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Posted: 9/13/2004 4:01:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:04:23 PM EST by M4]
Yes, I know there are a few exceptions, though nothing really all that impressive, as far as the major AR makers go regarding newly legal configurations.

Am I missing something here? There's been so much hype regarding this for YEARS, and once the day finally arrives, the silence from MOST major AR makers is deafening.

Colt - Nothing (no surprise)

Bushmaster - Nothing of substance, though I believe they have intentions, still very quiet.

Armalite - Nothing

Knights - Nothing

You get the point.

Granted, there's a good chance I've missed something, am jumping the gun so to speak since it's the first day, or just don't understand the arms makers thought process. Possibly, they aren't in any rush due to the up coming elections, which could ultimately reverse the sunset of the AWB. Even so, I just don't see the reasoning. Frankly, I'm very disappointed that the sunsetting of the AWB has been met with such a luke warm response (at best) from our major AR companies.

I'm not ragging on them....yet. I'm just quite surprised at the apparent total lack of communication and published intentions of these companies. We're not talking about something illegal, or even boarderline here. We're talking about a very clear destinction between 09/12 and 09/13 in terms of what is now FULLY legal (in most states).

Anyone care to enlighten me as to why this appears to be the case? It's not as though this whole thing snuck up on them. It's been on the horizon for a long time, and it's not as though the new law, or lack of requires ANY retooling of operations for any of them. They've been making these weapons all along for the LEO's.

Again, please spare me the "you uninformed, ungrateful bastard" replies. I'm honestly just asking a question I can find no good answer for. I'd like to hear your thoughts. If I'm wrong, thank god....just point me in the direction of proof that I'm wrong....that's all I ask. If I have a point, go ahead and venture a guess, or enlighten me as to why this is the case.

Over & out.

M4
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:02:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:02:51 PM EST by Lockedon]
wasn't armalite supposed to give all their customers a free flash suppressor after the AWB sunset?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:05:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:06:49 PM EST
I believe they are trying to draw as little attention as possible.

The more they advertise, the more we have to hear from the Brady bunch: "SEE SEE!!!, they are marketing these evil features to criminals and terrorists... they have just been waiting for this ban to expire so they can put these guns back into the hands of criminals!!!"


They are playing it smart.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:07:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
wasn't armalite supposed to give all their customers a free flash suppressor after the AWB sunset?



No clue about that. What I'm more concerned with is giving the law abiding public the option and resources to purchase what has been denied them for a decade....complete rifles with the senselessly banned features some of us have been waiting years to buy at fair market value.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:08:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
I believe they are trying to draw as little attention as possible.

The more they advertise, the more we have to hear from the Brady bunch: "SEE SEE!!!, they are marketing these evil features to criminals and terrorists... they have just been waiting for this ban to expire so they can put these guns back into the hands of criminals!!!"


They are playing it smart.




Yeah, not everyone can be Vulcan Arms and sell the "Weapons of Special Forces!!!"

Not even the folks that really make them
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:08:53 PM EST
They are in mourning.

R.I.P. AWB

Colt_SBR

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:10:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:13:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:16:16 PM EST by M4]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
WTF? what do you want? Almost every configuration imaginable was available before the ban set with preban lowers. Now everything. most don't advertise special setups but anyone will make you damn near anything you want.

That is one problem with the AR platform. There are so many variations no manufacturer is going to list them all in a catalog.

mike



A) I want it at LEAST mentioned in their product line, as ALL other configurations currently are. No harm in that, it's now LEGAL.

B) These are NOT special set ups. These are simply newly legal variations of AR's.

C) I realize there are a huge variety of configurations. However, the sunsetting of a decade long, prohibative law against the publics freedoms might be worth addressing, even if only to say " The published rifles are now ALL available w/ colapsable stocks, bayo lugs..et al, if your state allows such features as a result of the AWB sunsetting." Is addressing this, even with a paragraph or two asking too much? Please.


Edited to add: Sorry if I don't subscribe to the "rubbing their noses in it/low profile theory or school of thought. These are our RIGHTS. They were taken away, and now they're back. As illegal as it was to violate these laws, it's now EVERY bit as LEGAL to embrace their absence.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:14:12 PM EST
I thought I saw that Westrom had appeared on one of the talking head shows today.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:16:21 PM EST
Robinson Armament's site stated they will have new black goodies as of midnight. Alot of the others are waiting until 9-14 & 9-15 because they are paranoid. Bushmaster 's site still has 94 AWB info on no ban upper(s) & collaspible stocks.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:19:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:20:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:20:05 PM EST
IMO all the AR manufacturers are PC these days especially in light of BM paying $ out to "victims" families. I dont think any of them want any focus drawn to them at this time while the AWB is a hot news item.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:22:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:25:18 PM EST by M4]
I certainly hope w/in the next few days to a week, this subject is addressed publicly by our AR makers. I just don't see any good reason why they wouldn't.

It doesn't have to be the entire front of their web pages, or full page adds in magazines....just something, somewhere stating that this newly available freedom will be represented in future offerings on a retail level to law abiding people.

Again, I am NOT ripping on them, simply asking a question that I see no good answer for. They have and will continue to have my support...and frankly I shouldn't even feel compelled to state that, but there's always a group around here hungry to gang bang anyone who dares question the reasoning of Americas arms makers. As I stated in my original post, there may be a good reason...I just have no idea what that is, and am asking for your thoughts, not your arm chair condemnation.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:23:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By crowboy:
IMO all the AR manufacturers are PC these days especially in light of BM paying $ out to "victims" families. I dont think any of them want any focus drawn to them at this time while the AWB is a hot news item.



Most reasonable answer so far. I can see the point.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:23:28 PM EST
Pride goeth before destruction.
Keeping under the radar.
Work quietly yet effectively.
Looking ahead to possibly Kerry as Pres., with AWB Act II.
Sometimes, if not most, it's best not to beat your chest like a proud fool.

Like shotar said, don't rub their face in it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:28:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:33:13 PM EST by Dave_A]
What do you want guys?

Everything that was banned is available, since they never stopped making any of it...

SteyrAUG is selling LEO Colt rifles...

What do you expect?

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:32:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
What do you want guys?

Everything that was banned is available...

SteyrAUG is selling LEO Colt rifles...

What do you expect?




Oh really? Where has Colt stated that these will be marketed to the public? The rifles being sold were not made with you and I in mind. The roll marks on the mag well should explain that pretty clearly. Am I happy S.A. can offer them? Hell yeah I am....but you're missing my point entirely.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:33:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:33:41 PM EST by RED_5]
on a side note, I got an email from SIG arms that 'regular' capacity mags are now avalible, and even though they say ~ "LE only" you can have them due to the blah blah blah :)

and I'm on the mailing list of several mfg who are now basicly unrestricted by stupid illegal laws, and this is the only email I've received.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:39:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By RED_5:
on a side note, I got an email from SIG arms that 'regular' capacity mags are now avalible, and even though they say ~ "LE only" you can have them due to the blah blah blah :)

and I'm on the mailing list of several mfg who are now basicly unrestricted by stupid illegal laws, and this is the only email I've received.



That's a side note worth mentioning, and a good start. With the certainty of the sunset being rather vague long term....I don't see a whole lot of time to be walking on egg shells in fear of "public outcry". Yeah, a cautious approach to the subject is wise, especially due to the above mentioned reasoning from Bushmaster among others, but we've seen a LOT more freedoms taken away than given back. The AWB sunset is by no means an exception to this, may be short lived and worth acting on with what little time it may be the status quo.

I don't claim to know to proper and most effective marketing/sales approach to this....but some signs of life would make me feel a little better.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:42:04 PM EST
Armalite has been fairly vocal since November regarding their desire to meet our needs and wishes.

They ran large ads in gun publications promising to give free flash suppressors to anyone buying a new rifle this year, and they are doing it. They also came under the scrutiny of the antis a few months ago for their efforts.

They politely told the antis to shove off.


You can buy any configuration you want. What else do you need? Full page ads in the New York Times thumbing their nose at Finestein?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:43:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
The smart money says, STFU and enjoy what you got instead of rubbing it in the face of those who will try to take it away.



+1
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:50:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 4:50:59 PM EST by RAMBOSKY]
I heard that all the AR makers are going out tonight and get drunk. Maybe tomorrow you will hear something from them.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:54:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Armalite has been fairly vocal since November regarding their desire to meet our needs and wishes.



And I'm thrilled...where are the complete rifles?


Originally Posted By AR-10:They ran large ads in gun publications promising to give free flash suppressors to anyone buying a new rifle this year, and they are doing it. They also came under the scrutiny of the antis a few months ago for their efforts.


Super...where are the complete rifles?


Originally Posted By AR-10:You can buy any configuration you want. What else do you need? Full page ads in the New York Times thumbing their nose at Finestein?


If you read my posts, you'd have known such a statement is moronic, to you and me both. I am looking for the acknowlegement of the freedom to buy COMPLETE rifles in their newly legal configurations. It is legal, they have been making them all along, and now the law abiding public can buy new ones as well. I am simply asking why this appears to have been ignored so far.

I can wait for the turn around in thought from these companies. All I am saying...let me repeat that....ALL I am saying is that an acknowledgement of this would be the right thing to do, even if it's a blip on their web pages.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:54:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
The smart money says, STFU and enjoy what you got instead of rubbing it in the face of those who will try to take it away.




+1
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:04:06 PM EST
The companies you listed, with the exception of Colt, have all the "Fully Evil" rifles you desire sitting around right now. Why are they not at your local shop? Because the local shop dealer did not order them.

The Bastards.

What sort of big announcements are you expecting to see on Bushmaster's or Armalite's website?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:04:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 5:10:49 PM EST by M4]

Originally Posted By shotar:
The smart money says, STFU and enjoy what you got instead of rubbing it in the face of those who will try to take it away.



As though those who would want to take it away are unaware of this AWB thing? As if NO MATTER what approach is taken, they will remain relentless in taking our rights away with every core of their being? Shutting the fuck up didn't get us to where we are on 09/13/04.

There's a fine line in taking the smart cautious road, and being a pussy. I'll vote for the smart cautious road, and embrace what the anti's have stepped on for 10 years being ERASED completely. You can make new rifles available and let the public know, in measured, small doses without living in fear of the anti reaction. It does not have to amount to rubbing anyones nose in it. It's a matter of well fought principle, and we won. Forgive me for having grown tired of the anti-egg shell dance I've been forced to do for a decade. What I am asking about is minimal...and IMO by no means asking to much.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:08:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By devildoghdj:
Robinson Armament's site stated they will have new black goodies as of midnight. Alot of the others are waiting until 9-14 & 9-15 because they are paranoid. Bushmaster 's site still has 94 AWB info on no ban upper(s) & collaspible stocks.




I know who I will be calling tommorow, My vepr is gettin a changin
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:09:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 5:15:00 PM EST by M4]

Originally Posted By AR-10:
What sort of big announcements are you expecting to see on Bushmaster's or Armalite's website?



A 2 sentence statement indicating complete post-AWB rifles being available where legal. Statements about the former illegalities of certain configurations were readily published. Is the opposite so terrifying? No huge graphics, no full page NY Times ad, just an acknowledgement on eaches respective web pages. Hell, I wouldn't even care if they had no pics of the rifles, or even price lists....just a simple statement and phone orders. Is that rubbing anyones nose in it? Not in my book. It's basic stuff....very basic...and understated....which seems appropriate to me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:18:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
The smart money says, STFU and enjoy what you got instead of rubbing it in the face of those who will try to take it away.



10-4 on that
No sense in giving the Brady bunch examples of Gun Lust to point to. Everyone to whom the AWB sunset is important to, already know about it.

Pinetop
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:39:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
I believe they are trying to draw as little attention as possible.

The more they advertise, the more we have to hear from the Brady bunch: "SEE SEE!!!, they are marketing these evil features to criminals and terrorists... they have just been waiting for this ban to expire so they can put these guns back into the hands of criminals!!!"


They are playing it smart.



I agree. WE know what we can buy, and THEY know, but the average idiot is looking for a site that says "NOW AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC!! FULLY AUTOMATIC EVIL HIGH CAPACITY BABY KILLERS!! U GOT ID? U GOT A DEAL!".
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:58:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By SNorman:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
I believe they are trying to draw as little attention as possible.

The more they advertise, the more we have to hear from the Brady bunch: "SEE SEE!!!, they are marketing these evil features to criminals and terrorists... they have just been waiting for this ban to expire so they can put these guns back into the hands of criminals!!!"


They are playing it smart.



I agree. WE know what we can buy, and THEY know, but the average idiot is looking for a site that says "NOW AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC!! FULLY AUTOMATIC EVIL HIGH CAPACITY BABY KILLERS!! U GOT ID? U GOT A DEAL!".



That is such a gross, over the top, knee-jerk reaction in comparison to what I suggested.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:09:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pinetop:

Originally Posted By shotar:
The smart money says, STFU and enjoy what you got instead of rubbing it in the face of those who will try to take it away.



10-4 on that
No sense in giving the Brady bunch examples of Gun Lust to point to. Everyone to whom the AWB sunset is important to, already know about it.

Pinetop



A simple statement by firearms makers translates to " examples of gun lust"? Jesus, some of you guys live in absolute terror of the anti reaction. If you think for one second that a few sentences posted on an AR company's web page would create ANY reaction beyond what they're already planning, you're kidding yourself.

I can completely understand letting the news of the AWB deal relaxing a bit before providing statements for retail options to consumers, but to say nothing, to not publish post-AWB complete rifle options is rediculous. Like I said, publishing illegalities of rifles during the AWB is responsible, however publishing, responsibly, intelligently, rifle options legally available AFTER the AWB translates in to some sort of potential crisis? Man, they have won to a large extent. They've got a lot of you groomed to fear them & their reaction. It's a time to celebrate, not duck & hide.

It's is our RIGHT fellas. Try to keep that in mind.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:17:13 PM EST
ARmalite(whats his name?) was on CNN and he said he will be retrofitting ALL rifles to pre neutered status
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:21:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
The smart money says, STFU and enjoy what you got instead of rubbing it in the face of those who will try to take it away.



sounds just like well trained sheeple...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:22:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
What do you want guys?

Everything that was banned is available, since they never stopped making any of it...

SteyrAUG is selling LEO Colt rifles...

What do you expect?



A big HIP HIP HOORAH!
That is what I expect!

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:24:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By superdav:
ARmalite(whats his name?) was on CNN and he said he will be retrofitting ALL rifles to pre neutered status



Didn't see that, but sure is nice not everyone lives in terror of the anti reaction. Especially coming from a decision maker in the industry. Glad some around here aren't running that show, or we'd have little indication the AWB ever sunsetted at all.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:30:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
wasn't armalite supposed to give all their customers a free flash suppressor after the AWB sunset?



I got yeo Flash Suppressors from ArmaLite for the two M15A2's I bought from them, and they are now installed
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:07:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
wasn't armalite supposed to give all their customers a free flash suppressor after the AWB sunset?



I got yeo Flash Suppressors from ArmaLite for the two M15A2's I bought from them, and they are now installed



How did you get them? Did they just mail them to all people who they knew registered a desire for them through Armalite?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:15:12 AM EST
Check out the bushmaster website now.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:20:35 AM EST
Bushmaster is now listing a 16" M4 and a 16" Carbine (standard barrel), both with 6 (?) position stock, bayonet lug and A2 flash hider.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:22:31 AM EST
Bushmasters site is back up and on their frontpage they say they will now sell to anyone since the ban is dead. I'm not all that impressed with their prices though.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:25:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4:
The roll marks on the mag well should explain that pretty clearly. Am I happy S.A. can offer them? Hell yeah I am....but you're missing my point entirely.


I think you aren't taking into account that those markings will continue to be there for sales in states like NY with state level bans. The markings have nothing to do with the manufacturers willingness to sell you a rifle ina pre-1994 configuration.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:28:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By SNorman:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
I believe they are trying to draw as little attention as possible.

The more they advertise, the more we have to hear from the Brady bunch: "SEE SEE!!!, they are marketing these evil features to criminals and terrorists... they have just been waiting for this ban to expire so they can put these guns back into the hands of criminals!!!"


They are playing it smart.



I agree. WE know what we can buy, and THEY know, but the average idiot is looking for a site that says "NOW AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC!! FULLY AUTOMATIC EVIL HIGH CAPACITY BABY KILLERS!! U GOT ID? U GOT A DEAL!".



That is such a gross, over the top, knee-jerk reaction in comparison to what I suggested.



There were, however, ads for various guns that got used against the manufacturers in court later; the manufacturers will be very cautious how they advertise their products, esp with the anti's already saying that the manufacturers are only interested in dealing in instruments of mass murder.
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