We aren't Russia where you get to only vote one way. Here if you vote you get to choose. We don't do rubber stamps either.

Completely agree, and sort of my point.

Just because somebody opines on an issue, or offers their interpretation of a specific matter, does not mean they get a rubber stamp of credibility, just because somebody calls them as a “constitutional scholar”. Especially when it is painfully obvious they are wrong.

Nope, wrong again. The Constitution described what are and are not valid EC votes and because several states didn't follow the Constitutional process, those EC votes are facially invalid. This isn't a hard concept to master.

Neither this weak-assed rant nor the posting before it changes the relevant facts one iota. Several states chose to follow an unConstitutional process for selecting electors, violating their own election laws in some cases, and that makes the electors from those states facially invalid. It cannot be otherwise. If it were otherwise, we'd have a free-for-all process, not a Constitutional one.

I'm fresh out of crayons at this point.

Hence the second part of my comment. Prosecutions are needed.

It goes a little beyond that. Essentially, by stating the drop boxes were illegal, that by necessity indicates the "manner in which electors are chosen" was violated making Wisconsin's elector slate invalid along with their votes. Now do the other half dozen states doing the same.

LOL!!!!!!!!

Congress need not challenge anything. Certain electors from states who violated the Constitution were invalid making their EC votes invalid. Again, not a hard concept to master here.

Well, if you'd stop eating them, you wouldn't have that problem.

Cool. Except congress decides what EC votes are valid. Not you, me, nor the Vice President

Don't judge me.  Your homework assignment is to go read McPherson v. Blacker.

Got a guilty conscience?  Because I mentioned no one by name.  Do us all a favor and go find another thread to spam.

No, they don't. That's the point you steadfastly refuse to understand. Let me say this more slowly for you: The *Constitution* determines which electors and their votes are valid or not. Not following the Constitutionally defined process, by definition, makes those EC votes invalid prima facie. You don't have to like it, but you *do* have to understand it.

If the drop boxes were illegal then any votes that came from the drop boxes were fraudulent.   Fraud vitiates everything.

And yours is to go read the Constitution and why when the Constitutionally defined process is violated that makes the selection of electors and their votes prima facie invalid. Again, not a hard concept to master.

Even if someone were to claim it was done "unintentionally" and not deliberate fraud, it still makes Wisconsin's EC votes invalid.

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The constitution determines nothing. An inanimate object cannot make a determination. It defines a process, and guidelines. Congress makes the determination if that process or guidelines were followed.

Congress does not determine if a process is constitutional.  Try again.

When it comes to deciding the validity of electoral college votes they most certainly do.

Nvmd.

I should know better than to feed the re-re trolls

At this point its just round and round with

"Nuh uh" lol

Please stop feeding the

Attached File

Yeah, God forbid we actually have a conversation about the Constitution so people can get past some of these absurd beliefs about what it does or does not say.

I could just as easily label those with erroneous understandings of the applicable US code “trolls”, but just because 2 people disagree doesn’t mean one side or the other is trolling. Perhaps having conversations about something of such significance as this is actually a good thing?

Why are you laughing, you made a stupid fucking statement and are being called out on it.

And you have a stupid understanding of that statement.

Exactly. And, when the manner used does not comport with that which the legislatures may direct, that makes that selection invalid from a Constitutional process standpoint. It cannot be otherwise.

Yes, it does. Again, it is the basis of our Republic. Don't like it? Move to some other country. The process was either followed or it was not. It's a prima facie case. Congress needs to do precisely nothing.

No, they do not. Either the process followed what the Constitution laid out or it did not. Congress has no say in the matter.

You’re still wrong, but I’m sick of talking at a wall.

Stop being children.

I understand to you things are black and white. But the real world is gray.

That’s why 535 people vote on things that are…gasp….subjective.

So 535 people wolves voted on what’s for dinner…

At some point we’re going to need to start dealing with the truth and stop listening to these slick talking wolves.

Correct.

And also the places that violated election laws to prevent bi partisan observation of the vote. Should also have been decertified.

There were many dozens of congressmen and senators who had vowed to challenge the electoral votes from several states for a multitude of reasons.

But for some reason, after the temper tantrum those idiots threw at the Capitol on 6 Jan, those congress people changed their minds.

As mentioned several pages ago, the real tragedy behind the newly proposed electoral act legislation, is that it will become virtually impossible for EC votes to be objected upon if it passes.  The smoothbrains view this legislation as some sort of vindication of their false understanding of the VP’s role in things, while the tyrants in congress slide this right under their nose.

THREAD DERAILED

Hmm so you're saying they had motive to use national intelligence resources to incite a riot and allow it to breach the capital building.

Who'd of thunk it.

Maybe one day they will tell us who planted those pipe bombs too.

Troll train derailed this MF bigly.

Nah, it requires a majority vote in both houses to overturn the EC vote of a given state, which was never going to happen. And the congressmen vowing to object were mostly doing it to pander to their constituents anyway. That said, it would have at least provided a forum for debate, and forced each representative to go on the record.

Which is why the left went Leroy Jenkins on J6? Once they started bringing that up it probably would have opened a can of worms?

Or lead the charge I should say

Happens every time.

Same people argue with them instead of ignoring them every time.

Almost makes me wonder if they are a team.

My bad.

I get tired of nonsense being spouted.

Back to Arizona news.

Interesting method of ballot manipulation



https://mbernhard.com/papers/unclearballot.pdf

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/08/video-election-hack-identified-can-instantaneously-swap-votes-ballot-even-stored/

Election Hack Identified that Can Instantaneously Swap Votes on a Ballot Before It Is Even Stored

There’s an election hack built before the 2020 election that can instantaneously swap the bubbles on your ballot. The “filled in” bubble of your candidate is moved to the hackers’ preferred candidate and swapped out with that empty bubble. The change is made before the “ballot Image” is stored on the election server and before it’s tabulated. By using the voter’s own marking style & penmanship, these changes are undetectable to the human eye.

Here’s the scenario. Using a blue pen you fill in the “Trump” bubble on a ballot. Election officials insert this ballot into a tabulator. Those pixels surrounding the Trump bubble are swapped in milliseconds with the empty Biden bubble pixels. After these changes are made, the ballot image is saved to the EMS, and the candidate selections update the election totals. If an election jurisdiction uses their digital “Ballot Images” to conduct an audit, they WILL NOT find these changed ballots.

Gateway Pundit created the below animation to provide a visual of how this election attack works (or view here). Any real election attack using this method has no visual component. It operates behind the scenes, completely hidden.



To conduct this type of an election attack, bad actors just need a sample ballot. These are published well ahead of all elections. The sample ballot is used to locate the exact bubble positions. The ballot is segmented into a grid or “bounding boxes“. Vertical and horizontal lines sweep the ballot to precisely locate the targeted candidate’s bubbles. Bounding boxes are made around each bubble. Extra white space is added around the bubbles to account for penmanship that strays outside the bubble. This becomes the template for that election. The pixels inside these boxes are what they swap.

Prior to the election, the attacker specifies the template, which races they want to affect (Pres, Senate, etc), and by how much. While ballots are being scanned, this malicious software keeps a running tally of the “real” ballot results. Ballot images are changed on the fly to achieve the desired election outcome. To avoid detection, attackers can specify just enough manipulated images to win the race, but not by alarming amounts. The only way to catch this hack is to compare the original paper ballot to the ballot image.

Awhile back two University of Michigan students successfully wrote this malicious software using only 398 lines of code. Their “Automated Ballot Manipulation” video and 18 page whitepaper show the details. Undergrad Jeremy Wink and grad student Kart Kandula developed it while at UofM’s Security Lab. They were under the supervision of election expert J. Alex Halderman. Using the voters’ own handwriting markings to alter ballots is a truly devious approach. Depending on the computer, the entire process takes about 40 milliseconds (.04 seconds). It leaves no image artifacts behind, so the changes are undetectable.

The students tested it against EAC-certified scanners. They also tested it against all six different ballot styles used in America. These come from manufacturers Dominion, ES&S, Clear Ballot, Diebold, and two styles from Hart InterCivic. The ballot styles for Dominion machines were the easiest to change. The Hart eScan ballots were the most difficult. The software can move all shapes used on election ballots including bubbles, circles, boxes, rectangles, ovals, etc.

This sophisticated software algorithm scores and rates the marked bubbles as Sensed, Ignored, or Marginal. Some voters might make excessive scribbles or stray into the letters of a candidate’s name. If the pixel area can’t be perfectly swapped leaving no artifacts, the algorithm skips that ballot and moves on to the next one. Configuring the software settings very high, so it leaves no trace evidence, they were able to change votes on at least 50% of all ballots.

To illustrate an illegal election operation the two men created an attack package called “UnclearBallot”. They disguised the attack by inserting malicious code into the “Windows Driver” that allows the scanners to communicate with the election system. They created a “microdriver” that essentially “wraps” around the original driver. This is what changes the ballots. But their malicious software can run in any environment. It doesn’t have to be a driver. It can be rewritten for a machine’s firmware, installed on an Election Management Server (EMS), and so on.

They simulated an attack using 181,541 completed paper ballots from Clackamas County. Oregon. They changed the results of ballot proposition. UnclearBallot was configured to only modify marks with a “high confidence” the alteration would not be noticeable. They were able to alter 62,400 ballot images, which is 34%. Afterwards, they selected 1,000 altered ballots at random for examination. Human auditors could NOT detect any evidence of ballot manipulation. Had they lowered the “confidence” settings, they could have changed 89% of the ballots. Only 11% were rejected, had no chance of changes.

What’s most alarming is that Matthew Bernhard was involved, a Research Engineer at the hard left Voting Works. The Center For Democracy and Technology (CDT) created Voting Works, spun it out in 2018. CDT’s major donors are the Soros Open Society, Ford Foundation, MacArthur Foundation, Google, Facebook, Amazon. Others involved in this election project were Chinese speakers Henry Meng, Jensen Hwa, and Kevin Chang. In 2019 CISA and DHS partnered with Voting Works to push their bogus Risk Limiting Audits into many States before the 2020 election. It’s now used by 10 States. Voting Works has been an obnoxious proponent of mail-in ballots.

Students Jeremy and Kart noted there are technologies available that can detect this type of image manipulation on ballots. However, they were unable to find one election jurisdiction using any of this technology. Their team also suspects it would become an arms race. When the software that detects “image manipulation” advances, attackers will obtain it, and alter their malicious code to defeat it.

NOTE: A “driver” allows an external device like a printer or scanner to communicate with the operating system. The driver is the first thing the external device talks to. In a nutshell, the data flows from a scanner, to the driver, to the OS, and then to the hard drive. By putting the malicious code at the very beginning of this flow, it can change ballots before the OS even knows about it. The ballot bubbles are changed before the “Ballot Image” gets stored on the election server.

"....It leaves no image artifacts behind, so the changes are undetectable."

Good luck getting anywhere with this.

Election was stolen and they got away with it.

The paper ballot is the artifact.

those are all about to be destroyed, and election officials have a stunning lack of interest in looking at them or keeping them any longer

Good thing CyberNinjas did a hand count of all the Maricopa County ballots and found those extra Biden votes.