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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/12/2002 4:16:45 PM EDT
On Monday at noon I will hand over my 2 MKS M14 receivers at my lawyers office. These are HRA and WRA receivers that were torch cut in 1975 and were rewelded last year. ATF says they are illegal machine guns and it made me real angry to hear that when I called. They will sieze them and I will get a property receipt, there is litigation pending with possible support from the NRA legal defense fund. Incredibly sad day for me, those rifles are the most beautiful things I've ever had posession of in my life.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:20:40 PM EDT
It's a shame that somebody didn't "steal" them.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:21:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:21:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 03shooter: It's a shame that somebody didn't "steal" them.
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it's a crying shame.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:23:12 PM EDT
How did they find out about them in the first place? In any case, that is a shame. Sorry to hear that.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:26:19 PM EDT
Rrotz, I feel sorry for you. The good news is that the ATF has lost a similar case before. Their claim that "Once A Machine Gun, Always a Machine Gun" doesn't fly in court. I believe the case involved M-14 rifles converted to semi-auto for match purposes and later sold to the general public. I think you will eventually get them back, it may take a little while, but I think you will have them back in your hands at some day. AFARR
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:27:26 PM EDT
[img]http://sparrowhawkm14.bizland.com/BATF.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 4:29:58 PM EDT
[img]http://sparrowhawkm14.bizland.com/MKSLetter.jpg[/img] [img]http://sparrowhawkm14.bizland.com/MKS3.jpg[/img] [img]http://sparrowhawkm14.bizland.com/MKSLetter2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 5:07:25 PM EDT
More ATF bullshit strong arm tactics. This is the problem that develops when you give ANY government agency both regulatory and enforcement functions. There is no doubt that the lawsuit will go to Mr. Kelly, and, I would hope his lawyers are smart enough to attempt to collect on the $1,000,000 in damages that the Federal Law says you can collect from the IRS for willful violations against taxpayers. I know the ATF is separate from the IRS, but a solid case could be made that since they are an agency of the Treasury, and are collecting Tax, they fall under the same federal laws. AFARR
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 5:41:23 PM EDT
Unfortunatly even if you get a receipt for your recvr the chances of ever getting it back if MKS wins is slim. The ATF will refuse to return it for some reason or another and force you to spend a lot of $ and lawyers and time to get your property back. Since the NRA doesn't give a S#it they won't get involved. Obviously someone high in the ATF really has a hair up there Azz to get bent out of shape over less than 300 recvr's. In my opinion the ATF isn't going to back down now they have gone this far into confiscating no matter what the courts may say.....
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 10:35:56 PM EDT
Federal judge to ATF (in about ten years): "You boys fucked up, give the people their guns back." ATF response: "Gee your honor, we'd really like to, but we melted them all nine years ago. Sorry."
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:15:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Federal judge to ATF (in about ten years): "You boys fucked up, give the people their guns back." ATF response: "Gee your honor, we'd really like to, but we melted them all nine years ago. Sorry."
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This is exactly why I wouldn't turn them over in the first place. I would make the BATF come to my house and pick them up, with a warrant of course. Otherwise they could just suck my dick. How hard could it be for an owner to get an injunction filed to get somebody with a little common sense involved in this matter? Hey RRotz, if you want to sell a couple of M14 semiauto receivers sometime before noon on Monday shoot me an email. I've got cash and a dealer to receive them.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:27:46 AM EDT
If there is anything useful that we can do (write letters, donate money, etc.) please let us know.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:09:31 AM EDT
I agree with Sparky. ATF will lose this one because the NRA lawyers will file in the 5th circuit's territory. However, ATF has already factored the cost for replacement including depreciation if they lose. They will destroy and pay everyone about $200 as compensation. The sad thing about is that the federal government has far than enough inventory to replace the destroy legal receivers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:16:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: If there is anything useful that we can do (write letters, donate money, etc.) please let us know.
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How about arming neighbors and threatening revolution? [:D]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:25:31 AM EDT
Well, if this action by the ATF does not deserve the lable of Jack Boot Thuggery, then I don't know what does. If anyone does not believe that all of their weapons are not already registered, they need to think again. I can feel the flames getting closer!
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:17:16 AM EDT
RRotz Do not sign the abandonment papers. Meet them at your lawyers office and get a receipt,names,supervisors,etc. cpermd
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 12:33:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: RRotz Do not sign the abandonment papers. Meet them at your lawyers office and get a receipt,names,supervisors,etc. cpermd
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I will not abandon them. They are seizing them at my lawyers office and I expect an ATF Form 3400.23, a property seizure receipt and I will print the 2nd Amendment next to my signature.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 12:38:12 PM EDT
Are you turning over the complete rifles or just stripped receivers? Take the parts off, then you have them to put on an M1A receiver or sell them. Sucks no matter what you do. [:(!]
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