Who came up with that mandate?



National ballot initiatives could get done what the senate stands in the way of.  Just make rules clarifying at the time of the vote what is proposed and if possible give multiple votes on the issue so the public could vote the initiative up but strike down an unfavorable part.


Sorry man, but bad, bad, bad idea.  Just think - Ballot intiative to ban all guns.  50.1% of the vote carries the day.

This is just the thing the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and BOR to ensure we could not and would not do.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:14:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Um, I don't know about you, but I'd really prefer that our government feared us. They should. We are the people and the power is invested in us to keep them in line, and for them to guide us as a people and country. Neither are tyrants (at least in theory, practice is another thing entirely). We have the power to choose who gets the nice chair behind the desk, and if he fucks up, he is at our mercy. By all means, he/she SHOULD be afraid. He should fear what will happen to him if he does something immoral, illegal, or unconstitional. I know I would.


So, yes. Government fearing their citizens = good.

And V For Vendetta is a god damn awesome movie.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:18:46 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Um, I don't know about you, but I'd really prefer that our government feared us. They should. We are the people and the power is invested in us to keep them in line, and for them to guide us as a people and country. Neither are tyrants (at least in theory, practice is another thing entirely). We have the power to choose who gets the nice chair behind the desk, and if he fucks up, he is at our mercy. By all means, he/she SHOULD be afraid. He should fear what will happen to him if he does something immoral, illegal, or unconstitional. I know I would.


So, yes. Government fearing their citizens = good.

And V For Vendetta is a god damn awesome movie.


Of the People, By the People, For the People..........................

Any idea the document that came from?
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:20:30 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Consider the chior preached too.  I think ballot initiatives should be more commonly used too!
I'm not sure I like ballot initiatives, because they propose a plan which cannot be altered before the vote, even in response to perfectly valid objections to the details (not the main idea).
A few years ago, a light rail plan was voted down because it was too slow: the downtown speeds would be 15 mph and the intracity (south to north parts of town) speed would be 25 or 30 mph, IIRC.
It was either all or nothing.  The plans could not be revised to include higher speeds.  The vote was for "nothing".
The "all or nothing" part has me shaking my head. Who came up with that mandate?



National ballot initiatives could get done what the senate stands in the way of.  Just make rules clarifying at the time of the vote what is proposed and if possible give multiple votes on the issue so the public could vote the initiative up but strike down an unfavorable part.


Sorry man, but bad, bad, bad idea.  Just think - Ballot intiative to ban all guns.  50.1% of the vote carries the day.

This is just the thing the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and BOR to ensure we could not and would not do.


Bill of rights were intended to be beyond question, we all know how that worked out.  Also the founders intended a Republic, Lincoln took care of that.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:37:37 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Consider the chior preached too.  I think ballot initiatives should be more commonly used too!
I'm not sure I like ballot initiatives, because they propose a plan which cannot be altered before the vote, even in response to perfectly valid objections to the details (not the main idea).
A few years ago, a light rail plan was voted down because it was too slow: the downtown speeds would be 15 mph and the intracity (south to north parts of town) speed would be 25 or 30 mph, IIRC.
It was either all or nothing.  The plans could not be revised to include higher speeds.  The vote was for "nothing".
The "all or nothing" part has me shaking my head. Who came up with that mandate?



National ballot initiatives could get done what the senate stands in the way of.  Just make rules clarifying at the time of the vote what is proposed and if possible give multiple votes on the issue so the public could vote the initiative up but strike down an unfavorable part.


Sorry man, but bad, bad, bad idea.  Just think - Ballot intiative to ban all guns.  50.1% of the vote carries the day.

This is just the thing the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and BOR to ensure we could not and would not do.


Bill of rights were intended to be beyond question, we all know how that worked out.  Also the founders intended a Republic, Lincoln took care of that.


That is not the point.  Just because something is broken does not mean you put in a "fix" that will only make the problem worse.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:41:54 PM EDT
[#19]
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:43:08 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
What a sad sad state our government is in today.  I am sure that many of our founding fathers are rolling in their grave.



Probably fast enough to power the entire country if we hooked a generator up to them.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:51:09 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson



Yeah, But what did he know
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 3:59:13 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson



Yeah, But what did he know


Funny, that he's one of the guys that set up the frame work for our current federal government, you know the one you guys are complaining about...................
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:04:31 PM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
A government should fear the people because if they attempt to become tyrants, the people should destroy them.

Sounds right to me.


This government DOES fear its people.  That's why it is disarming us!
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:04:58 PM EDT
[#24]
History always repeats itself, and the time of revolution is approaching quickly. This is why the Gov. wants to disarm us. If the original revolutionaries had been weaponless - there would not have been a successful revolution. The factor that will present an extra danger to both sides this time are the outside forces that desire our complete erradication.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:05:17 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Consider the chior preached too.  I think ballot initiatives should be more commonly used too!
I'm not sure I like ballot initiatives, because they propose a plan which cannot be altered before the vote, even in response to perfectly valid objections to the details (not the main idea).
A few years ago, a light rail plan was voted down because it was too slow: the downtown speeds would be 15 mph and the intracity (south to north parts of town) speed would be 25 or 30 mph, IIRC.
It was either all or nothing.  The plans could not be revised to include higher speeds.  The vote was for "nothing".
The "all or nothing" part has me shaking my head. Who came up with that mandate?



National ballot initiatives could get done what the senate stands in the way of.  Just make rules clarifying at the time of the vote what is proposed and if possible give multiple votes on the issue so the public could vote the initiative up but strike down an unfavorable part.


Sorry man, but bad, bad, bad idea.  Just think - Ballot intiative to ban all guns.  50.1% of the vote carries the day.

This is just the thing the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and BOR to ensure we could not and would not do.


+1,000,000,000!!!!!!!!!

Philadelphia had a [non-binding] ballot initiative that read something like this:

"Do you support enacting reasonable, constitutional limits on firearm purchases in the city of Philadelphia"  (not a direct quote)

The initiative passed by a very large margin.  The majority of people are too stupid to make informed decisions.  This is exactly why the Constitution outlines the representative republic model for our .gov to follow.  States can still have ballot initiatives as long as it's legal to do so in their constitutions, but it definately would bea bad idea (and probably unconstitutional) at a national level.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:09:57 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson



Yeah, But what did he know


Funny, that he's one of the guys that set up the frame work for our current federal government, you know the one you guys are complaining about...................


Jefferson was the American Ambassador to France at the time of the Constitutional Convention and was not present for the debates, nor the ratification. He spent the better part of the rest of his life fighting hard against the Federalists, the men who DID get their way in the Convention. He was uncomfortable with the power the new Federal Government had.

Now that is funny.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:10:19 PM EDT
[#27]
this is the same question of fear versus love Machiavelli decided a long time ago
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:16:41 PM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson



AMEN !!!!

This is why I use the sig line he speaks of, have for a long while now and will forever.Sig line was done way before the movie  "V for Vendetta" was released. Thanks for makeing me popular !!!  
                         
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:46:05 PM EDT
[#29]
DoubleFeed,

It was two or three months ago. I believe it was in the Senate bld. parking lot if I recall correctly.

Power to the people; we have it in writing!  
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:04:50 PM EDT
[#30]
If you think our Government fears us then you are living in a dream-world. We are a joke to them. They know that the "People" won't stand up agianst them, a revolution if you will. They know that the HIGH majority of the population cares more about things like "TomKat's" baby, American Idol, ect.,ect., ect.. They know that they can do or take away pretty much whatever they want and "We" will say thank you sir, may I have another.


Was it Thomas Jefferson that said the People should overthrow the Government every twenty years to repeatedly remind them who's in charge? I'm not sure but I think it was.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top