I'm sure this topic has been discussed before. I missed it then. Dupe nazis leave a link or go away

*****

Talk radio has been buzzing the last couple of weeks about the dangers of the Iranians hitting us with an EMP weapon. So, are the dangers of EMP devices overblown? Or should we be very, very afraid?

SF is the go-to resource for EMP

the most effective EMP generator happens to be a nuke, so yes I'd be a bit afraid

Go to the SF and read "Lights Out".  You'll be making your own tinfoil hat by the 5th chapter. Damn good story, and a very real possibility.

Quoted: SF is the go-to resource for EMP

What's "SF"?

not this shit again

Quoted: Go to the SF and read "Lights Out".  You'll be making your own tinfoil hat by the 5th chapter. Damn good story, and a very real possibility.

Yep, the world went to hell just like that.

Quoted: Quoted: SF is the go-to resource for EMP What's "SF"?

survival forum, on this board somewhere....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=123

Quoted: Quoted: SF is the go-to resource for EMP What's "SF"?

survival forum, part of the 'general' group.

There always seems to be at least one EMP thread active there.

Nope, whats going to happen, will happen.

You need to accept the fact that somethings are out fo your control.

I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy

Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy

Considering how many ARFCOMers would be pissed off that the Iranians destroyed their EOTechs and Aimpoints, they'd better make peace with their dear and fluffy lord before they push the button...

Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy

There is something called IRON SIGHTS,

Quoted: Nope, whats going to happen, will happen. You need to accept the fact that somethings are out fo your control.

We in the SF accept that.
But we prepare for the eventualities that are out of our control.

Quoted: Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy Considering how many ARFCOMers would be pissed off that the Iranians destroyed their EOTechs and Aimpoints, they'd better make peace with their dear and fluffy lord before they push the button...

I'd be pissed that I wouldn't be able to get in my safe!

Quoted: Nope, whats going to happen, will happen. You need to accept the fact that somethings are out fo your control.

I can't control whether or not a drunk gangbanger breaks into my house at three in the morning. I CAN affect the events immediately afterward, however.

Just because you can't stop EMP doesn't mean you can't be ready for it.

Damn your right.

Wonder if I could buy a backup keypad to put in a lead case.

FREE

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy Considering how many ARFCOMers would be pissed off that the Iranians destroyed their EOTechs and Aimpoints, they'd better make peace with their dear and fluffy lord before they push the button... I'd be pissed that I wouldn't be able to get in my safe!

Ordinary terrorists couldn't produce the technology to destroy our country with EMP.

If we get hit with EMP, you can bet it's WW3 and live will end as you know it.

Quoted: Quoted: Nope, whats going to happen, will happen. You need to accept the fact that somethings are out fo your control. I can't control whether or not a drunk gangbanger breaks into my house at three in the morning. I CAN affect the events immediately afterward, however. Just because you can't stop EMP doesn't mean you can't be ready for it.

Hate to tell you this, BUT if there ever is a EMP burst, you can bet your number is up very very very soon afterwards.

Quoted: Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy Considering how many ARFCOMers would be pissed off that the Iranians destroyed their EOTechs and Aimpoints, they'd better make peace with their dear and fluffy lord before they push the button...

Three words my friend: Tri Ji Con

EMP is not as easy as it seems, nuke must be detonated at a specific altitude requiring technology that would be as good at targeting as hitting highly specific target versus just specific area.
But, it is quite a reality and I believe it was part of the russian doctrine of attack. Probably still is thanks to putin.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nope, whats going to happen, will happen. You need to accept the fact that somethings are out fo your control. I can't control whether or not a drunk gangbanger breaks into my house at three in the morning. I CAN affect the events immediately afterward, however. Just because you can't stop EMP doesn't mean you can't be ready for it. Hate to tell you this, BUT if there ever is a EMP burst, you can bet your number is up very very very soon afterwards.

I've lived without electricity before. And frankly, most of us in the SF have enough food, water, and ammo stocked up in secure locations to supply a third world country. Maybe YOUR number is up, but I plan on making do and getting by.

I bet you're the type who says if nuclear war breaks out, he'll just step outside and wait to get evaporated.

That is why ACOG's kick ass.  Also if a EMP were a result of a nuke, you have more problems than worrying about your holo sight.

Quoted: I've lived without electricity before. And frankly, most of us in the SF have enough food, water, and ammo stocked up in secure locations to supply a third world country. Maybe YOUR number is up, but I plan on making do and getting by. I bet you're the type who says if nuclear war breaks out, he'll just step outside and wait to get evaporated.

I have lived without power before also, no big deal.

How long do you think you will live in a fall out zone? Not very long, no matter what kind of uber tactical survival skills and equipment you have.

As for the nuke comment, buddy, when that shit happens, no one will know who will live and who will die till it is over and done with. There will be no internet, no tv, no radio, you will not know what, where or who is there or not there for days, weeks or months.

It will not be 1 or 2 nukes, it will be hundreds of them. They are alot larger and powerfull than what we dropped on Japan in WWII.

I am all for having water and some food and other sthings et back, but there is a line you cross from being prepared to being paranoid.


Enjoy the time you have now, and stop worring about shit you have no control over.

EMP (or Electromagnetic Pulse) is nothing more than a very large wavefront of energy across the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

If you consider Gamma Radiation and Hard X-Rays as well as Infrared Radiation then yes it can kill you.

Otherwise, No. (unless you have a pacemaker!, or happen to be up in the Air on a Jet Airliner when one goes off!)

What EMP normally refers to is a pulse of energy down in the Radio and Microwave Frequency Range. This pulse will create a large current in conductors. And for Semi Conductor Devices (Electronic Ignition on Cars made after 1979, Calculators, Computers, Cell Phones, Digital Cameras, the nice little sophisticated electronic weapons sight mounted on your M-4 gery, etc.) will be shorted out and fried.

What does this mean for the Military?
The Military USED to have this thing called MIL-SPEC, (and our Military used to have contractors build EMP hardened electronics) but unfortunately (Former) Secretary of Defense Perry did away with Mil-spec. The Military is mandated by law to use COTS (Commercial Off the Shelf) electronics wherever and whenever they are applicable for a system. And meet the systems requirements.

Since most COTS electronics are NOT hardened against EMP, they will be toast if they are exposed to a strong EMP pulse.

ie. your favorite H2 Hummer won't start, but they guy down the street with an old Muscle car (or some old beater) that still uses Points under the Distributor Cap, and uses a Carbuerator instead of a fuel pump, and does NOT have an Anti-Lock Brake System: will work just fine.

----------------------------

Now then, a more interesting question would be on Bomb powered X-Ray Lasers, or MASERS (a Microwave Analog of the Laser) placed in an Low Earth (Polar) Orbit. The atmosphere is mostly transparent to Electromagnetic Radiation in the Microwave Range (except for specific frequencies that are absorbed by those Pesky Water Molecules).

This means that you can have a beam of light that will stay mostly coherent and collimated by the time it punches through the atmosphere and hits its target on the surface.

MASERS can be used with a high degree of accuracy to fry an enemies electronics, start forest fires (satellites in LEO's move quite quickly). (Think of Curtis LeMay's program of Firebombing Tokyo during WWII).

No need to worry. The Iranians don't have the capability to produce or deploy an EMP weapon.

Quoted: Quoted: I've lived without electricity before. And frankly, most of us in the SF have enough food, water, and ammo stocked up in secure locations to supply a third world country. Maybe YOUR number is up, but I plan on making do and getting by. I bet you're the type who says if nuclear war breaks out, he'll just step outside and wait to get evaporated. I have lived without power before also, no big deal. How long do you think you will live in a fall out zone? Not very long, no matter what kind of uber tactical survival skills and equipment you have. As for the nuke comment, buddy, when that shit happens, no one will know who will live and who will die till it is over and done with. There will be no internet, no tv, no radio, you will not know what, where or who is there or not there for days, weeks or months. It will not be 1 or 2 nukes, it will be hundreds of them. They are alot larger and powerfull than what we dropped on Japan in WWII. I am all for having water and some food and other sthings et back, but there is a line you cross from being prepared to being paranoid. Enjoy the time you have now, and stop worring about shit you have no control over.

I'm well acquainted with what would happen in a nuclear war, thanks. And there are those of us who can figure where the closest nukes detonated, determine likely wind speed and direction to predict fall-out patterns. Then there's easily available NBC equipment that will keep you alive long enough to get to a safe area.

I don't need to be worried/paranoid because I have a plan.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've lived without electricity before. And frankly, most of us in the SF have enough food, water, and ammo stocked up in secure locations to supply a third world country. Maybe YOUR number is up, but I plan on making do and getting by. I bet you're the type who says if nuclear war breaks out, he'll just step outside and wait to get evaporated. I have lived without power before also, no big deal. How long do you think you will live in a fall out zone? Not very long, no matter what kind of uber tactical survival skills and equipment you have. As for the nuke comment, buddy, when that shit happens, no one will know who will live and who will die till it is over and done with. There will be no internet, no tv, no radio, you will not know what, where or who is there or not there for days, weeks or months. It will not be 1 or 2 nukes, it will be hundreds of them. They are alot larger and powerfull than what we dropped on Japan in WWII. I am all for having water and some food and other sthings et back, but there is a line you cross from being prepared to being paranoid. Enjoy the time you have now, and stop worring about shit you have no control over. I'm well acquainted with what would happen in a nuclear war, thanks. And there are those of us who can figure where the closest nukes detonated, determine likely wind speed and direction to predict fall-out patterns. Then there's easily available NBC equipment that will keep you alive long enough to get to a safe area. I don't need to be worried/paranoid because I have a plan.

Good for you, now how about going out and enjoying life....

All it takes is a korean sub off the coast of cali to launch a nuke warhead over the continental US and detonate 200 miles above the surface.  It would shut out almost every electrical device in the mainland for months.

Quoted: Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy There is something called IRON SIGHTS,

For some people thats like telling them to use the buttons on the tv instead of the remote control...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd be pissed off that an EMP attack messed up my EOtecthingy There is something called IRON SIGHTS, For some people thats like telling them to use the buttons on the tv instead of the remote control...

Oh damn so true.......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've lived without electricity before. And frankly, most of us in the SF have enough food, water, and ammo stocked up in secure locations to supply a third world country. Maybe YOUR number is up, but I plan on making do and getting by. I bet you're the type who says if nuclear war breaks out, he'll just step outside and wait to get evaporated. I have lived without power before also, no big deal. How long do you think you will live in a fall out zone? Not very long, no matter what kind of uber tactical survival skills and equipment you have. As for the nuke comment, buddy, when that shit happens, no one will know who will live and who will die till it is over and done with. There will be no internet, no tv, no radio, you will not know what, where or who is there or not there for days, weeks or months. It will not be 1 or 2 nukes, it will be hundreds of them. They are alot larger and powerfull than what we dropped on Japan in WWII. I am all for having water and some food and other sthings et back, but there is a line you cross from being prepared to being paranoid. Enjoy the time you have now, and stop worring about shit you have no control over. I'm well acquainted with what would happen in a nuclear war, thanks. And there are those of us who can figure where the closest nukes detonated, determine likely wind speed and direction to predict fall-out patterns. Then there's easily available NBC equipment that will keep you alive long enough to get to a safe area. I don't need to be worried/paranoid because I have a plan. Good for you, now how about going out and enjoying life....

Who says I don't?

Quoted: Good for you, now how about going out and enjoying life....

Who says I don't?



I wonder at times, really I do.  

Exactly how can "small electronics" be "hardened" against EMP?

Quoted: Exactly how can "small electronics" be "hardened" against EMP?

faraday box.

I love how everyone thinks a nuclear war would end all life, I see the communists brainwashing in the Cold War paid off.

The actual nuclear blasts? Powerful, yes, but there aren't enough nuclear weapons in the world to kill every American, much less the whole world. There were some statistics saying that put out in the 1970s by a bunch of hippie freaks at UC Berkley. The problem with those statistics assume that every kiloton of nuclear weapon would kill with the same death/kiloton ratio as the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The problem with that is two fold, first it takes five times the kilotonnage to double the blast radius of a nuclear weapon, not simply twice as much. Second it assumes every nuclear target would have the population density of Hiroshima. I hate to break this to you 'NuclearWar=EndOfLife' freaks, but there are only so many cities in the United States, a great number of Americans live out in the backwoods of nowhere, and no one will waste a nuke to kill 1,000 rednecks.


The fallout? Not as big a problem as its made out to be, fallout is only going to be bad if you're directly downwind from a nuclear target, and there are lots of people who aren't downwind of any targets, al they'll have to do is stay inside for a few weeks and run air cleaners you can get at the Home Depot. Even if you are downwind all it takes is a simple fallout shelter to get you through, the Radiation is from radioactive dust in the air, not the air itself, a simple HEPA filter will make the air safe.

'Nuclear Winter'? A myth, the amount of dust that a full scale nuclear war would throw up would barley equal the amount of dust some of the larger volcanoes in human history have put out, last I checked those didn't wipe out mankind either.



I'm not saying life wouldn't change, it would, be life changing events have happened before, human-kind survives, and we'll survive a nuclear war if it comes. There simply aren't enough nuclear weapons in the world to kill everyone, nor enough of them to be able to trigger an ice age. Sorry, it won't be the end of mankind, just another dark night in a long history of them.



Sorry to put a damper on your 'Mankind Will Kill Itself' circle-jerk.

Quoted: I love how everyone thinks a nuclear war would end all life, I see the communists brainwashing in the Cold War paid off. The actual nuclear blasts? Powerful, yes, but there aren't enough nuclear weapons in the world to kill every American, much less the whole world. There were some statistics saying that put out in the 1970s by a bunch of hippie freaks at UC Berkley. The problem with those statistics assume that every kiloton of nuclear weapon would kill with the same death/kiloton ratio as the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The problem with that is two fold, first it takes five times the kilotonnage to double the blast radius of a nuclear weapon, not simply twice as much. Second it assumes every nuclear target would have the population density of Hiroshima. I hate to break this to you 'NuclearWar=EndOfLife' freaks, but there are only so many cities in the United States, a great number of Americans live out in the backwoods of nowhere, and no one will waste a nuke to kill 1,000 rednecks. The fallout? Not as big a problem as its made out to be, fallout is only going to be bad if you're directly downwind from a nuclear target, and there are lots of people who aren't downwind of any targets, al they'll have to do is stay inside for a few weeks and run air cleaners you can get at the Home Depot. Even if you are downwind all it takes is a simple fallout shelter to get you through, the Radiation is from radioactive dust in the air, not the air itself, a simple HEPA filter will make the air safe. 'Nuclear Winter'? A myth, the amount of dust that a full scale nuclear war would throw up would barley equal the amount of dust some of the larger volcanoes in human history have put out, last I checked those didn't wipe out mankind either. I'm not saying life wouldn't change, it would, be life changing events have happened before, human-kind survives, and we'll survive a nuclear war if it comes. There simply aren't enough nuclear weapons in the world to kill everyone, nor enough of them to be able to trigger an ice age. Sorry, it won't be the end of mankind, just another dark night in a long history of them. Sorry to put a damper on your 'Mankind Will Kill Itself' circle-jerk.

Where do you live?

Lets see, I live in Oklahoma, that means I have

Tinker in OKC, MacCallister ammo dept, FtSill in Lawton, Altus air base and Enid Air base.

I am in the middle of all of those places, I figure Oklahoma wil be toast if a full out nuclaer exchange was to happen.

So yes, I doubt there will be many "redneck hillbillies" who survive here.

Quoted: Damn your right. Wonder if I could buy a backup keypad to put in a lead case. FREE Quoted: I'd be pissed that I wouldn't be able to get in my safe!

Lead case would stop radiation, but not EMP.
You need a faraday box to protect against EMP.
Stop by the SF - we have had several threads on how to construct your own faraday cage.

Quoted: Nope, whats going to happen, will happen. You need to accept the fact that somethings are out fo your control.

But the ability to be prepared for those occasions is not out of your control.

Quoted: Quoted: I love how everyone thinks a nuclear war would end all life, I see the communists brainwashing in the Cold War paid off. The actual nuclear blasts? Powerful, yes, but there aren't enough nuclear weapons in the world to kill every American, much less the whole world. There were some statistics saying that put out in the 1970s by a bunch of hippie freaks at UC Berkley. The problem with those statistics assume that every kiloton of nuclear weapon would kill with the same death/kiloton ratio as the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The problem with that is two fold, first it takes five times the kilotonnage to double the blast radius of a nuclear weapon, not simply twice as much. Second it assumes every nuclear target would have the population density of Hiroshima. I hate to break this to you 'NuclearWar=EndOfLife' freaks, but there are only so many cities in the United States, a great number of Americans live out in the backwoods of nowhere, and no one will waste a nuke to kill 1,000 rednecks. The fallout? Not as big a problem as its made out to be, fallout is only going to be bad if you're directly downwind from a nuclear target, and there are lots of people who aren't downwind of any targets, al they'll have to do is stay inside for a few weeks and run air cleaners you can get at the Home Depot. Even if you are downwind all it takes is a simple fallout shelter to get you through, the Radiation is from radioactive dust in the air, not the air itself, a simple HEPA filter will make the air safe. 'Nuclear Winter'? A myth, the amount of dust that a full scale nuclear war would throw up would barley equal the amount of dust some of the larger volcanoes in human history have put out, last I checked those didn't wipe out mankind either. I'm not saying life wouldn't change, it would, be life changing events have happened before, human-kind survives, and we'll survive a nuclear war if it comes. There simply aren't enough nuclear weapons in the world to kill everyone, nor enough of them to be able to trigger an ice age. Sorry, it won't be the end of mankind, just another dark night in a long history of them. Sorry to put a damper on your 'Mankind Will Kill Itself' circle-jerk. Where do you live? Lets see, I live in Oklahoma, that means I have Tinker in OKC, MacCallister ammo dept, FtSill in Lawton, Altus air base and Enid Air base. I am in the middle of all of those places, I figure Oklahoma wil be toast if a full out nuclaer exchange was to happen. So yes, I doubt there will be many "redneck hillbillies" who survive here.

If you're in the black areas, without a shelter, you're dead.

If you're outside of them, you'll probably make it, assuming you don't starve due to your own lack of planning ahead.


More detailed map of your state:



If you're inside of the orange areas without a shelter, you're dead.

If you're in the red ring, without a basement, you're probably dead.

Otherwise, if you're downwind of one of those, you'll need to fort-up in your house for a while, you'll need some good aircleaners [which you can get at home depot] to keep the airborne radiactive dust down, and you'll need a few weeks worth of food and water [which anyone with a brain should already plan on having]. Basements are better to shelter in, but aren't needed.

If you aren't downwind of any, just stay inside as much as you can and you'll be fine.

Nuclear war cannot wipe out all life on earth, it can't even kill all the Americans in the United States.

Nuclear war would be the end of life as we know it, not the end of life. Things would change, not end, humankind has survived acts of nature far worse than any manmade event could ever be.



South Texas here, far enough south I'm out of the way of most of the targets and their fallout.

I'm not talking about a general nuclear war. The Muslims could never hope to do that.

But they could set off one or two nukes here...possibly configured as EMPs (or could they?) if they were smart. They can't beat us any other way.

What I wanted to know is what would happen with the EMP scenario.

Quoted: -snip- Where do you live? Lets see, I live in Oklahoma, that means I have Tinker in OKC, MacCallister ammo dept, FtSill in LawtonThey would be doing us a favor by nuking Lawton. The most disgusting strip clubs on the face of the earth are in Lawton..., Altus air base and Enid Air base. I am in the middle of all of those places, I figure Oklahoma wil be toast if a full out nuclaer exchange was to happen. So yes, I doubt there will be many "redneck hillbillies" who survive here.

Off topic, removed by myself before I thread-jack.

Quoted: I'm not talking about a general nuclear war. The Muslims could never hope to do that. But they could set off one or two nukes here...possibly configured as EMPs (or could they?) if they were smart. They can't beat us any other way. What I wanted to know is what would happen with the EMP scenario.

I'm not talking about general nuclear war either, but people always bring it up along with the 'all life will end' bullshit.


Frankly, I doubt any terrorist could trigger a large scale EMP, you would have to set off a large nuke at VERY high altitude... I doubt any terrorists could get their hands on U-2 Spyplanes or space launch vehicles in addition to a nuclear device.


But... If they could sneak one onto a Russian commercial launch as a 'communications satellite' or such... That makes it slightly possible, in theory.


Basically, the result would be simple: If it uses a microprocessor, it's not going to work. Your car won't work [unless it's OLD], the power will be out for good, most generators won't work... Radios, computers, cell phones, regular phones... If it has ANY microprocessors in it, it will be dead weight, this includes LED flashlights even.


But hey, electric power isn't everything... An EMP wouldn't affect the Amish at all... We'll probably be begging them for food .

There was a senate report about the dangers of EMP last summer.  THey were VERY afraid.  EMP could screw us up bigtime.

Shooter

No fear here.

I can handle life without conveniences, gov't intrusion and infrastructure far better than most.  I have a wood furnace in addn to my prop furnace and a full tank of propane to cook off of.  Also have a fireplace.  Live on a lake, pump well in my yard, have some food stashed, plenty of game.  I got ammo and guns as well as the wherewithall to deal with most medical problems.

It wouldn't be permanent anyhow.

In short, I'm prepared and it might be a damn fine lessen for the sheeple. Might even wake a few of them up from their ignorance.  Wouldn't count on it though.  They'd probably just all whine for bigger gov't.  So that we could all be as helpless as them, of course.  Only fair.

Quoted: If you're in the black areas, without a shelter, you're dead. If you're outside of them, you'll probably make it, assuming you don't starve due to your own lack of planning ahead.

One thing though is this really doesn't take into account the fallout patterns with prevailing westerly winds and a scathing amount of fallout coming down the Great Prairie from the silo fields in ID, MT and ND The entire praire region would get hammered all the way down to AR, OK, MO, etc.
That of course is assuming a nuclear war, not just an EMP attack.
In any event, the full scale launch by everyone scenario just doesn't make a whole lot of sense and I strongly adhere to the idea that the next World War will go nuclear and that it will be limited primarily to tactical battlefield weapons.

Quoted: All it takes is a korean sub off the coast of cali to launch a nuke warhead over the continental US and detonate 200 miles above the surface.  It would shut out almost every electrical device in the mainland for months.

 It's like I'm at a gun show and bubba is talking

Someone's been watching too much Jack Van Impe  Turn that shit off!

Why do people insist on worrying about stuff they can't control?!?!

the other problem with that map is alot of the targets on it dont exist anymore ie old missle silo's that now no longer have any nukes in them.

I thought EMP didnt effect electronics that were turned off?