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Posted: 10/25/2004 5:25:02 PM EST
From the Violence Policy Center:

3. Civilian assault weapons are not machine guns. They are semiautomatic weapons. (Since 1986 federal law has banned the sale to civilians of new machine guns.) The trigger of a semiautomatic weapon must be pulled separately for each round fired. It is a mistake to call civilian assault weapons "automatic weapons" or "machine guns."

4. However, this is a distinction without a difference in terms of killing power. Civilian semiautomatic assault weapons incorporate all of the functional design features that make assault weapons so deadly. They are arguably more deadly than military versions, because most experts agree that semiautomatic fire is more accurate ;and thus more lethal than automatic fire.

_____________

Would this help us repeal the 1986 machine gun ban?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:27:15 PM EST
What? A gun control group actually getting its facts right. Its a sign of the appocalypse.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:28:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:_____________

Would this help us repeal the 1986 machine gun ban?




No
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:29:15 PM EST
That's a good argument for legalizing machine guns.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:29:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:31:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:32:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:35:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
They are arguably more deadly than military versions, because most experts agree that semiautomatic fire is more accurate ;and thus more lethal than automatic fire.



In other words, we're screwed either way. Either we have machine guns that kill 600 children with every pull of the trigger or we have super accurate assasination devices.

Can't people just accept that its only a rifle?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:37:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:38:33 PM EST
Shotar,

Do you think there is support to bring it up for a vote if we win all the key races in congress we are supposed to next week?

CRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:39:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:40:48 PM EST
Essentially what they are saying is an AR-15 is MORE DEADLY than an M-16.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:40:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:42:19 PM EST
Wouldn' that technically be true if you compared a quality AR versus a beat up used military M-16?

CRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:43:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
No, the 1986 ban is not going to be repealed now or ever. It is going to stay and there will never be sufficient support in congress to get it repealed. I know that not what you wanted to hear, but it is a fact.



I hope when Bush gets reelected he issues an executive order to debunk it...
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:48:49 PM EST

4. However, this is a distinction without a difference in terms of killing power. Civilian semiautomatic assault weapons incorporate all of the functional design features that make assault weapons so deadly. They are arguably more deadly than military versions, because most experts agree that semiautomatic fire is more accurate ;and thus more lethal than automatic fire.


And still they manage screw it up. Military weapons have the option of semi-auto fire.

This is an attack on our culture. How many of us use "assault weapons" to illegally kill people? Nada. If you illegally kill somebody with your "assault weapon", you are no longer a part of our culture, and good riddance.

Our right to bear arms was affirmed in the Constution by our forefathers to prevent people like the anti-gun crowd and the courts from rendering us defenseless.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:49:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:51:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:53:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 5:55:50 PM EST by CRC]
Well if we get somebody like Tom Coburn elected, look out.

The Demorats, who passed it in the 1st place, will not be in control.

Sure Reagan signed it but only after the NRA told him to. The NRA thought they could repeal it but the Dems held the House until 1994.

Now they don't, nor the Senate nor the WH.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 5:56:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:
That's a good argument for legalizing machine guns.



+1 and a big
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:07:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
From the Violence Policy Center:

4. However, this is a distinction without a difference in terms of killing power. Civilian semiautomatic assault weapons incorporate all of the functional design features that make assault weapons so deadly. They are arguably more deadly than military versions, because most experts agree that semiautomatic fire is more accurate ;and thus more lethal than automatic fire.




5. And hunters who use high powered bolt action rifles use some of the same rifles as military sniper's of the Viet Nam era when they had "off the shelf" rifles purchased by the Army and Marines. Many of these same rifles are currently used by Police snipers today. These rifles have ultra accurate optical enhancing scopes and can hit targets at very long distances; and thus are more lethal than semiautomatic fire.

Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:11:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By shotar:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Shotar,

Do you think there is support to bring it up for a vote if we win all the key races in congress we are supposed to next week?

CRC



No. The machinegun issue is a non issue. It never was and never will be on the table again.



That's what the majority of people said about the AWB expiring. Never happen. Won't happen. With attitudes like this, who needs handgun control?



Exactly. Its time to stop being defensive and to start thinking offensively, since the best defense is a good offense right? Imagine clamoring for mgs and compromising with getting suppressors of the NFA list. Then return to clamoring for mgs. Its the same tactics the gun banners use, so why not turn to tables on them?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:20:45 PM EST
We have to go on the offensive.

The AWB went away.

That leaves just one substantial Federal gun ban- the ban on machine guns.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:42:56 PM EST
I'm just curious, but how would one actually proposition a congressman or senator to author a bill to repeal FOPA '86? I mean, I know if I wrote my senator, he would just tell me to FOAD, even though Senator Chambliss is a rather pro-gun individual. I don't I have the clout, is all. Now if I was George Soros... But seriously, would it require a huge group of us, or a lot of money, or what? How about the ARFCOMers getting together and marching?
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:42:58 PM EST
What the hell is "killing power" anyway - other than a catchy phrase to throw around and scare the ignorant? It's not like the VPC even pretends that they do not have a specific agenda.

Where's that oft-repeated story about the female reporter who has all of the functional design features of a ho? It seems to happen 10x a year, with a slight variation each time.

From VPC


Semiautomatic assault weapons incorporate specific design features, such as detachable
ammunition magazines and pistol grips, intended to enhance their killing power by making
it possible to spray a large number of bullets quickly and to reload easily. This
combination of characteristics is unique to assault weapons and make them a special
threat to law enforcement personnel.



And if you weren't pissed off enough at them already:


Every Handgun is Aimed at You: The Case for Banning Handguns, by Violence Policy Center Executive Director Josh Sugarmann, covers a wide range of issues in 10 chapters demonstrating that banning handguns is the most effective way to reduce gun violence in America.



Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:45:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 6:47:14 PM EST by CRC]
You mean repeal 922 (o).

It would take a lot of pressure but with the AWB gone, GOA and NRA can focus on it.

We have to get a larger majority in the senate, maybe 4-5 seats.


CRC
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:50:04 PM EST
More thrust per squeeze...
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:04:35 PM EST
Personally I've always been for a firearms component to every Physical Education program in every high school to match drivers ed and sex ed. A program that instills respect and competancy in dealing with firearms will drastically reduce the number of accidental shootings by inexperienced or untrained firearms handlers. I knew a kid back in school who was killed when some idiot pulled out a Ruger .22 at an off-campus frat party. He handed it around until it got to another idiot (who had never TOUCHED a gun before), who pulled the trigger. Guns exist, and will continue to regardless of their legal status. Sticking one's head in the sand is likely to result in one being shot in the ass.

Do it for the children!
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:47:01 PM EST
We all know the AR/15 is just as deadly as an M 16 just not a burst type weapon!!!


I say let them know it right from the get go!! We are not trying to make you think that a semi-auto could ever win a War!

Just never let them forget about the battle of the bulge!!!

And the same people that need to own these guns had fathers that used them!

I'm a babby boomer and my gun of choice would be an M14,or am M16!!!

Untill a law is passed that relieves me from the oath that I raised my right hand to take!

I will protect this land from all powers ,Domestic and forieng!


Even without a spellchecker this looks bad for Terrourists as they have no buiness being here!


Bob
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