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Posted: 9/19/2004 4:28:01 PM EST
I am looking to purchase a 1911 for CCW. I need something reliable and accurate out of the box. I am leaning toward a Commander size carried in a Milt Sparks Versamax II IWB. Anyone carry a rig like this? I am new to the 1911 but I think the slim frame will be a big plus for CCW. I am not looking for a high capacity 1911 or a LDA so I have ruled the Para's out. Max budget would be in the 1K-1.2K range. Any suggestions? Anything I should look out for? Please feel free to share pics of your 1911 CCW rig. Thanx in advance- Nugz
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:32:56 PM EST
Get the Sparks and a Kimber.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:33:14 PM EST
1911's are so thin and easy to carry I just have a big belt (the wide green kind that are used with BDU's) I just stick it in between the outside of my pants. It is by far the most comfortable way I have ever carried a gun.

I honestly dont even realize my full size government is there, its securet too and makes for a very fast draw.


I would get a springfield or kimber. Those all have worked good out of the box. Personally I prefer a 5" gun but the commander size works well too.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:37:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:44:06 PM EST
I myself like SA's, but for 1-2k if it's available, look at Wilson's CQB pistol! It's a truly awesome defensive pistol for sure. I'd also stick with the full 5" Gov frame, it is still easy to conceal and I find the longer sight plane better IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:48:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:
Get the Sparks and a Kimber.



What model of Kimber do you carry? I have read a lot of complaints about the Series II safeties but I dont know if these are legitaimate complaints. What I am really looking for here is details regarding the pros and cons of the modern 1911's from people who trust theirs enough to carry them. Thanx W-W. - Nugz
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:49:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 5:03:48 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
+1 CQB or CQB Compact...or a Professional

MT

(but you guys knew I was going to say that..)
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:49:37 PM EST
Don't overlook the Dan Wesson line of 1911s. Mine has been nothing but dead-nuts reliable.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:49:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:

Originally Posted By W-W:
Get the Sparks and a Kimber.



What model of Kimber do you carry? I have read a lot of complaints about the Series II safeties but I dont know if these are legitaimate complaints. What I am really looking for here is details regarding the pros and cons of the modern 1911's from people who trust theirs enough to carry them. Thanx W-W. - Nugz



kimbers are nice and all but a good thing about springfield is they dont have all that series 80 safety crap.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:50:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By W-W:
Get the Sparks and a Kimber.


Agreed.
I don't use the Sparks rig but I do alternate between 2 Kimbers as my carry gun. I have owned 4 1911's, 2 Colts and 2 Kimbers. I liked the Colts and I wish I still had them but I will not part with my Kimbers. I have had no equipment problems with either. They are every accurate and revy reliable. One of my Kimber's might be just what you are looking for: Pro Carry with aluminum frame.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:50:47 PM EST
springfield or kimber
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:52:54 PM EST
Are the 5" models easy to conceal IWB at about the 4 o'clock position strongside while seated? I spend alot of my time on my ass.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:56:00 PM EST
How big of guy are you? and be prepared to buy some new pants if going IWB.


MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:00:40 PM EST
Since you mentioned you are looking at a commander size gun I'll tell you what I have been looking at lately. I am seriously trying to decide between a full size, commander, or officers size. I have a full size Springfield TRP and a Colt officers model. I was seriously looking at a commander size because of the shorter barrel. I realized that my preferred method of carry is a inside the waist band style holster. If that is your method of carry, barrel length isn't goint to matter that much. One thing to realize is that full sized and commanders have the same grip length usually. The hardest part of concealment is usually hiding the grip of the gun.

I'm still trying to decide between a full size and an officers size. I'm not sure that I like the snap of the recoil from the shorter barrel. One problem in trying to decide is that my officers has a standard grip safety and not a beaver tail style so it bites a little bit.

Don't discount Paraordances from your search. They have single stack guns also.

Paraord16
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:02:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
How big of guy are you? and be prepared to buy some new pants if going IWB.


MT



I'm 5'11 @ 240lbs... I am working on dropping about 40lbs of that though.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:12:29 PM EST
Love my SA 9109L. Never had a moments trouble with it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:15:02 PM EST
You might be able to hide it a better than me. I can tell you that in the 4 position it will make you improve your posture at a desk. You may not have to go inside IWB and that would help with a couple issues (sweat & comfort)..but decrease the concealment factor slightly unless you wear a jacket.

A few more factors to consider.

MT
( I am not a GURU by the way)

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:16:39 PM EST
I am looking to carry like this:

I *think* the forward cant of the Milt Sparks will help hide the full size grip of a 1911. Can anyone confirm this?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:18:15 PM EST
Yes and a 5" Slide will keep you anchored.

MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:19:21 PM EST
What did you have for dinner that was so good it got on your shirt.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:23:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 5:28:45 PM EST by Nugz]

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
You might be able to hide it a better than me. I can tell you that in the 4 position it will make you improve your posture at a desk. You may not have to go inside IWB and that would help with a couple issues (sweat & comfort)..but decrease the concealment factor slightly unless you wear a jacket.

A few more factors to consider.

MT
( I am not a GURU by the way)




My posture could use improvement but I'll pull it out and throw it on the desk if its a problem.



I work from home.

I would however like to be able to enjoy a two-hour movie or dinner out etc. without being uncomfortable because of my CCW.

Dont sweat the "guru" thing. I used the term loosely and I appreciate EVERYONES replies. Thanx- Nugz
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:26:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kamikazi:
What did you have for dinner that was so good it got on your shirt.





Nice observation but thats NOT me.

STOLE THAT PIC FROM HERE
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:28:13 PM EST
KIMBER!

Also the new S&W Scandium 4 1/4" gun is very nice too. All it needs is a set of tritium sights.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:35:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 5:36:21 PM EST by geegee]

I myself like SA's, but for 1-2k if it's available, look at Wilson's CQB pistol! It's a truly awesome defensive pistol for sure. I'd also stick with the full 5" Gov frame, it is still easy to conceal and I find the longer sight plane better IMHO

Ditto on all points. The best thing you'll do for yourself, after the pistol and holster are found, will be to get a good, sturdy gun belt. Without one, your carrying experience will be miserable. If you like the Sparks holsters (and what's not to like?), then buy a belt from them as well. I have a couple of them, and they're excellent.

No point in spending $1-2k on a pistol, and then skimping with your carry rig. Get the best you can afford!
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:36:01 PM EST
I love my Springfield Loaded Stainless Champion. I carry it at the 4 o'clock position, just like in your picture. It is perfect for me. I love the Champion model more each time I shoot it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:39:06 PM EST
Okay guys. Its easy to yell "Kimber!" or "Springfield!" or "GET A GLOCK!" for that matter. But I am looking for DETAILS on WHY I should consider Kimber over Springfield or vice versa. Or any other maker for that matter.<austin powers> "Throw me a frickin bone here!"
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:46:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By guns762:
I love my Springfield Loaded Stainless Champion. I carry it at the 4 o'clock position, just like in your picture. It is perfect for me. I love the Champion model more each time I shoot it.



This is the model that has my interest right now but alot of people keep yelling "Get a Kimber!" and I am trying to avoid any costly mistakes. I would like to hear more details about your Champion (Loaded) if you wouldnt mind sharing. I wish it had a checkered front strap but I could aways get that done I guess. What ammo does yours like? How is the reliability and accuracy? How long have you had it? Please share. Thanx- Nugz
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:56:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 6:22:21 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
I personally would go with...

Wilson Combat - Because the reliable defensive pistol is their specialty. (my carry)
Ed Brown - For a more Custom look without a 2 year wait. =)
Dan Wesson - Well put together beautiful stainless models.
Springfield - to save a dollar and they have many many models and options.
Rock River Arms - for a nice blue finish and to save a dollar, nice pistol.

I don't do Kimber but I have a personal reason for that. I am not bashing them.
Smith & Wesson no because they continue to disappoint me with their craftsmanship and locks
Sig GSR ... Nice weapon I feel they are still working out the bugs. (based on consumer feedback)

There is a couple pennies worth...

MT

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:08:16 PM EST
Here's the reason for yelling Kimber. I've got three of them and they're awesome 1911's for the money. I had one Para P14 it was a POS. I had a Springfield it was a POS. Many of my friends have had similar experiences. The only 1911 I've owned that was better than my Kimbers was an STI Edge. It was a better gun ( a specialized race gun) but only marginally so and cost nearly 2K!
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:15:05 PM EST
You have been here, right? forums.1911forum.com/
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:30:43 PM EST
Kimber or NRM Colt
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:30:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
I had a Springfield it was a POS.



My SA overheard that and is NOT happy.

Brent
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:45:42 PM EST
I have my carried the exact same way. For me it was a Kimber Custom II the 5 inch practically disappears in the Milt Sparks VMII holster. Bought my kimber for $600.00. Not one failure in 1500 rounds so far and totally reliable. I also have a glock 30 with a MSVMII and love them both.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:47:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:
Okay guys. Its easy to yell "Kimber!" or "Springfield!" or "GET A GLOCK!" for that matter. But I am looking for DETAILS on WHY I should consider Kimber over Springfield or vice versa. Or any other maker for that matter.<austin powers> "Throw me a frickin bone here!"



There have been many threads with pics of the slide of the Springfield broke off.
This has been one reason I haven't 'tried' a SA.

The other reasons are, between my brother and myself, we have 4 Kimbers with a combined 10,000+ rounds through them with absolutely zero malfunctions or failures!

My daily CCW one is a Pro CDP in a Fist IWB holster.



I got the second one, a Custom CDP, because of the excellent service from the first!



If you do not like the Firing Pin Safety System on the Kimber Series II's then just swap a couple parts and make it a Series I.

I haven't taken any pics of the holster setup but it would look like most any other style IWB.

BigDozer66

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:49:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
You have been here, right? forums.1911forum.com/



Yes I have been there, thanks tho. I have heard similar stories about both Kimber and Springfield as far as one or the other being a POS. Its just hard to get down to WHY people feel that way. I was hoping for more of an experience like my first AR purchase. I came here for advice and nearly EVERYONE preached Bushmaster (about 5 years ago.) Yet I was hard pressed to find anyone with a bad thing to say about Bushmaster back then. I have NO probs with my Bushy and I feel I was given good advice and I am very thankful for it. I love my Bushy. But this 1911 thing is proving to be different. Its sounding alot like a Ford vs. Chevy thing. I am just looking to be well informed before laying my money on the line. It was hard enough to get out of the modern pistol frame of thought and start seriously thinking about the 1911. If I were a rich man I wouldnt worry about it I would buy one of everything and try em ALL. Unfortunately I am not rich. I get one chance. If I make the wrong decision it could be awhile before I can rectify the situation. Maybe I should just get an HK USPC. I know I could trust my life to that gun. But, DAMN, they are ugly after falling in love with 1911's.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:53:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By brentwal:

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
I had a Springfield it was a POS.



My SA overheard that and is NOT happy.

Brent



Sorry but it's true. It was a Hi Cap 45, about 3 years ago. A total turd. The slide and frame were good base parts but it'd have required a total rebuild to be acceptable. Maybe the Hi Cap is the low end and some of the maxed out SA's are ok, I don't know. I do know that a base Kimber is a solid defensive piece worthy of anyone's consideration. They are accurate, reliable, well speced 1911's.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:00:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:00:37 PM EST
You asked for a Colt by name, dont let yourself down by buying a lesser brand name...............Go for the Colt!!

XSE Commander Lightweight




XSE Commander

Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:07:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
You asked for a Colt by name, dont let yourself down by buying a lesser brand name...............






Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:07:55 PM EST
Nugz, only you can make the choice. SA, Wilson, Colt, Kimber.... It's your 2 bits, don't buy it with everybody else's 2 centsBrent
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:11:29 PM EST

I have heard SO many good things about the Kimber CDP's. But what makes this better than any other Kimber? What makes this better than any other Springfield? What makes it so....mystical?
If I could find a 1911 that everyone spoke so highly of as they do the CDP series and it didnt look like a melted stick of butter or a used bar of soap I would buy it in a heartbeat. No offense to CDP owners but what the hell was Kimber thinking when they dehorned that poor thing to such an extreme? Its a GUN not a WOMAN! Guns dont need THAT many curves! I am not tucking it into lace panties and if I was those sights would get hung up sure as shit. Trivial, I know, but I cant spend that kind of money on a gun that I dont like the looks of. So besides that, WHAT makes a CDP so "special"? What sets it apart from the rest?- Nugz

Disclaimer: I have had people look at my AR and tell me it looks like a toy. I was not insulted. To each his own. Please do not take my post as an insult.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:20:31 PM EST
The CDP's "melt" job is one of the things some gunsmiths used to charge big bucks for. Since you don't care for that look why not check into some of the other custom shop Kimbers? If money is tight just get a base gun and add some grip tape to the front strap and a set of night sights and you're set. I'd recommend a good steel frame base gun from Kimber's line for your first 1911.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:21:28 PM EST
Here we go spitting out more names and sticking up photos...

I am sorry that an SA had a problem with a frame...many times people have slides fracturing from +P abuse. Not saying it was your case.

I am sure Nugz really knows what he wants and may just need to hear some personal experience and facts to reassure his decision.

The truth is there are many reliable 1911 pistols and as I stated in the post 2nd down from the top my reasons for liking each brand. Maybe you could do the same and give reasons you like your favorite. Tell of it's unique features.

MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:30:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By brentwal:
Nugz, only you can make the choice. SA, Wilson, Colt, Kimber.... It's your 2 bits, don't buy it with everybody else's 2 cents

Brent



Brent: I agree with you to an extent. And the more I read the more I feel that way. I was just hoping for some good reasons to go with brand X over brand Y. So far I havn't heard that many. I do have a couple of points I would like to address. Kimber has a 1 year warranty, Springfield has a LIFETIME warranty. Kimber has a website with very little information on it. Mayabe I just picked a bad time to research 1911's as their site is "under construction". Springfield has alot more info on their site. This alone makes it difficult to make an informed decision. This is my reason for relying on personal experience from my fellow shooters.- Nugz
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:33:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:
I am looking to purchase a 1911 for CCW. I need something reliable and accurate out of the box. I am leaning toward a Commander size carried in a Milt Sparks Versamax II IWB. Anyone carry a rig like this? I am new to the 1911 but I think the slim frame will be a big plus for CCW. I am not looking for a high capacity 1911 or a LDA so I have ruled the Para's out. Max budget would be in the 1K-1.2K range. Any suggestions? Anything I should look out for? Please feel free to share pics of your 1911 CCW rig. Thanx in advance- Nugz



I carry a Kimber Ultra CDP and I love it!
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:51:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
The CDP's "melt" job is one of the things some gunsmiths used to charge big bucks for. Since you don't care for that look why not check into some of the other custom shop Kimbers? If money is tight just get a base gun and add some grip tape to the front strap and a set of night sights and you're set. I'd recommend a good steel frame base gun from Kimber's line for your first 1911.



Dont take me wrong,money isnt the issue here...well unless we are talking over $1500. At that point I have a very hard time justifying carrying it. I am not trying to skimp at all, I just want to know what I am spending the extra dough on.

Okay, that said, someone please tell me what is wrong with this choice of 1911 as a CCW.



Its a Springfield Champion "Loaded" 4 inch barrel 1911 with Novak Night Sites, a sight radius of 5.6 inches , Chambered in .45 ACP (of course ) with a capacity of 7+1. The MSRP is $906 but the "street price" seems to fall in around $700-$750 ( I MAY be mistaken here but that is the intel I have so far).
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:54:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:


I carry a Kimber Ultra CDP and I love it!



Congrats.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:00:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 8:02:17 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
Nice Choice:

SS forged frame and slide, supported ramped barrel, Novak Low mount Tritium, High Ride Beavertail, Ambi-Saftey, Dual Recoil Spring Guide Assembly, Beveled Mag Well, Light weight Hammer....$700.00ish (Buy 2)

MT

edit: If you think the extra 1" would be do-able I would choose it to keep the pistol anchored below your belt-line.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:01:48 PM EST
Pretty!
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:51:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
Nice Choice:

SS forged frame and slide, supported ramped barrel, Novak Low mount Tritium, High Ride Beavertail, Ambi-Saftey, Dual Recoil Spring Guide Assembly, Beveled Mag Well, Light weight Hammer....$700.00ish (Buy 2)

MT

edit: If you think the extra 1" would be do-able I would choose it to keep the pistol anchored below your belt-line.



Thanks MT, I will keep that in mind.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:03:51 PM EST


I carry a Glock 19, with a Galco IWB NSAII holster. Loaded with Winchester Ranger +P+.


Cost alot less than a 1911 and just as efective.
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