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Posted: 7/22/2013 4:37:48 PM EST

http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-requests-public-comments-on-firearm-application-form


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives released a 60-day notice on Wednesday requesting comments on a proposed change to its Application to Make and Register a Firearm, Form Number: ATF F 1 (5320.1). The notice is published in the Federal Register for Monday, July 22, available online now.
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Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:40:44 PM EST
What's their angle in this?
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:41:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jeffco55:
What's their angle in this?
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To fuck us somehow, I'm sure.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:41:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:42:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jeffco55:
What's their angle in this?
View Quote



Pay with a credit card, and combine info off of previous forms submitted.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:43:09 PM EST
Get rid of the "additional info on firearm" box so we don't have to engrave our gun.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:44:34 PM EST
register a firearm
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:46:00 PM EST
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”
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Interesting......
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:47:44 PM EST
You guys think they're looking for advice and input from actual firearm owners or from people who are anti-gun?

My guess is they'll disregard anything that is pro-gun and spew to the public what the anti-gun assholes are saying on this "questionnaire" in an effort to convince the "on the fence" crowd that we do need more regulation.

Always remember, they play from the angle of "how can we fuck freedom loving patriots."
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:48:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:



Interesting......
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Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


So the ATF admits the NFA is unconstitutional and acknowledges that it knows the NFA is unconstitutional? Interesting indeed.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:48:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jeffco55:
What's their angle in this?
View Quote


Collecting email addresses and IPs?
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:49:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:



Interesting......
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Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


That's a nice, explicit admission of attempting to ban an entire class of firearms.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:49:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:



Interesting......
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......

No shit, huh?

Thanks Gloryholers for clearing that up for us.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:49:53 PM EST
They can go masturbate horses. That's as constructive as I can get a fifth into the night.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:51:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:53:55 PM EST
option1

Shove it up Americans Ass, charge 200$, 9 months


option2

Fuck Americans up the Ass, charge 200$, 9 months
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:00:21 PM EST
I wonder if they're adding a checkbox for "creepy ass cracka" on the forms?

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:01:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pilotman:


To fuck us somehow, I'm sure.
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Originally Posted By pilotman:
Originally Posted By jeffco55:
What's their angle in this?


To fuck us somehow, I'm sure.



/thread
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:02:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VBC:
Get rid of the "additional info on firearm" box so we don't have to engrave our gun.
View Quote

As the maker you must engrave it, additional info is an easy box to list additional calibers and barrel lengths so cops won't ask questions about why the gun doesn't match the form.

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:06:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 5:07:24 PM EST by 1Andy2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:


That's a nice, explicit admission of attempting to ban an entire class of firearms.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


That's a nice, explicit admission of attempting to ban an entire class of firearms.


Not that it matters.

Everyone already knows it is unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:07:31 PM EST
Are they finally starting to realize that a suppressor is not a firearm and should not be regulated as a firearm?

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:07:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 5:09:03 PM EST by S13gmund]
The proposed change to the size of the form, i.e., 8.5" x 14" will- not kidding here- act as a deterrent for individuals looking to submit the form. This is the reason why South Carolina's "no concealed weapons allowed" sign was intentionally required to be bigger than the common 8.5" x 11"... So there would be a psychological and practical barrier impeding the owner of a premises from simply printing one out on presumably available standard printer paper.

Oppose this change to the paper size.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:08:01 PM EST
Step one. Get a lighter.
Step two. Turn the lighter on.
Step three. Light the law on fire and get rid of it.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:10:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JPN:
Are they finally starting to realize that a suppressor is not a firearm and should not be regulated as a firearm?

View Quote


lol, that'd be helpful to us.

Good one, brah
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:10:23 PM EST
"Fuck the ATF"


How's that for a public comment?

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:11:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:


So the ATF admits the NFA is unconstitutional and acknowledges that it knows the NFA is unconstitutional? Interesting indeed.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


So the ATF admits the NFA is unconstitutional and acknowledges that it knows the NFA is unconstitutional? Interesting indeed.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Yeah; that's bizarre since it was put forward as a tax measure which is under under the purview of congress, rather than a gun control measure.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:14:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By S13gmund:
The proposed change to the size of the form, i.e., 8.5" x 14" will- not kidding here- act as a deterrent for individuals looking to submit the form. This is the reason why South Carolina's "no concealed weapons allowed" sign was intentionally required to be bigger than the common 8.5" x 11"... So there would be a psychological and practical barrier impeding the owner of a premises from simply printing one out on presumably available standard printer paper.

Oppose this change to the paper size.
View Quote




8.5" x 14" will work with any printer and fit in standard envelopes just fine. How is it an impediment?
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:14:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By America-first:


Yeah; that's bizarre since it was put forward as a tax measure which is under under the purview of congress, rather than a gun control measure.
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Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


So the ATF admits the NFA is unconstitutional and acknowledges that it knows the NFA is unconstitutional? Interesting indeed.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Yeah; that's bizarre since it was put forward as a tax measure which is under under the purview of congress, rather than a gun control measure.


Let's push.

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:17:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:




8.5" x 14" will work with any printer and fit in standard envelopes just fine. How is it an impediment?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By S13gmund:
The proposed change to the size of the form, i.e., 8.5" x 14" will- not kidding here- act as a deterrent for individuals looking to submit the form. This is the reason why South Carolina's "no concealed weapons allowed" sign was intentionally required to be bigger than the common 8.5" x 11"... So there would be a psychological and practical barrier impeding the owner of a premises from simply printing one out on presumably available standard printer paper.

Oppose this change to the paper size.




8.5" x 14" will work with any printer and fit in standard envelopes just fine. How is it an impediment?


Most people do not keep 14" paper on hand.

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:17:38 PM EST
How about this...

Same background nics check for a tax stamp. Right there at the dealer, send the paperwork and approval to mother fuckers with 200 bucks and they just crank out the stamps.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:19:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 8:21:55 AM EST by SandWMandP15Tee]
If this would speed up the process by, immediate payment, trust won't need to be included because forms will be filed with previous ones. Since previous forms were accepted then that will be taken into consideration and insure an even faster approval time, like a month not eight. Forms and payment done online with a database previous users can log into and check on their old forms, pending forms and trust which can be amended online to add items as they are acquired. At anytime you can log in and see where your form is, if its been approved or needs to be corrected and a tracking number for a more precise delivery.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:19:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DocBull:
How about this...

Same background nics check for a tax stamp. Right there at the dealer, send the paperwork and approval to mother fuckers with 200 bucks and they just crank out the stamps.
View Quote


I'd be fine with that.

It took 'little steps' the last 80 years to get us in this shitty position. We won't get it back all at once.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:21:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:


Most people do not keep 14" paper on hand.

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Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By S13gmund:
The proposed change to the size of the form, i.e., 8.5" x 14" will- not kidding here- act as a deterrent for individuals looking to submit the form. This is the reason why South Carolina's "no concealed weapons allowed" sign was intentionally required to be bigger than the common 8.5" x 11"... So there would be a psychological and practical barrier impeding the owner of a premises from simply printing one out on presumably available standard printer paper.

Oppose this change to the paper size.




8.5" x 14" will work with any printer and fit in standard envelopes just fine. How is it an impediment?


Most people do not keep 14" paper on hand.



They carry it at walmart. 2 or 3 cents a sheet.

Lets try to keep things in perspective, please.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:21:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Not that it matters.

Everyone already knows it is unconstitutional.
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


That's a nice, explicit admission of attempting to ban an entire class of firearms.


Not that it matters.

Everyone already knows it is unconstitutional.


Yeah but maybe that could be used if the NFA is ever challenged in front of the supremes.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:23:10 PM EST
It probably costs the .gov about $1,000 to review, collate and compile each comment, regardless of it's content. Go ahead and submit them, for no other purpose than to hasten the demise of Leviathan.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:23:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 5:25:00 PM EST by LuckyDucky]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


They carry it at walmart. 2 or 3 cents a sheet.

Lets try to keep things in perspective, please.
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
...
Most people do not keep 14" paper on hand.



They carry it at walmart. 2 or 3 cents a sheet.

Lets try to keep things in perspective, please.


The point is not that the difference is an insurmountable difficulty. The point is that the small difference is just enough of an annoyance to have an effect.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:25:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jeffco55:
What's their angle in this?
View Quote


Maybe they want the anti-gun crowd to hit the site and flood it with "suggestions" that will clog up the works completely and make NFA ownership impossible. It might be worth putting this as a firemission to get a lot of Arfcom input on the issue to try and fend off a libtard stacking of the deck.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:28:04 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:29:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pilotman:


To fuck us somehow, I'm sure.
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Originally Posted By pilotman:
Originally Posted By jeffco55:
What's their angle in this?


To fuck us somehow, I'm sure.


This I'm sure
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:32:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:


The point is not that the difference is an insurmountable difficulty. The point is that the small difference is just enough of an annoyance to have an effect.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
...
Most people do not keep 14" paper on hand.



They carry it at walmart. 2 or 3 cents a sheet.

Lets try to keep things in perspective, please.


The point is not that the difference is an insurmountable difficulty. The point is that the small difference is just enough of an annoyance to have an effect.


up. Plus a lot of forms will get kicked back when people print their 8.5x14 form on 8.5x11 paper.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:33:47 PM EST
Seriously, if there is an overwhelming pro-gun, downsize F1s, what would it hurt? Let's let 'em know we want to push back in the right direction!
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:41:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:


The point is not that the difference is an insurmountable difficulty. The point is that the small difference is just enough of an annoyance to have an effect.
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Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
...
Most people do not keep 14" paper on hand.



They carry it at walmart. 2 or 3 cents a sheet.

Lets try to keep things in perspective, please.


The point is not that the difference is an insurmountable difficulty. The point is that the small difference is just enough of an annoyance to have an effect.


You mean like already requiring two-sided printing of forms? That's a whole lot more hassle than throwing in a few sheets of legal-size paper.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:43:19 PM EST
The Register notice provided us with practically nothing.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 5:54:15 PM EST
Reading it...Surprise...Space for a Credit Card Number....Sooo...Thinking hard here.....Let the FSA use their debit cards to pay the Tax Fee on a Form 1.

What could go wrong
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 7:34:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DocBull:
How about this...

Same background nics check for a tax stamp. Right there at the dealer, send the paperwork and approval to mother fuckers with 200 bucks and they just crank out the stamps.
View Quote



Thats how they could generate some serious revenue...

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 7:45:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Lomshek:


Yeah but maybe that could be used if the NFA is ever challenged in front of the supremes.
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Originally Posted By Lomshek:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By ZedsDeadBaby:
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”



Interesting......


That's a nice, explicit admission of attempting to ban an entire class of firearms.


Not that it matters.

Everyone already knows it is unconstitutional.


Yeah but maybe that could be used if the NFA is ever challenged in front of the supremes.


Ding.

The Heller ruling specifically stated (and I believe the McDonald ruling reiterated) that banning an entire class of firearms was absolutely unconstitutional, period.

This is an explicit statement by a federal agency acknowledging that the law they are tasked with interpreting and enforcing is unconstitutional, and that they have believed it to be so for an extended period of time.

There really isn't much defense against that in front of SCOTUS.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 7:48:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
“While the NFA was enacted by Congress as an exercise of its authority to tax, the NFA had an underlying purpose unrelated to revenue collection,” the ATF overview continues. “As the legislative history of the law discloses, its underlying purpose was to curtail, if not prohibit, transactions in NFA firearms.”
View Quote



That's so messed up...
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 7:48:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:




8.5" x 14" will work with any printer and fit in standard envelopes just fine. How is it an impediment?
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Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By S13gmund:
The proposed change to the size of the form, i.e., 8.5" x 14" will- not kidding here- act as a deterrent for individuals looking to submit the form. This is the reason why South Carolina's "no concealed weapons allowed" sign was intentionally required to be bigger than the common 8.5" x 11"... So there would be a psychological and practical barrier impeding the owner of a premises from simply printing one out on presumably available standard printer paper.

Oppose this change to the paper size.




8.5" x 14" will work with any printer and fit in standard envelopes just fine. How is it an impediment?


A few months later they are going to ban 14" paper.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 8:06:23 PM EST
The anti's will be commenting.

Don't let them go unchallenged.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 8:08:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:

snip

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Just emailed Sen Cruz. If anyone can get to the bottom of whether this is an admission of the law being unconstitutional or not, it's his team.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 8:11:53 PM EST
Am I reading the notice wrong or does it mention the possibility of electronic submission of forms?
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