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Posted: 11/1/2001 9:28:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2001 10:25:56 PM EDT by dissipator556]
As a 1L, I am trying to network with other pro-2nd Amendment folks in my profession. Oneshot's post has prompted me to do this here, and I was thinking that we could get some sort of a legal assistance list started for this board. Let me know what you think about this idea- I look forward to talking with you guys. -Rich
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 9:37:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2001 4:26:49 AM EDT by dissipator556]
Mods, could this please be tacked for a week or two- I believe we could get something very beneficial from it if enough lawyers/law students read this. Thanks. -Rich
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 10:20:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dissipator556: As a 1L, I am trying to network with other pro-2nd Amendment folks in my profession. Oneshot's post has prompted me to do this here, and I was thinking that we could get some sort of a legal assistance list started for this board. Let me know what you think about this idea- I look forward to talking with you guys. -Rich
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Where you go to Law School in Flroida? Hope you got into the good one - UF ;)
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 10:25:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2001 10:23:35 PM EDT by dissipator556]
ha! I'm at Stetson (you know, the oldest one)[;)] I was thinking we could list suitable attorney's, organized by region and/or state. After reading OneShotOneKill's nightmare post, everyone should have at least one good pro-gun attorney in their personal phonebook. I'm out for the night after this one, I'll be on tommorrow to see how this is going.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 12:29:09 AM EDT
dissipator556 This sounds like a good idea. Tell me more of how your 'plan' would work? would it be just a forum for legal advice from members who are lawyers/law students? or would it be some strange pay thing to keep your advice on retainer? Gracias
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 2:25:04 AM EDT
I've been practicing law for 22 years and the amount of gun laws with which I'm [u]unfamiliar[/u] would fill a library! And what's even more strange about this situation, is that I'm an FFL holder as well. So I'm even unfamiliar with the laws that affect my own livelihood. The only lawyer that I know who seems competent in laws pertaining to firearms is a Fort Worth attorney by the name of Basil St. Clair. Maybe I should dedicate some of my time to get acquainted with the laws that affect us in so many ways? Eric The(Naw,I'llJustHireSt.Clair[:D])Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 4:16:57 AM EDT
Ruckus, The proposed "AR-15.Com Legal Network" could be used for some minor legal questions, but the real purpose would be to help our members locate good pro-gun counsel. Unfortunately, no lawyer is going to write that sort of thing in the yellow pages, so we need to help each other out. I, for one, would feel more comfortable knowing that I have access to such a service. -Rich
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 4:49:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2001 4:44:17 AM EDT by Happyshooter]
With the new CCW law in Michigan, I had some indexed copies of the Michigan gun laws, based on the state printed copy under the new law, made and passed some out and put one in the library at the firm. We have some sports shops as clients, so it is somewhat client related. I was going to do the same with the federal gun laws, but the laws and regs are so huge, and the raw crap like the court cases making things in the same building legally one thing and assembeled, just would be too much. I do civil stuff, we do very little criminal outside corporate white collar. I'm not sure how helpful I would be. I don't know any pro-gun criminal lawyers, the pro 2As I know are civil too.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 5:02:21 AM EDT
HappyShooter raises an interesting topic- do we list criminal lawyers only or should we also include civil lawyers? I think both would be helpful, personally. P.S.- Anyone who frequents the other boards (I don't), please feel free to post a similar topic over there. Perhaps we could pool all of those resources- that would be incredible.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 5:06:25 AM EDT
Criminal defense, northern Arizona. Licensed in federal court, although I've only been there once in seven years of practice. So I am no more familiar with federal gun laws than *most* of you, but I at least know where to look. As you might imagine, I am pro-2A. Presently defending someone charged with murder for a defensive shooting. So I am "in" for your network, with all standard disclaimers, particularly for people not fortunate enough to live in AZ. I am, for instance, only qualified to say to our California friends, "Gee you had a gun in California? They'll find you guiltier than hell." Oh yeah, and I was once *arrested* in California for allegedly violating one of their stupid gun laws many years ago. But that's another story. Getting advice from some guy on the Internet, even if he is an attorney, is not the same as sitting down face to face and going through all the details. But for those of you with no alternatives, it's better than nothing.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 6:16:24 AM EDT
Well, you can count me in, though like some of the others, I'm not sure how helpful I'd be. While I have a personal interest in the law as it pertains to NFA weapons, what I don't know would fill volumes, and with regard to the gun laws in NY, I know almost nothing...other than they don't allow NFA weapons...especially where I am (NYC). I am not sure, but I believe the NRA maintains a list of member lawyers. However, if you're looking for a lawyer to get you out of a serious criminal problem, I would be less concerned with their personal views on the 2nd Amendment than I would be on their education, experience, and ability. Sure I'd like to keep the dollars flowing to the good guys, but if someone is facing a possible felony, there are larger issues at stake (like making sure they get off the hook).
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 8:05:52 AM EDT
I suspect that Dissipator was trying to set up a list of attorneys for the average boardmember's benefit. The 'local' or 'regional' attorney can give general advice, or more importantly, refer the board member to local attorneys that can help them. I do get lots of legal questions, and for whatever I cannot help them with, I will try to find them someone who can, and hopefully one with a good reputation. Las Vegas, NV, where i practice, is still a small legal market, and reputations are still worth something. The criminal defense bar is pretty small as well, so DAs and Defense attorneys can still deal on their word. With that said, Dissipator, I think you have a great idea, and I would love to participate. Practice areas: general criminal law, DUI defense, civil, OCCASIONAL domestic cases (damn, i hate those!).
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 8:57:42 AM EDT
I too wouldn't be much help in terms of an attorney in this area (I do M&A work) but I do know the PA and federal gunlaws fairly well. I found that the NRA is a good resource to find a pro-gun attorney in your local area. Justin
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 12:33:15 PM EDT
I'm a 3L and would love to be on the list... I proposed something similar long ago... Semper Fi!
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 1:36:04 PM EDT
Just lawyers??? Or can CPA's play???? With all the money you guys make, you need SOMEONE to count it!!!!
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 6:31:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2001 6:27:11 PM EDT by dissipator556]
I would like to see the list posted (in the "legal" section of the forum), with suggested lawyers for each state. The list would be tacked at the top, much like the "Mag FAQ" is in the "Magazines" section of the forum. Once enough people respond to this thread I will begin a mass email, and from that I will begin the list. Here's what I would include on the list: State, City, Name, Area of Specialty, Contact Info Any more suggestions for this?
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 8:09:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 11:01:01 PM EDT
William & Mary (THE oldest law school in the country) 2L reporting for duty. Wait till you guys see the note I'm writing for the law review...you'll love it. :)
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:01:58 PM EDT
I [i][b]will[/b][/i] be going to law school in Fall 2002. So, although I'm not officially in yet, I'm interested. [:)] Hey, any advice for good schools? I've got my list narrowed down, but I'm curious about what y'all have to say. Thanks, Mike
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 12:46:25 PM EDT
I'm in the process of applying to law schools as we speak (just took the lsat about a month ago.)
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:41:18 PM EDT
In order to advise you, what are your undergrad GPA, LSAT, and race? The general rule is go to the very highest ranked you can get into if you ever want to work at a firm or for the government in a good g-job.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:33:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 6:28:46 PM EDT by AnotherPundit]
LSAT is 162 / 88th percentile, but I f*cked the logic games section (I'd practiced them some, but not enough). I should be able to get significantly higher with a december retake (My GRE verbal was 99th percentile, back when I thought I was going into academia.) Undergraduate GPA was 2.98, but was from Davidson College, which is fairly highly ranked, and which has *zero* grade inflation. Some schools (southern ones, mostly, since Davidson is southern) will account for that, and give a significant boost to how they "count" the GPA, but others won't. So for now, I'm applying to Emory and William & Mary law, and probably going to try for a reach go at UNC-Chapel Hill since I have some friends there. Also probably apply to University of South Carolina law, as my backup, but I'm pretty sure I can get in somewhere better. I'll see how it goes. If I don't get in anywhere super-fancy, oh well. . I'll do something else. (Been doing on-again, off-again work for the past year as a freelance writer, and running my website at www.anotherpundit.com ; just feel it's time to learn an actual, regular trade.)
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:03:08 AM EDT
Undergraduate GPA was 2.98, but was from Davidson College, which is fairly highly ranked, and which has *zero* grade inflation. Some schools (southern ones, mostly, since Davidson is southern) will account for that, and give a significant boost to how they "count" the GPA, but others won't. So for now, I'm applying to Emory and William & Mary law, and probably going to try for a reach go at UNC-Chapel Hill since I have some friends there. Also probably apply to University of South Carolina law, as my backup, but I'm pretty sure I can get in somewhere better.
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I'm a 2L at W&M and was admitted to UNC-CH, and I also know some Davidson alums here and elswhere. Drop me an email if you want to visit W&M...I'll give you the no BS tour and bring your guns...we'll go to the range!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:37:05 AM EDT
Assuming you are white, I don't think you can bust into the big 14. Is there any chance of amerind or hispanic blood somewhere? If not, I would say go for it, but also apply at the next tier and take the best ranked admission.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:53:35 AM EDT
I just finished law school, it sucked, don't do it unless you really want to
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 7:21:24 AM EDT
Geez Avtomat. When I finished law school I thought it sucked, OTOH it wasn't *that* bad and my income is now about three times what it was. I am sure it is a lot easier than med school!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 11:13:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: In order to advise you, what are your undergrad GPA, LSAT, and race? The general rule is go to the very highest ranked you can get into if you ever want to work at a firm or for the government in a good g-job.
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Care to do another job at guess-timation for an aspiring law student? 158 LSAT, 3.36 GPS from the University of Wisconsin at Whitewater. White male. Looking at the following: Univ. of Arizona Arizona State Univ. Univ. of Houston Indiana Univ. - Bloomington Univ. of Iowa Univ. of Kentucky Marquette Univ. Univ. of Michigan Univ. of Minnesota Univ. of Nevada Univ. of New Mexico Univ. of Oklahoma Univ. of Richmond (Virginia) Southern Methodist Univ. Univ. of Texas Univ. of Utah William and Mary (Virginia) Univ. of Wisconsin
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 11:23:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 11:25:16 AM EDT by AnotherPundit]
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: Assuming you are white, I don't think you can bust into the big 14. Is there any chance of amerind or hispanic blood somewhere? If not, I would say go for it, but also apply at the next tier and take the best ranked admission.
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Yeah, I'm as lily-white as you can get, really, so the top 14 are out, but that's fine. I should be able to make top 20-40 though, and there really isn't *that* much difference between a school ranked #34 and one ranked #10. (here's the rankings I've been going by: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/gradrank/law/gdlawt1.htm )
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:14:16 PM EDT
Prebans- You're gonna have a tough time with Arizona and W&M. UT Austin and Michigan will be almost impossible. You've got a good shot at the rest of those schools. I don't mind giving you my own stats to compare (and to show you how tough law school admissions are for white males these days): LSAT 168 (97th percentile) 3.22 from the #1 Liberal Arts College White Male Duke - Waitlist UCLA - Waitlist Vanderbilt - Waitlist UT Austin - Rejected UC Berkeley - Rejected W&M - admitted, fellowship, accepted offer UNC-CH - admitted, scholarship Arizona - admitted, scholarship
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:49:20 PM EDT
Five years ago I was sweating out the apps myself. Note: this is 5 plus years out of date. I did every one of top 10 except for Vig, San, and Duke. Michigan was the higest ranking that let me in (#6 at the time). I had a 168 LSAT and a 3.8 under grad, and I am a WM. Talking to folks at tier 2, you have to be high in the grades to get interviewed. Talked to some Cooley guys once, their editor in chief sometimes gets interviews. Lawyers are real snobby. Go to the highest rank you can.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:36:01 PM EDT
Thank God we have only a few, but very old universities here in Holland, of which you can choose yourself which one to go to, i.e. the Erasmus University of Rotterdam (grad 1980) But getting down to business, should anyone have a question about Dutch gunlaws, don't hesitate to ask , but don't be shocked by the answers [shock] as we have very (re)strict(ive) rules.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:18:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: Five years ago I was sweating out the apps myself. Note: this is 5 plus years out of date. I did every one of top 10 except for Vig, San, and Duke. Michigan was the higest ranking that let me in (#6 at the time). I had a 168 LSAT and a 3.8 under grad, and I am a WM. Talking to folks at tier 2, you have to be high in the grades to get interviewed. Talked to some Cooley guys once, their editor in chief sometimes gets interviews. Lawyers are real snobby. Go to the highest rank you can.
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The job market right now SUCKS. I go to a top tier school, I'm on L. Rev. AND one of the top specialty journals in the country, I have a merit-based scholarship and very good grades. I still don't have any offers after sending out 80-90 resumes to big firms. Got some interviews, but no offers.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 10:16:15 AM EDT
Any other lawyers out there in the south? I'm comliling a list, and need some more names! Let me know if anyone knows of some good contacts. -Rich
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 6:16:28 AM EDT
Yeah, I hate to agree with the rest of the posts here, but go for the highest "name" school. When I was a summer associate in a firm back in 1995, they told me that only recently had they dropped their policy of hiring only from top 10 or Ivy League schools. I'm at a different firm now and while we recruit from all the local law schools, it's the ones with the names that get the most consideration. I managed to get lucky, I got into law school during down times (1994) and came out right as the salary wars started (1997). If you all are going in right now, hopefully the same will happen for you! Justin
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 8:40:41 AM EDT
I would like to get some more pro-gun attorney's listed up here...if we are just going to talk about getting into law school, then this should be untacked. I would like to limit this thread to a serious listing of pro-gun defense lawyers. No flame intended, gents.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 9:50:03 AM EDT
I work for an employment/labor law firm in Cleveland, Ohio. I am always happy to help where I can.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 10:39:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dbrowne1: I'm a 2L at W&M and was admitted to UNC-CH, and I also know some Davidson alums here and elswhere. Drop me an email if you want to visit W&M...I'll give you the no BS tour and bring your guns...we'll go to the range!
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Did you know Happy O'Brien and the "Brain"? He's an associate at my firm. BTW, I went to UNC Chapel Hill both undergrad and law school. A very fun school. Why the hell did you choose W&M over Chapel Thrill?
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 1:13:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: Did you know Happy O'Brien and the "Brain"? He's an associate at my firm. BTW, I went to UNC Chapel Hill both undergrad and law school. A very fun school. Why the hell did you choose W&M over Chapel Thrill?
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Yeah, I met you and Happy last year at the VA Beach Courthouse...remember? Don't know the "Brain". I visited both Chapel Hill and W&M the same week, made a subjective decision. I liked both schools and visited my buddy at Duke last year too (but went to Franklin St. in C-H).
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 1:34:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2001 1:39:14 PM EDT by AR15Gator]
You will find that law schools in FL have a number of second amendment friendly individuals. You may be suprised at the number of CCW's, particularly among women. From my name, you might infer that my experience in this regard comes from UF. My understanding is that a few good conservatives go to Stetson Law. My advice would be to look at conservative organizations at your school. You might find friendly faces a little closer to home than you expected.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 2:51:01 PM EDT
A great idea. Especially with all the fear out there making the sheeple nervous.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 3:58:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dbrowne1: Yeah, I met you and Happy last year at the VA Beach Courthouse...remember? Don't know the "Brain". I visited both Chapel Hill and W&M the same week, made a subjective decision. I liked both schools and visited my buddy at Duke last year too (but went to Franklin St. in C-H).
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That's right, forgot that was you. The "Brain" is something some of your Davidsnon grads would know about. Good luck with your job search. There's two big firms in Norfolk right now that are hiring (inside info) so keep looking.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 4:56:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15Gator: You will find that law schools in FL have a number of second amendment friendly individuals. You may be suprised at the number of CCW's, particularly among women. From my name, you might infer that my experience in this regard comes from UF.
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Same here in VA. Lots of people, females in particular, have asked or been "referred" to me about training, buying guns, CHL, etc. And that was BEFORE 9/11/01.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 8:20:54 AM EDT
Thanks to everyone who has contributed info already. I'm hoping that this list will continue to grow...
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 4:19:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: Did you know Happy O'Brien...? He's an associate at my firm.
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So he finally passed the bar, eh? [;D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 5:01:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: So he finally passed the bar, eh? [;D]
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Yep, but what do you mean, "finally", he only took it once.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:00:19 AM EDT
Hmmm... my bad. [:I] I must have mistaken him for someone else... maybe one of the Kennedys. [;D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 8:51:17 AM EDT
Ouch, rippin on a dead guy . . . [;)]
Link Posted: 11/10/2001 3:37:39 AM EDT
My father is an Attourney in Central Alabama. He is Pro-Gun and will help as needed anyone who needs it. [b]Put me down for a contact for legal representation in Alabama.[/b]
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 9:29:36 AM EDT
pro gun attorney in Michigan. However I practice intellectual property (Patents, Trademarks and Copyrights) Looking for an associate with an electrical engineering degree for all the law schoolers. Progun but no real experience in criminal defense or such matters. Can always throw my two cents worth in though.
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 12:12:28 PM EDT
When did the LSAT stop using a 10-48 scoring scale?
Link Posted: 11/14/2001 3:51:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: When did the LSAT stop using a 10-48 scoring scale?
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Never even heard of that scale. It's been 120-180 for some time now.
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