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Posted: 9/30/2011 5:14:51 AM EST

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/30/atf-tells-arizona-gun-dealers-cant-sell-to-medical-marijuana-patients/?test=latestnews


While some citizens may have won the right to use medical marijuana, winning one right may come at the expense of another.

In a letter to firearms dealers across the country, federal authorities are being clear that firearms should not be sold to medical marijuana users.

The Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agency (ATF) is sending a letter to gun dealers warning them it is illegal to sell the weapons to people who admit smoking medical marijuana and have a medical marijuana card –– something the card holders are unimpressed about



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/30/atf-tells-arizona-gun-dealers-cant-sell-to-medical-marijuana-patients/?test=latestnews#ixzz1ZRfSdIol
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:15:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 5:18:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
This is in now way, a duped topic...
really, you were first.


sorry gees
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:49:31 AM EST
How is this legal? What laws are MM card holders breaking?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:50:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:57:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By Backwoodz:
How is this legal? What laws are MM card holders breaking?


Marijuana is illegal under federal law. Medical marijuana cards are issued by the individual states, and the Federal Government has decided not to waste the time and effort to prosecute users.

The 4473 is clear and simple, you cannot purchase a gun if you are an unlawful user of drugs. Regardless of what your state's laws are, smoking marijuana for any reason is illegal under federal law, therefore you cannot legally purchase a firearm.

The ATF has just clarified what is current law. They didn't have changed anything from how it's always been.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:10:22 AM EST
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:13:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:14:51 AM EST
What!!!!

When did this happen?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:16:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.


That would require a new law to be passed by congress. The ATF cannot make new laws, only enforce current laws. The law clearly does not apply to additions or abuse of legal substances.

Based on comments like these, and the posts in the other ATF/MM thread, I think about 70% of Arfcom doesn't actually understand how our legislature works.....
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:18:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.


That would require a new law to be passed by congress. The ATF cannot make new laws, only enforce current laws. The law clearly does not apply to additions or abuse of legal substances.

Based on comments like these, and the posts in the other ATF/MM thread, I think about 70% of Arfcom doesn't actually understand how our legislature works.....

Careful glass-house-owner. Read form 4473 & get back to me with the pertinent line.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:19:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Careful glass-house-owner. Read form 4473 & get back to me with the pertinent line.


I work for an FFL, I've read it. It doesn't apply to alcohol or legal, prescribed narcotics.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:21:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 7:24:18 AM EST by AR4U]
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.


That would require a new law to be passed by congress. The ATF cannot make new laws, only enforce current laws. The law clearly does not apply to additions or abuse of legal substances.

Based on comments like these, and the posts in the other ATF/MM thread, I think about 70% of Arfcom doesn't actually understand how our legislature works.....


Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?



It's right on the 4473.


"Or" means "or."


ETA: What is the text of the actual law?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:27:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 7:27:17 AM EST by Zcwilkins]
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Careful glass-house-owner. Read form 4473 & get back to me with the pertinent line.


I work for an FFL, I've read it. It doesn't apply to alcohol or legal, prescribed narcotics.


I think you're wrong there, it references controlled substances which, by popular definition, are outlined by the DEA/FDA and would include prescribed narcotics.

Drug Schedules
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:28:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 7:31:36 AM EST by Intune69]
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Careful glass-house-owner. Read form 4473 & get back to me with the pertinent line.


I work for an FFL, I've read it. It doesn't apply to alcohol or legal, prescribed narcotics.


Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance.

Really?

Sound like glass breaking...

Some folks read the Second Ammend weird too. That English is a motherfucker.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:31:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.


That would require a new law to be passed by congress. The ATF cannot make new laws, only enforce current laws. The law clearly does not apply to additions or abuse of legal substances.

Based on comments like these, and the posts in the other ATF/MM thread, I think about 70% of Arfcom doesn't actually understand how our legislature works.....



ITT people who think the gov stays within the confines of the constitution. Dave is that you.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:32:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.


That would require a new law to be passed by congress. The ATF cannot make new laws, only enforce current laws. The law clearly does not apply to additions or abuse of legal substances.

Based on comments like these, and the posts in the other ATF/MM thread, I think about 70% of Arfcom doesn't actually understand how our legislature works.....


Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?



It's right on the 4473.


"Or" means "or."


ETA: What is the text of the actual law?


"It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to possess a controlled substance unless such substance was obtained directly, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order, from a practitioner, while acting in the course of his professional practice, or except as otherwise authorized by this subchapter or subchapter II of this chapter."

Found here.

Note that nowhere will you see use, but use is inferred possession. You can't use something you never possessed, but if there's no residual proof of usage, then it would be impossible to prove possession.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:33:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Careful glass-house-owner. Read form 4473 & get back to me with the pertinent line.


I work for an FFL, I've read it. It doesn't apply to alcohol or legal, prescribed narcotics.


I think you're wrong there, it references controlled substances which, by popular definition, are outlined by the DEA/FDA and would include prescribed narcotics.

Drug Schedules


Yep. If you're addicted to a controlled substance (including legal meds), MJ, a depressant(alcohol is a depressant), or a stimulant OR you're an unlawful user of any of the same you have to answer "yes" on the 4473.

Using legally prescribed hydrocodone and not addicted to it? Good. Taking your wife's hydrocodone? No guns for you. Addicted to legally prescribed hydrocodone? No guns for you.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:34:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 7:35:06 AM EST by mike12345]
there is no reason to put this out unless the MM card holder lists are added to the background check.

People will just check no and get their gun anyway. just like current drug users who arent Convicted felons
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:36:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By Intune69:
Folks who have ever been to an AA-type program/counseling are next, along with the chronic-pain-meds addicts and the ADHD stimulant medicine users. Sorry... Rules are rules.


That would require a new law to be passed by congress. The ATF cannot make new laws, only enforce current laws. The law clearly does not apply to additions or abuse of legal substances.

Based on comments like these, and the posts in the other ATF/MM thread, I think about 70% of Arfcom doesn't actually understand how our legislature works.....


Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?



It's right on the 4473.


"Or" means "or."


ETA: What is the text of the actual law?


"It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to possess a controlled substance unless such substance was obtained directly, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order, from a practitioner, while acting in the course of his professional practice, or except as otherwise authorized by this subchapter or subchapter II of this chapter."

Found here.

Note that nowhere will you see use, but use is inferred possession. You can't use something you never possessed, but if there's no residual proof of usage, then it would be impossible to prove possession.


That's the law making possession illegal, but what is the law regarding purchasing of firearms by drug users?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:36:53 AM EST
crony capitalism - the drug cartels are the ATFs best customers, and legal marijuana is the antithesis of the illegal drug trade.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:37:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By mike12345:
there is no reason to put this out unless the MM card holder lists are added to the background check.

People will just check no and get their gun anyway. just like current drug users who arent Convicted felons


They were responding to inquiries, not just throwing it out.

Problem is, based on documentation provided by jrzy, the ATF is matching these people up and going after them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:38:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By mike12345:
there is no reason to put this out unless the MM card holder lists are added to the background check.

People will just check no and get their gun anyway. just like current drug users who arent Convicted felons


They were responding to inquiries, not just throwing it out.

Problem is, based on documentation provided by jrzy, the ATF is matching these people up and going after them.


It seems like it would be easy to do, so I'm not surprised that they are.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:40:20 AM EST
Since the State has declared plants and people that consume plants illegal-

No food shall be sold to ATF agents, shun the fuck out of em. How about that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:42:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By simple1:
crony capitalism - the drug cartels are the ATFs best customers, and legal marijuana is the antithesis of the illegal drug trade.



Yeah, and an additional fourteen hundred weapons currently in the hands of Mexican killers courtesy of the ATF can't be all wrong!

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:47:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By somiskid:
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
This is in now way, a duped topic...
really, you were first.


sorry gees

I stopped counting at 12

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:48:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By SAE:

Yeah, and an additional fourteen hundred weapons currently in the hands of Mexican killers courtesy of the ATF can't be all wrong!



you have a problem with mexican gangs/cartels killing eachother?

nobody would complain about this if the 1 american dident get killed.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:49:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By SAE:
Originally Posted By simple1:
crony capitalism - the drug cartels are the ATFs best customers, and legal marijuana is the antithesis of the illegal drug trade.



Yeah, and an additional fourteen hundred weapons currently in the hands of Mexican killers courtesy of the ATF can't be all wrong!



Ah, but if they were STONED Mexican killers we'd have a good reason to go after them then.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:59:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By mike12345:
Originally Posted By SAE:

Yeah, and an additional fourteen hundred weapons currently in the hands of Mexican killers courtesy of the ATF can't be all wrong!



you have a problem with mexican gangs/cartels killing eachother?

nobody would complain about this if the 1 american dident get killed.



Your talking about the Border Patrol agent right?

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:06:32 AM EST
If we vote for ron paul, all of this shit will change.
at the very least, he will get the dea to reschedule marijuana so that it can be considered medication. Hopefully he will go even further than that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:14:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By mike12345:
Originally Posted By SAE:

Yeah, and an additional fourteen hundred weapons currently in the hands of Mexican killers courtesy of the ATF can't be all wrong!



you have a problem with mexican gangs/cartels killing eachother?

nobody would complain about this if the 1 american dident get killed.



I'd rather not have murderous thugs killing civilians, cops and politicians and takeing over a country which shares a 2000 mile border with us, and I'd DEFINATELY rather not have our government help them do it.
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