Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Posted: 5/9/2021 11:57:01 AM EDT
As you probably know by now, ATF is planning to declare that any part “readily convertible” - defined as requiring 8 or less hours of machine shop time- is in fact a firearm.  That is bad in and off itself. However, the implications are far worse.  There is another place in federal firearms law where “readily convertible” standard is used.  Under federal law (at 26 U.S.C. 5845(b)), any firearm that can be “readily restored” or “converted” to fire automatically is a “machinegun.”

If ATF standard is not overturned, every semi auto firearm will be required to be registered as a machine gun.   In the best case scenario, we’ll be faced with 1986-like scenario where all semi autos will be required to be registered, and no new semi auto “machine guns” will be allowed to be manufactured.  If that happens, I expect a new ruling be issued which would disallow converting “semi auto machine guns” to “full auto machine guns”.  Such ruling is guaranteed to be allowed, as no court in US will take responsibility for allowing 20 million machine guns to be created.  In one fell swoop, liberals will be granted one of their key demands- federal gun registration.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:01:27 PM EDT
[#1]
By all means. Declare away.

There are a lot more than 20 million semi auto guns in private hands in the USA.

People aren't buying guns like crazy just to register and/or turn them in.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:02:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
By all means. Declare away.

There are a lot more than 20 million semi auto guns in private hands in the USA.
View Quote


This would not turn out the way they expect if in fact they are that stupid.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:02:44 PM EDT
[#3]
I guess it’s good that I work REALLY slowly.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:05:08 PM EDT
[#4]
It takes me an hour and a half to make an AR lower from a solid billet. If I didn't care about quality of toolpaths or final finish, I could easily chop that down to under an hour...
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:06:37 PM EDT
[#5]
This is a firearm.

Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:07:38 PM EDT
[#6]
The flip side to that being true is that it would effectively open the MG registry. That's why they would not do it.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:08:02 PM EDT
[#7]
If ATF standard is not overturned, every semi auto firearm will be required to be registered as a machine gun.
View Quote


Lol, good luck with that.

I am pretty sure the assembly for an entire rifle from blocks of metal can be done in 8 hours in a machine shop.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:10:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The flip side to that being true is that it would effectively open the MG registry. That's why they would not do it.
View Quote


It wouldn't open anything at all. 922(o) totally precludes that possibility.

Quite simply the law as it is now says if a MG was made - registered or not - after May 1986 then it's not legal for private ownership. Full stop.

Unregistered? Illegal.

Registered after May 86? Illegal.

Turning all semi autos into MGs by fiat would effectively be saying that any non-manual firearm is illegal to own.

How do you think all the new owners over the past year or so would react to such a declaration?
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:11:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The flip side to that being true is that it would effectively open the MG registry. That's why they would not do it.
View Quote

No, it won’t. In California, local DOJ declared that the latest set of assault weapons allowed to be registered cannot be restored to full “preban “ configuration.  No court has overturned them.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:12:38 PM EDT
[#10]
John Browning converted a lever action to fully auto while first studying full auto in the 1800's.  I am sure it took him less than 8 hours as it was very simple.  And it worked the first time.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:13:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


thats what i was just thinking after reading that insanity.  lol

Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:14:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


They have to eliminate the legality of private individuals making their own firearms. This is all part of the plan.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:15:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Those rules may apply to you. They won’t apply to me.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:16:57 PM EDT
[#14]
rule#1: when it starts there's no going back

rule#2: no delusions on how it ends

rule#3: be ok with rule #1 & #2

Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:17:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Readily convertible is such a dumb standard. It either fires in f/a in its current state or it doesn’t.

Funny how European countries with stricter gun laws don’t have this nonsense.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:17:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Remember when alcohol was banned many people back then actually had morality back then & religious views that supported enforcing prohibition and it was still a short lived violent era.

Making all guns machine guns will make all guns machine guns.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:18:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:

If ATF standard is not overturned, every semi auto firearm will be required to be registered as a machine gun.
View Quote


Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:19:07 PM EDT
[#18]
OP, that's not the definition of a 'machine gun'

(b) Machinegun

The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

View Quote
ATF needs to be called out for ignoring the wording of the law. Nothing in it says anything about if a weapon or receiver 'can maybe possibly' be converted into a machine gun. It says. "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Restored means that it was automatic previously
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:19:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Overturn chevron. The bureaucratic state is out of control and unaccountable.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:19:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It wouldn't open anything at all. 922(o) totally precludes that possibility.

Quite simply the law as it is now says if a MG was made - registered or not - after May 1986 then it's not legal for private ownership. Full stop.

Unregistered? Illegal.

Registered after May 86? Illegal.

Turning all semi autos into MGs by fiat would effectively be saying that any non-manual firearm is illegal to own.

How do you think all the new owners over the past year or so would react to such a declaration?
View Quote


That would be an interesting argument to make from a common use perspective, that the most commonly sold and owned rifle in this country over the past two decades isn't legal to own-nevermind the fact the ATF approved them for sale
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:20:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
As you probably know by now, ATF is planning to declare that any part “readily convertible” - defined as requiring 8 or less hours of machine shop time- is in fact a firearm.  That is bad in and off itself. However, the implications are far worse.  There is another place in federal firearms law where “readily convertible” standard is used.  Under federal law (at 26 U.S.C. 5845(b)), any firearm that can be “readily restored” or “converted” to fire automatically is a “machinegun.”
View Quote


I wrote this up back in December 2020:

2. ) Regulate possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act -- Ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

I think with this, he will not go through Congress or through his allies in Big Corp/Big Tech, but rather go through the regulatory state of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

It all hinges on the definition of “readily convertible”, which has been defined as the length of time it takes to convert a firearm to fire automatically.

Courts, naturally have different rulings on the meaning of the term, shown below; which was taken from the following website (LINK)

United States v. Woodlam, 527 F.2d 608 (6th Cir. 1976) held that it was 2~ minutes.

United States v. Smith, 477 F.2d 399 (8th Cir. 1973) held that it was a standard 8 hour working day in a machine shop.

United States v. Cook, 1993 WL 243823 (6th Cir. 1993) held that a disassembled weapon, which was missing a necessary part, was considered “readily restored” simply because the necessary part was available on the open market.  

United States v. TRW Rifle 7.62x51mm Caliber, One Model 14, 447 F.3d 686 (9th Cir. 2006) held that it was a two hour process which required simple tools and a stick welder.

United States v. one TRW Model M14, 7.62 Caliber Rifle from William K. Alverson, 441 F.3d 416 (6th Cir. 2006) held that it was the ability to manufacture the required parts in four to six hours with a properly equipped machine shop or in two to three hours by hand.

United States v. Seven Misc. Firearms, 503 F.Supp. 565 (D.D.C. 1980) held that a firearm is not considered “readily” restorable when conversion would require an expert gunsmith with tools costing up to $65,000, working between “four and perhaps in excess of thirty hours,” using essential parts that can not be found in this country and doing modifications that could damage or destroy the firearm and cause injury to the shooter upon firing.

Guess what's being disseminated now for the AR15 across the internet?

Attachment Attached File


Yep. 3D printed "AR15" Auto Sears (aka Coat Hangers) that "drop right in".

Under all of the cases listed above, the existence of 3D printed autosears renders just about every AR15 pattern rifle "readily convertible" to a machine gun, and thus regulatorily subject to the National Firearms Act, with no legislative action required.

Furthermore, many AR15 lower receivers have "milspec" fire control group cavities; making converting them to a machine gun rather simple through:

A.) The availability of M16 full auto trigger packs / sears at gun shows

B.) The availability of drill jigs to drill out the needed "third hole" at gunshows.

The fact that people RIGHT NOW are milling out 80% lowers and then converting them to a functional firearm via installing Semi-Auto Lower Parts Kits (LPK's) effectively also makes AR15's "readily convertible" into machine guns, since it doesn't take that much more effort to either mill out the fire control group cavity in non-milspec receivers (they have router jigs precisely for this purpose now) or drill that third hole.

Once AR15's are regulatorily determined to be "readily convertible" to Machine Guns by the BATFE, Biden can then, out of the generosity of his heart, write an executive order authorizing BATFE to offer a no questions asked "buyback" program to eliminate the legal liabilities of people who find themselves in possession of a machine gun as defined by ATF regulations.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:21:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Making all guns machine guns will make all guns machine guns.
View Quote


Perfect response!
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:22:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Any gun is convertible to F/A with enough effort.

From Bolt Action Lee to LMG: The Charlton Automatic Rifle


If Biden can't get anything through congress, he'll undoubtedly use the ATF and it's newly appointed rabid anti-gun head to get crazy restrictions in place.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:23:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:25:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP, that's not the definition of a 'machine gun'

ATF needs to be called out for ignoring the wording of the law. Nothing in it says anything about if a weapon or receiver 'can maybe possibly' be converted into a machine gun. It says. "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Restored means that it was automatic previously
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP, that's not the definition of a 'machine gun'

(b) Machinegun

The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

ATF needs to be called out for ignoring the wording of the law. Nothing in it says anything about if a weapon or receiver 'can maybe possibly' be converted into a machine gun. It says. "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." Restored means that it was automatic previously

Wrong. Tell me which open bolt semiautomatics are currently made and available to buy today. Guess why?
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:25:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Overturn chevron. The bureaucratic state is out of control and unaccountable.
View Quote

Chevron only applies in civil matters. In criminal matters deference goes to the accused.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:27:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Most semi autos can be converted to full auto in way less than 8 hours (98+% )

a lot can be done in minutes....glocks, AR's, SKS...etc.

Hell there is an old gunsmith rumor of J.M. Browning turning a lever gun into a full auto gun in less than a day on a bet.
But if you know how things work in guns it is also not an impossibility to start with a lever gun and make it into a full auto
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:29:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Most semi autos can be converted to full auto in way less than 8 hours (98+% )

a lot can be done in minutes....glocks, AR's, SKS...etc.

Hell there is an old gunsmith rumor of J.M. Browning turning a lever gun into a full auto gun in less than a day on a bet. (probably not true)
But if you know how things work in guns it is also not an impossibility to start with a lever gun and make it into a full auto
View Quote


Rumor?

Would you like the patent images or Colt's production agreement? It was called the "Potato Digger" model 1895 machine gun. The prototype was a converted lever action.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:30:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Perfect response!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Making all guns machine guns will make all guns machine guns.


Perfect response!


Once all guns are machine guns, good luck trying to say they aren't in common use.  


OP is fear mongering, but with an ear to the chest of the AFT.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:30:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The flip side to that being true is that it would effectively open the MG registry. That's why they would not do it.
View Quote


Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:34:36 PM EDT
[#32]
What we'll get is non-standard spec nerfed-to-hell new guns... welcome back half-moon carriers, blocks, oversized pins, lowers with non-standard pin locations, ect.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I wrote this up back in December 2020:

2. ) Regulate possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act -- Ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

I think with this, he will not go through Congress or through his allies in Big Corp/Big Tech, but rather go through the regulatory state of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

It all hinges on the definition of "readily convertible", which has been defined as the length of time it takes to convert a firearm to fire automatically.

Courts, naturally have different rulings on the meaning of the term, shown below; which was taken from the following website (LINK)

United States v. Woodlam, 527 F.2d 608 (6th Cir. 1976) held that it was 2~ minutes.

United States v. Smith, 477 F.2d 399 (8th Cir. 1973) held that it was a standard 8 hour working day in a machine shop.

United States v. Cook, 1993 WL 243823 (6th Cir. 1993) held that a disassembled weapon, which was missing a necessary part, was considered "readily restored" simply because the necessary part was available on the open market.  

United States v. TRW Rifle 7.62x51mm Caliber, One Model 14, 447 F.3d 686 (9th Cir. 2006) held that it was a two hour process which required simple tools and a stick welder.

United States v. one TRW Model M14, 7.62 Caliber Rifle from William K. Alverson, 441 F.3d 416 (6th Cir. 2006) held that it was the ability to manufacture the required parts in four to six hours with a properly equipped machine shop or in two to three hours by hand.

United States v. Seven Misc. Firearms, 503 F.Supp. 565 (D.D.C. 1980) held that a firearm is not considered "readily" restorable when conversion would require an expert gunsmith with tools costing up to $65,000, working between "four and perhaps in excess of thirty hours," using essential parts that can not be found in this country and doing modifications that could damage or destroy the firearm and cause injury to the shooter upon firing.

Guess what's being disseminated now for the AR15 across the internet?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20998/AR15Sear_jpg-1698607.JPG

Yep. 3D printed "AR15" Auto Sears (aka Coat Hangers) that "drop right in".

Under all of the cases listed above, the existence of 3D printed autosears renders just about every AR15 pattern rifle "readily convertible" to a machine gun, and thus regulatorily subject to the National Firearms Act, with no legislative action required.

Furthermore, many AR15 lower receivers have "milspec" fire control group cavities; making converting them to a machine gun rather simple through:

A.) The availability of M16 full auto trigger packs / sears at gun shows

B.) The availability of drill jigs to drill out the needed "third hole" at gunshows.

The fact that people RIGHT NOW are milling out 80% lowers and then converting them to a functional firearm via installing Semi-Auto Lower Parts Kits (LPK's) effectively also makes AR15's "readily convertible" into machine guns, since it doesn't take that much more effort to either mill out the fire control group cavity in non-milspec receivers (they have router jigs precisely for this purpose now) or drill that third hole.

Once AR15's are regulatorily determined to be "readily convertible" to Machine Guns by the BATFE, Biden can then, out of the generosity of his heart, write an executive order authorizing BATFE to offer a no questions asked "buyback" program to eliminate the legal liabilities of people who find themselves in possession of a machine gun as defined by ATF regulations.
View Quote

The statute says nothing about "readily convertible" to a machine gun. It says "readily restored"
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:36:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Once all guns are machine guns, good luck trying to say they aren't in common use.  

OP is fear mongering, but with an ear to the chest of the AFT.
View Quote


I don't think you understand the point of all this.

All this is basically "Harassment and Interdiction" fires on the 2A movement.

The idea is to do things that will absorb the energies of the 2A movement, because unlike the other side, we don't have unlimited slush funds through backdoor deals with politicians and media figures, or free media assistance from every "news" organization out there.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:37:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
By all means. Declare away.

There are a lot more than 20 million semi auto guns in private hands in the USA.

People aren't buying guns like crazy just to register and/or turn them in.
View Quote



They aren't buying them with that intent, but when a few houses are burned they will comply.

When neighbors and family members are collecting snitch rewards they will comply.

I could go on, but the point is that the odds are in ATF's favor.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:38:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What we'll get is non-standard spec nerfed-to-hell new guns... welcome back half-moon carriers, blocks, oversized pins, lowers with non-standard pin locations, ect.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What we'll get is non-standard spec nerfed-to-hell new guns... welcome back half-moon carriers, blocks, oversized pins, lowers with non-standard pin locations, ect.


There wouldn't be lightning links without the nerfed guns.

About eight seconds after requiring all of that BS there would be open source public designs on conversion devices. Semi autos - by their very nature - are all trivial to convert to fully automatic function.

Quoted:
Quoted:
By all means. Declare away.

There are a lot more than 20 million semi auto guns in private hands in the USA.

People aren't buying guns like crazy just to register and/or turn them in.



They aren't buying them with that intent, but when a few houses are burned they will comply.

When neighbors and family members are collecting snitch rewards they will comply.

I could go on, but the point is that the odds are in ATF's favor.


How'd that work with alcohol prohibition?

How is it currently working with prohibition of dozens of popular drugs?
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:40:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It wouldn't open anything at all. 922(o) totally precludes that possibility.

Quite simply the law as it is now says if a MG was made - registered or not - after May 1986 then it's not legal for private ownership. Full stop.

Unregistered? Illegal.

Registered after May 86? Illegal.

Turning all semi autos into MGs by fiat would effectively be saying that any non-manual firearm is illegal to own.

How do you think all the new owners over the past year or so would react to such a declaration?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The flip side to that being true is that it would effectively open the MG registry. That's why they would not do it.


It wouldn't open anything at all. 922(o) totally precludes that possibility.

Quite simply the law as it is now says if a MG was made - registered or not - after May 1986 then it's not legal for private ownership. Full stop.

Unregistered? Illegal.

Registered after May 86? Illegal.

Turning all semi autos into MGs by fiat would effectively be saying that any non-manual firearm is illegal to own.

How do you think all the new owners over the past year or so would react to such a declaration?



To that I say to the left, stop being fucking pussies, you want this party started then go for it already.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:41:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The statute says nothing about "readily convertible" to a machine gun. It says "readily restored"
View Quote

So then why did the ATF rule that open bolt semiautomatics were machineguns?
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:46:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So then why did the ATF rule that open bolt semiautomatics were machineguns?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

The statute says nothing about "readily convertible" to a machine gun. It says "readily restored"

So then why did the ATF rule that open bolt semiautomatics were machineguns?


Much as with bumpstocks the ATF didn't say "these are now MGs". They said "these were always MGs and always have been". The difference is that when they did that in the early 80s new registrations were allowed. Nowadays there would be no such reasoning to allow owners to continue owning them.

The jaws have been fairly steadily closing since 1934.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:46:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Let's send one to the Supreme Court, and ask them to fire a round, just one round, using that.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:49:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I wrote this up back in December 2020:

2. ) Regulate possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act -- Ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

I think with this, he will not go through Congress or through his allies in Big Corp/Big Tech, but rather go through the regulatory state of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

It all hinges on the definition of “readily convertible”, which has been defined as the length of time it takes to convert a firearm to fire automatically.

Courts, naturally have different rulings on the meaning of the term, shown below; which was taken from the following website (LINK)

United States v. Woodlam, 527 F.2d 608 (6th Cir. 1976) held that it was 2~ minutes.

United States v. Smith, 477 F.2d 399 (8th Cir. 1973) held that it was a standard 8 hour working day in a machine shop.

United States v. Cook, 1993 WL 243823 (6th Cir. 1993) held that a disassembled weapon, which was missing a necessary part, was considered “readily restored” simply because the necessary part was available on the open market.  

United States v. TRW Rifle 7.62x51mm Caliber, One Model 14, 447 F.3d 686 (9th Cir. 2006) held that it was a two hour process which required simple tools and a stick welder.

United States v. one TRW Model M14, 7.62 Caliber Rifle from William K. Alverson, 441 F.3d 416 (6th Cir. 2006) held that it was the ability to manufacture the required parts in four to six hours with a properly equipped machine shop or in two to three hours by hand.

United States v. Seven Misc. Firearms, 503 F.Supp. 565 (D.D.C. 1980) held that a firearm is not considered “readily” restorable when conversion would require an expert gunsmith with tools costing up to $65,000, working between “four and perhaps in excess of thirty hours,” using essential parts that can not be found in this country and doing modifications that could damage or destroy the firearm and cause injury to the shooter upon firing.

Guess what's being disseminated now for the AR15 across the internet?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20998/AR15Sear_jpg-1698607.JPG

Yep. 3D printed "AR15" Auto Sears (aka Coat Hangers) that "drop right in".

Under all of the cases listed above, the existence of 3D printed autosears renders just about every AR15 pattern rifle "readily convertible" to a machine gun, and thus regulatorily subject to the National Firearms Act, with no legislative action required.

Furthermore, many AR15 lower receivers have "milspec" fire control group cavities; making converting them to a machine gun rather simple through:

A.) The availability of M16 full auto trigger packs / sears at gun shows

B.) The availability of drill jigs to drill out the needed "third hole" at gunshows.

The fact that people RIGHT NOW are milling out 80% lowers and then converting them to a functional firearm via installing Semi-Auto Lower Parts Kits (LPK's) effectively also makes AR15's "readily convertible" into machine guns, since it doesn't take that much more effort to either mill out the fire control group cavity in non-milspec receivers (they have router jigs precisely for this purpose now) or drill that third hole.

Once AR15's are regulatorily determined to be "readily convertible" to Machine Guns by the BATFE, Biden can then, out of the generosity of his heart, write an executive order authorizing BATFE to offer a no questions asked "buyback" program to eliminate the legal liabilities of people who find themselves in possession of a machine gun as defined by ATF regulations.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
As you probably know by now, ATF is planning to declare that any part “readily convertible” - defined as requiring 8 or less hours of machine shop time- is in fact a firearm.  That is bad in and off itself. However, the implications are far worse.  There is another place in federal firearms law where “readily convertible” standard is used.  Under federal law (at 26 U.S.C. 5845(b)), any firearm that can be “readily restored” or “converted” to fire automatically is a “machinegun.”


I wrote this up back in December 2020:

2. ) Regulate possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act -- Ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

I think with this, he will not go through Congress or through his allies in Big Corp/Big Tech, but rather go through the regulatory state of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

It all hinges on the definition of “readily convertible”, which has been defined as the length of time it takes to convert a firearm to fire automatically.

Courts, naturally have different rulings on the meaning of the term, shown below; which was taken from the following website (LINK)

United States v. Woodlam, 527 F.2d 608 (6th Cir. 1976) held that it was 2~ minutes.

United States v. Smith, 477 F.2d 399 (8th Cir. 1973) held that it was a standard 8 hour working day in a machine shop.

United States v. Cook, 1993 WL 243823 (6th Cir. 1993) held that a disassembled weapon, which was missing a necessary part, was considered “readily restored” simply because the necessary part was available on the open market.  

United States v. TRW Rifle 7.62x51mm Caliber, One Model 14, 447 F.3d 686 (9th Cir. 2006) held that it was a two hour process which required simple tools and a stick welder.

United States v. one TRW Model M14, 7.62 Caliber Rifle from William K. Alverson, 441 F.3d 416 (6th Cir. 2006) held that it was the ability to manufacture the required parts in four to six hours with a properly equipped machine shop or in two to three hours by hand.

United States v. Seven Misc. Firearms, 503 F.Supp. 565 (D.D.C. 1980) held that a firearm is not considered “readily” restorable when conversion would require an expert gunsmith with tools costing up to $65,000, working between “four and perhaps in excess of thirty hours,” using essential parts that can not be found in this country and doing modifications that could damage or destroy the firearm and cause injury to the shooter upon firing.

Guess what's being disseminated now for the AR15 across the internet?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/20998/AR15Sear_jpg-1698607.JPG

Yep. 3D printed "AR15" Auto Sears (aka Coat Hangers) that "drop right in".

Under all of the cases listed above, the existence of 3D printed autosears renders just about every AR15 pattern rifle "readily convertible" to a machine gun, and thus regulatorily subject to the National Firearms Act, with no legislative action required.

Furthermore, many AR15 lower receivers have "milspec" fire control group cavities; making converting them to a machine gun rather simple through:

A.) The availability of M16 full auto trigger packs / sears at gun shows

B.) The availability of drill jigs to drill out the needed "third hole" at gunshows.

The fact that people RIGHT NOW are milling out 80% lowers and then converting them to a functional firearm via installing Semi-Auto Lower Parts Kits (LPK's) effectively also makes AR15's "readily convertible" into machine guns, since it doesn't take that much more effort to either mill out the fire control group cavity in non-milspec receivers (they have router jigs precisely for this purpose now) or drill that third hole.

Once AR15's are regulatorily determined to be "readily convertible" to Machine Guns by the BATFE, Biden can then, out of the generosity of his heart, write an executive order authorizing BATFE to offer a no questions asked "buyback" program to eliminate the legal liabilities of people who find themselves in possession of a machine gun as defined by ATF regulations.


Great post.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:50:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Much as with bumpstocks the ATF didn't say "these are now MGs". They said "these were always MGs and always have been". The difference is that when they did that in the early 80s new registrations were allowed. Nowadays there would be no such reasoning to allow owners to continue owning them.

The jaws have been fairly steadily closing since 1934.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

The statute says nothing about "readily convertible" to a machine gun. It says "readily restored"

So then why did the ATF rule that open bolt semiautomatics were machineguns?


Much as with bumpstocks the ATF didn't say "these are now MGs". They said "these were always MGs and always have been". The difference is that when they did that in the early 80s new registrations were allowed. Nowadays there would be no such reasoning to allow owners to continue owning them.

The jaws have been fairly steadily closing since 1934.

Considering that AR's with unregistered DIAS have already been used in crimes (most notable case was that USAF guy who killed a federal LEO), as well as Glocks with the Chinese made auto backplates, it's perfectly possible for FATF to come out and tell everyone their Glock/AR was a MG from day 1.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:50:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So then why did the ATF rule that open bolt semiautomatics were machineguns?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

The statute says nothing about "readily convertible" to a machine gun. It says "readily restored"

So then why did the ATF rule that open bolt semiautomatics were machineguns?

no idea. here is the statute that defines a machine gun

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845

(b) Machinegun

The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:55:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There wouldn't be lightning links without the nerfed guns.

About eight seconds after requiring all of that BS there would be open source public designs on conversion devices. Semi autos - by their very nature - are all trivial to convert to fully automatic function.



How'd that work with alcohol prohibition?

How is it currently working with prohibition of dozens of popular drugs?
View Quote




The antigun people are OK with drugs.
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:56:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It takes me an hour and a half to make an AR lower from a solid billet. If I didn't care about quality of toolpaths or final finish, I could easily chop that down to under an hour...
View Quote

A billet of metal can be made into a firearm in less than eight hours in a machine shop.  A spool of 3D filament can be a firearm in less than eight hours in a machine shop.  A shovel can be a firearm in less than eight hours in a machine shop.  The existence of a machine shop would be illegal.  
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:58:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Blah blah blah blah

BLAH.  

(That’s not Directed toward you OP)
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:58:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

no idea. here is the statute that defines a machine gun

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845

(b) Machinegun

The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
View Quote

That's the thing - the ATF doesn't interpret "restored" in the literal sense. To them, restored may as well mean "converted."
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 12:58:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Rumor?

Would you like the patent images or Colt's production agreement? It was called the "Potato Digger" model 1895 machine gun. The prototype was a converted lever action.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Most semi autos can be converted to full auto in way less than 8 hours (98+% )

a lot can be done in minutes....glocks, AR's, SKS...etc.

Hell there is an old gunsmith rumor of J.M. Browning turning a lever gun into a full auto gun in less than a day on a bet. (probably not true)
But if you know how things work in guns it is also not an impossibility to start with a lever gun and make it into a full auto


Rumor?

Would you like the patent images or Colt's production agreement? It was called the "Potato Digger" model 1895 machine gun. The prototype was a converted lever action.



Public school education.  
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 1:06:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They have to eliminate the legality of private individuals making their own firearms. This is all part of the plan.
View Quote



Bingo.  But after watching Mr. Gunsngear video, it seems like they want to go a step further and require currently owned guns made post 1968, EVEN FACTORY MADE GUNS, to get the uppers serialized.  He made some VERY good points in his video.  This proposed rule could literally make it so the government could require an FFL transfer to buy an AR upper receiver or a Sig pistol slide.  Seriously, this proposal is wider than the grand canyon for abuse by the far left.

For those who have not watched Mr. Gunsngear video, here it is:

ATF To Redefine Ghost Guns, Silencers, Receivers, & More: Are You Now A Felon?
Link Posted: 5/9/2021 1:08:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
By all means. Declare away.

There are a lot more than 20 million semi auto guns in private hands in the USA.

People aren't buying guns like crazy just to register and/or turn them in.
View Quote
The majority of people in my city dont even have car insurance , a valid registration or tag on their car .And they own guns. I doubt this will go as
planned
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top