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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/18/2005 7:48:57 PM EDT
I know there are a few guitar players on this site, and I have a problem that I hope you can help me with.

I used to play guitar in a heavy metal band YEARS ago, but I havent played in ages.
So...Im watching this DVD of DIO live in concert, and it puts a bug up my ass to start goofing around with one of the old axes, (I had them all packed away in my "spare" bedroom without strings).
I go to the music store to pick up some new GHS Boomers, and I grab my Jackson and start stringing it up.
(here is where the fun starts, and the swearing)
It has a Floyd Rose on it, and I cant get the damned thing in tune while keeping the bridge level.
By the time I get to the D string...the tremolo is about half way into a "dive bomb"

I used to string it all the time, and never had a problem (but that was a long time ago)...am I forgetting something.
I started with the fine tuning screws all the way loose, and I have 4 springs installed.

Please refresh my memory here.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:51:29 PM EDT
I once bought a ukulele to learn how to play, I never did learn how even though I periodically try...


yeah..that makes sense "No matter how little I try to learn how to play it, I can never get it right"
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 8:11:02 PM EDT by Spitfire75]
Ahhhh, the age-old "I can't tune my Floyd Rose equipped guitar!" topic. Well, this is something I've become fairly adept at over the years.

Ok, so here's what you need to do:
Get yourself a new set of strings.
The thing about the Floyd Rose (and Floyd Rose licensed trems) is that it floats and is held in place by springs in the back of the guitar and string tension.
Put on your strings and tune up as you normally would. If your bridge is way forward or way back, you'll need to adjust the screws that hold the trem spring claw in the back cavity of the guitar.
If the bridge is forward (in dive bomb position), you'll need to unscrew the trem claw screws. If the bridge is laying back (like you're pulling up on the bar), you're gonna need to screw the screws in. It's going to take a lot of trial and error, because you're going to have to retune completely every time you make an adjustment.
Ideally, you want the knife edges on the Floyd Rose to be parallel to the body of the guitar. Once you get it there, you should need to adjust it again unless you change string brands or guages.

My Jackson Dinky XL:


A shot of the Schaller Floyd Rose, level with the top of the body:
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:53:42 PM EDT
I'm not a guitar player but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:54:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 7:55:30 PM EDT by FredM]
Are you sure the springs are connected?

First try that.

|Then if that fails take the screws in a few more turns.It could be that the strings you bought are thicker (larger numbers) then what you had on there before. If they are they need more
tension to achieve the same frequency as thinner strings. The the tension on the other side of the bridge has to increase.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:55:27 PM EDT

Are you using a heavier gauge string than you used to?

If not, maybe the springs just took a set over the years. Tighten the springs (there should be a screw/hook at the front of the spring cavity). If you tune up and your brige raises up, back off the tune a bit and then tighten the springs. Then tune up again...repeat as necessary.

There may be an easier way to do it, I'm still a newb with guitars. My electric doesn't have a floyd rose, so there may even be something 'special' about how you adjust those...

Jim
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:55:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Are you using a heavier gauge string than you used to?

If not, maybe the springs just took a set over the years. Tighten the springs (there should be a screw/hook at the front of the spring cavity). If you tune up and your brige raises up, back off the tune a bit and then tighten the springs. Then tune up again...repeat as necessary.

There may be an easier way to do it, I'm still a newb with guitars. My electric doesn't have a floyd rose, so there may even be something 'special' about how you adjust those...

Jim

Beat you~!!!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:56:45 PM EDT
There should be a couple of screws that tension the tremelo springs. Trial and error to get a level bridge.

Kinda weird that it should need much adjustment, though. Are you using a different gauge set of strings than you used to?
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:57:40 PM EDT
when is the last time you had your guitar "set up", intonation, neck tension ... the whole thing. It may need it if its been a real long time.

I fell your pain though, I got sooooo sick of floating trems ...

I now have a Les Paul ... no worries
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:57:41 PM EDT
Find CMJohnson. He is a luthier I think...
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:05:18 PM EDT
Well, I took the strings off of all my guitars when I packed them away (so the necks would'nt be under tension)
But, I do believe these strings are heavier than the ones that were last on it.
I bought the Zakk Wylde signature Boomers...wanted to see what they sound like.

Im going to try tightening the spring claw screws
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:06:03 PM EDT
Thats funnier than shit!!! i had a Gibson V one time with a Kahler Trem,..about threw it through the wall one time when it did that! instead i just sold it! fuck the tremolo bar , just shake it up with a hard twist! set it on fire and put the marshall on 11 after you mike it adding an echoplex with a phase 90 and distorsion AAAhhhhhhh !!!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:07:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nirvana:
Thats funnier than shit!!! i had a Gibson V one time with a Kahler Trem,..about threw it through the wall one time when it did that! instead i just sold it! fuck the tremolo bar , just shake it up with a hard twist! set it on fire and put the marshall on 11 after you mike it adding an echoplex with a phase 90 and distorsion AAAhhhhhhh !!!



Well, thats the ironic part...I dont use the tremolo...I dont even have the bar installed on it.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:08:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:
Well, I took the strings off of all my guitars when I packed them away (so the necks would'nt be under tension)
But, I do believe these strings are heavier than the ones that were last on it.
I bought the Zakk Wylde signature Boomers...wanted to see what they sound like.

Im going to try tightening the spring claw screws


Actually, you should leave them strung. If you take the strings off and store them, the truss rod will warp your necks. The string tension counteracts the tension that the truss rod places on the neck and helps to keep it straight, or slightly bowed, which is what you want. I'm adding a couple of pictures to my original post.

What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:10:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 8:12:31 PM EDT by Spitfire75]

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By nirvana:
Thats funnier than shit!!! i had a Gibson V one time with a Kahler Trem,..about threw it through the wall one time when it did that! instead i just sold it! fuck the tremolo bar , just shake it up with a hard twist! set it on fire and put the marshall on 11 after you mike it adding an echoplex with a phase 90 and distorsion AAAhhhhhhh !!!



Well, thats the ironic part...I dont use the tremolo...I dont even have the bar installed on it.


If you don't even want to use the trem, you could always block it. Get a small piece of wood and fit it into the trem cavity (through the back of your guitar) and place it so that you cannot pull the tremolo bar up. That way it acts more like a fulcrum trem, and will stay in tune if you break a string while playing.

ETA: I'd like to get myself a nice string through the body Jackson. It would be MUCH easier to play around with alternate tunings and stuff on the fly. That's impossible with a Floyd Rose-equipped guitar.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:10:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 8:13:21 PM EDT by Daytona955i]
Put the strings on, then check the springs on the floyd. Like other's have said, string tension is probably your concern.

Go get it set up professionally.

ETA: Always store your guitars with strings on them, it helps counter the neck from bending from temperature and humidity changes.

You will definitely need a truss rod adjustment on top of the bridge being adjusted, it's the best $20-30 you can spend on a guitar besides new strings.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:14:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CSM:
Find CMJohnson. He is a luthier I think...




Correct!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:15:16 PM EDT
You should have left the strings on.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:21:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 8:22:25 PM EDT by nirvana]

Im going to try tightening the spring claw screws
Actually, you should leave them strung. If you take the strings off and store them, the truss rod will warp your necks. The string tension counteracts the tension that the truss rod places on the neck and helps to keep it straight, or slightly bowed, which is what you want. I'm adding a couple of pictures to my original post.

What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.


Definately a + 1 but the damage is done, so a pro is not a bad idea, otherwise you may become disenchanted with the whole experiance,. dont let this happen, i've been playing for over 20 years and when i've put it down to long , well lets just say that when i've picked it back up.....ahhhhhh tension release. i may not be any good , but Damn it sure feels good!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:23:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 8:24:12 PM EDT by Matthew_Q]
Oh.... the Floyd Rose....


The trick to restringing a Floyd is to take one string off, then replace it, tune it up, stretch the string, and get it in tune (just close), then move to the next string.

DO NOT remove all of the strings, and then try to add all the new strings at once. You'll spend hours tuning and stretching and retuning, and fine tuning and stretching and retuning and locking the nut, and unlocking the nut and tuning again and stretching and tuning again... and... you get the fuckin picture.


Oh yeah, and use the same gauge strings, or you'll have to tweak the springs for the tremolo, and possibly adjust the truss rod.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:27:07 PM EDT
which is why i have a vintage gibson Les Paul stock tailpiece ummmm its like ......................................................... sex!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:27:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:
What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.



Dinky reverse...looks alot like the one you posted a pic of, but it is gloss black, with a reverse headstock.


Adjusting the spring tension worked...got it tuned, the bridge is level, and it has no buzz in the neck.

Thanks guys!!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:30:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:


DO NOT remove all of the strings, and then try to add all the new strings at once. You'll spend hours tuning and stretching and retuning, and fine tuning and stretching and retuning and locking the nut, and unlocking the nut and tuning again and stretching and tuning again... and... you get the fuckin picture.


Yeah, I restring my guitars 1 string at a time. It reduces the amount of tuning and retuning.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:31:39 PM EDT
I feel your pain took me an hour once to get my floyd rose level. No wonder i generally always play my les paul(solid bridge)
-sigadvantage-
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:31:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Dinky reverse...looks alot like the one you posted a pic of, but it is gloss black, with a reverse headstock.

Adjusting the spring tension worked...got it tuned, the bridge is level, and it has no buzz in the neck.

Thanks guys!!


That's cool...Yeah, mine is the Dinky XL. I like reverse headstocks. I can never get rid of all my string buzz unless I raise the action to intolerable levels.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:35:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:
What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.



Dinky reverse...looks alot like the one you posted a pic of, but it is gloss black, with a reverse headstock.


Adjusting the spring tension worked...got it tuned, the bridge is level, and it has no buzz in the neck.

Thanks guys!!



AwesomE! i seen Dio at some little club one night about 4 years ago in Hollyweird at the house of blues,...there was this long haired dood playing guitar , he wore black spandex and looked like some homo, but dammit that dood ripped !!! i dont know who it was but that show left me in a state of fried shried n dried shrizzle, i was floored, Fucken DIO !
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:43:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By nirvana:
Thats funnier than shit!!! i had a Gibson V one time with a Kahler Trem,..about threw it through the wall one time when it did that! instead i just sold it! fuck the tremolo bar , just shake it up with a hard twist! set it on fire and put the marshall on 11 after you mike it adding an echoplex with a phase 90 and distorsion AAAhhhhhhh !!!



Well, thats the ironic part...I dont use the tremolo...I dont even have the bar installed on it.



Block it!

Have a piece of hardwood cut to fit in the cavity. Then crank the springs down hard to secure the bridge against the block of wood. If you can't block in front, block in rear--but I think blocking in rear usually requires running a screw through to secure the bridge.

Not only will you eliminate your irritation at the tuning problems, but you'll have better sustain.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:43:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nirvana:

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:
What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.



Dinky reverse...looks alot like the one you posted a pic of, but it is gloss black, with a reverse headstock.


Adjusting the spring tension worked...got it tuned, the bridge is level, and it has no buzz in the neck.

Thanks guys!!



AwesomE! i seen Dio at some little club one night about 4 years ago in Hollyweird at the house of blues,...there was this long haired dood playing guitar , he wore black spandex and looked like some homo, but dammit that dood ripped !!! i dont know who it was but that show left me in a state of fried shried n dried shrizzle, i was floored, Fucken DIO !



The DVD I just bought is called "DIO, Evil or Divine" it is a live show from Friday the 13th in Dec, 2002 at the Roseland Ballroom in NY.
I dont recognize any of the other band members. (I think Carmine Apice died), and the guitar player is some blond guy who is pretty damned good (I still miss Vivian Campbell though).
The bass player is the guy from Rainbow.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:48:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By nirvana:
Thats funnier than shit!!! i had a Gibson V one time with a Kahler Trem,..about threw it through the wall one time when it did that! instead i just sold it! fuck the tremolo bar , just shake it up with a hard twist! set it on fire and put the marshall on 11 after you mike it adding an echoplex with a phase 90 and distorsion AAAhhhhhhh !!!



Well, thats the ironic part...I dont use the tremolo...I dont even have the bar installed on it.



Block it!

Have a piece of hardwood cut to fit in the cavity. Then crank the springs down hard to secure the bridge against the block of wood. If you can't block in front, block in rear--but I think blocking in rear usually requires running a screw through to secure the bridge.

Not only will you eliminate your irritation at the tuning problems, but you'll have better sustain.

Jim



I may just do that...
Does the block need to be secured in? or just held in bt the spring tension?

Would be nice to get rid of the floating, and still keep the fine tuning ability
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 12:47:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By nirvana:

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:
What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.



Dinky reverse...looks alot like the one you posted a pic of, but it is gloss black, with a reverse headstock.


Adjusting the spring tension worked...got it tuned, the bridge is level, and it has no buzz in the neck.

Thanks guys!!



AwesomE! i seen Dio at some little club one night about 4 years ago in Hollyweird at the house of blues,...there was this long haired dood playing guitar , he wore black spandex and looked like some homo, but dammit that dood ripped !!! i dont know who it was but that show left me in a state of fried shried n dried shrizzle, i was floored, Fucken DIO !



The DVD I just bought is called "DIO, Evil or Divine" it is a live show from Friday the 13th in Dec, 2002 at the Roseland Ballroom in NY.
I dont recognize any of the other band members. (I think Carmine Apice died), and the guitar player is some blond guy who is pretty damned good (I still miss Vivian Campbell though).
The bass player is the guy from Rainbow.



Carmine is alive and well.
He has his own website too.
He wants you to pay to join it.
He really must be hurtin'.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:13:55 AM EDT
All this "Dio" talk is hurting my eyes.

Ronnie James Dio


Rhea Pearlman, "Carla" from Cheers.


Kinda creepy, if ya ask me. Never see them in the same place, do ya???
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:17:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
All this "Dio" talk is hurting my eyes.

Ronnie James Dio
www.nolifetilmetal.com/images/dio_83.jpg

Rhea Pearlman, "Carla" from Cheers.
cheers.tvheaven.com/graphics/carla1.jpg

Kinda creepy, if ya ask me. Never see them in the same place, do ya???



Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:23:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 8:24:50 AM EDT by TacticalStrat]
You should store guitars with the strings and tuned. This keeps the proper tension on the neck. Storing them w/o strings will allow the neck to relax, and if kept that way long enough, it will take a set in that position.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:26:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:

Originally Posted By madmedic:
Well, I took the strings off of all my guitars when I packed them away (so the necks would'nt be under tension)
But, I do believe these strings are heavier than the ones that were last on it.
I bought the Zakk Wylde signature Boomers...wanted to see what they sound like.

Im going to try tightening the spring claw screws


Actually, you should leave them strung. If you take the strings off and store them, the truss rod will warp your necks. The string tension counteracts the tension that the truss rod places on the neck and helps to keep it straight, or slightly bowed, which is what you want. I'm adding a couple of pictures to my original post.

What kind of Jackson do you have? I'd love some USA and custom models, but I don't have $1800-5000 to spend on guitars.



Nice Dinky spit....I'll post my picture of my favorite flamed green san dimas when I get home tonight. As a fellow Jackson officianado, you would apprecitate it!!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:52:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:

If the bridge is forward (in dive bomb position), you'll need to unscrew the trem claw screws. If the bridge is laying back (like you're pulling up on the bar), you're gonna need to screw the screws in.



Isn't that backwards? You're loosening the springs when the bridge is already raised (dive bomb)?

Jim
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:55:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:
Well, I took the strings off of all my guitars when I packed them away (so the necks would'nt be under tension)
But, I do believe these strings are heavier than the ones that were last on it.
I bought the Zakk Wylde signature Boomers...wanted to see what they sound like.

Im going to try tightening the spring claw screws



Of course, the necks *were* under tension, from the truss rod. The truss rod opposes the pull of the strings, so when you stored it without the strings on...

Loosen the strings a bit to lower the bridge to level. Now check your action. If it's way low, your neck has warped backwards under stress from the truss rod and needs to be seen by a luthier.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:04:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:

I may just do that...
Does the block need to be secured in? or just held in bt the spring tension?

Would be nice to get rid of the floating, and still keep the fine tuning ability



http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/blocktremolo.htm

I've seen better explanations in the guitar tech books, but this gives you the idea.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:28:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By Spitfire75:

If the bridge is forward (in dive bomb position), you'll need to unscrew the trem claw screws. If the bridge is laying back (like you're pulling up on the bar), you're gonna need to screw the screws in.



Isn't that backwards? You're loosening the springs when the bridge is already raised (dive bomb)?

Jim


Oops, yeah you're right. My mistake. Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaeger_1969:

Nice Dinky spit....I'll post my picture of my favorite flamed green san dimas when I get home tonight. As a fellow Jackson officianado, you would apprecitate it!!


Cool, thanks. My next guitar is going to have a transparent finish over a flamed maple top. I just NEED a guitar with a flamed maple top.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:33:24 PM EDT
Another reason to stick to Les Pauls and Stratocasters.
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