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Posted: 12/16/2009 8:31:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 8:39:34 PM EDT
Was the orginal switch a three way switch?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 8:40:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 8:47:13 PM EDT
Do you have a meter to check the voltage at each of the black wires?  Was the original switch just a snap switch with the black wires connected under the same terminal?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 8:50:41 PM EDT
wire nut the all the blacks togather... red to white(switch leg ––- which should not be white btw)
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 8:53:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 8:54:39 PM EDT by 3GunStuffLLC]
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 8:54:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 9:08:02 PM EDT by Sheldon]
How were the original wires hooked up to the original switch?  Didn't the new switch come with directions of any sort?  Should be a wiring diagram with it.  I just wired one and it had 2 black wires and a red as well.....the red, in mine, is only used if the switch is used as a three way switch.

Is this you saying....."The original switch was a regular light switch, all three wires were wired into the back of it at three seprate locations. "  That sounds like a 3 way switch.  The white wire wouldn't normally be on the switch unless it were a wire in a three way system.  Is there another switch in that same circuit that turns that those lights on and off?  If so you need a model switch that will act as a single pole double throw.......not a single pole single throw, which is what you have.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:09:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:10:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:13:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 9:19:58 PM EDT by JacobsandApples]
I live in a van down by the river

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:20:37 PM EDT
Was the original switch an electronic one as well?  

I don't see whythe white wire would be attached to a regular single pole single throw switch which would only have 2 terminals on it.  One for a hot wire and one for the wire going to the load (switchleg).....well there maybe a ground wire terminal on it as well I suppose....but nothing for the neutral wire.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:23:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:24:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 9:25:42 PM EDT by JacobsandApples]
Originally Posted By Sheldon:
Was the original switch an electronic one as well?  

I don't see whythe white wire would be attached to a regular single pole single throw switch which would only have 2 terminals on it.  One for a hot wire and one for the wire going to the load (switchleg).....well there maybe a ground wire terminal on it as well I suppose....but nothing for the neutral wire.


Because it wasn't a neutral. It was a switch leg that was not properly re-identified (code-violation).

Blacks were hot in/hot out.

Now the OP just needs line and load neutrals to his fancy switch and he is good to go.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:25:06 PM EDT
Is the neutral tied together behind the box or something?

Are there two white wires tied together in the box behind the original switch with a pigtail going to the switch?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:48:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 9:50:05 PM EDT by Sheldon]
Are you sure that white wire is a neutral wire?

If the original switch has three terminal and one of them isn't for a ground, then it sure sounds like a 3-way switch would would normally mean there is another 3-way switch in the circuit that controls those lights.  Kinda hard for me to picture what is going on without knowing for sure whether we are working on a 3-way system or not.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:50:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JacobsandApples:
Originally Posted By Sheldon:
Was the original switch an electronic one as well?  

I don't see whythe white wire would be attached to a regular single pole single throw switch which would only have 2 terminals on it.  One for a hot wire and one for the wire going to the load (switchleg).....well there maybe a ground wire terminal on it as well I suppose....but nothing for the neutral wire.


Because it wasn't a neutral. It was a switch leg that was not properly re-identified (code-violation).

Blacks were hot in/hot out.

Now the OP just needs line and load neutrals to his fancy switch and he is good to go.


+87 to this....
my thoughts as well
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:20:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:23:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3GunStuffLLC:
Now the OP just needs line and load neutrals to his fancy switch and he is good to go.


So what wires do I need to change?


Pull a new cable to get power to the box.

It sounds like you have a switch loop (though how you got two black wires is strange).
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:27:59 AM EDT
best way is to shoot the unidentified wires out to make sure there isnt a switched loop or daisy stuck in there some where





often line side switched circuits will also feed outlets that are right below the switch (or on that wall)
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:29:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:33:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JacobsandApples:
Originally Posted By Sheldon:
Because it wasn't a neutral. It was a switch leg that was not properly re-identified (code-violation).

Blacks were hot in/hot out.

Now the OP just needs line and load neutrals to his fancy switch and he is good to go.


Winna, winna chicken dinna

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:41:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:53:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 9:56:30 AM EDT by itstock]
Originally Posted By 3GunStuffLLC:
Now the OP just needs line and load neutrals to his fancy switch and he is good to go.


Sorry I don't know what this means, based on my picture can anyone tell me what wires to change?


Unfortunately, your timer is probably blown.

The white wire on the timer goes to the white wires wire nutted together (the ones that the red arrow appears to be pointing at), black wire to single white wire, red wire to black wire, and green to ground.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 9:57:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 10:08:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 10:17:47 AM EDT by itstock]
Originally Posted By 3GunStuffLLC:
Unfortunately, your timer is probably blown.


But it seems to work fine, the LED screen works, the programming menus work, you can hear it click on and off for the programmed times.


Then test it when it is wired the proper way (unless it always has been).

Again;

Timer:Romex
Green to ground
White to neutral (white wires bundled together)
Black wire to hot (the black wire coming from the black wires nutted together or the other single black wire)
Red wire to load (should be the black wire)

If it doesn't work, you either don't have it programmed correctly, or it's bad.

Don't you have some kind of tester to see which wires are hot?

I'm starting to think that you should just back away from that switch box and pay someone the $90-120 service call.  Installing a switch is obviously above your skill level.  The worst part is, by playing with it, the professional starts a couple steps back than he would have started had you of left the timer package UNopened.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 10:15:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3GunStuffLLC:
Unfortunately, your timer is probably blown.


But it seems to work fine, the LED screen works, the programming menus work, you can hear it click on and off for the programmed times.


It has a battery back-up.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 12:55:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 1:14:01 PM EDT by Sheldon]
The new timer switch MUST have come with an instruction sheet right?  I'm looking at an instruction sheet for an electronic timer switch I just installed, but it is an Intermatic brand one.  There is no white wire on it nor does it require a "neutral" wire to be hooked up to it.  Are you sure the white wire of the new timer switch is actually supposed to have the white wire/neutral from your house hooked up to it?  Your instruction sheet should show exactly what you need to do.  I looked but can't find an online instruction sheet for your model timer.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 2:19:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3GunStuffLLC:
Pull a new cable to get power to the box.


The box has power, it powers the timer (screen turns on etc.).

Here is a photo, new switch on left, existing switch on right.  Red arrow points to bundle of white wires, the white that is tied to the white on the new switch goes to this bundle, the bundle appears to be terminated by large wire nut.

So can anyone tell me what wires I need to change to get this to work?  Not ignoring previous advice, just not sure I understand it all.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4193368922_ea6d754762.jpg


Where in the house is this? I am just trying to get a better idea of the layout where everything goes. The "hot" wire in that box needs to come from under that yellow wirenut, because that is where the hot is feed from the far switch of that 3-way in the picture. They ran a 3 wire from the other 3 way, and fed the hot on the white wire, and from what I can tell that is under the yellow wirenut. What troubles me is that the neutral must have come from another place, which is sketchtastic, so those neutrals (white wires) may have been tied onto the ground somewhere else. Or there could be 2 hot feeds into that box, which would also be very strange.



You can see in this picture I added in some blue arrows. The furthest to the right notes that a black wire is attached to the "feed" side of the 3-way (non-traveler), and then is spliced under that yellow wire nut. I also marked that the black and red on that 3-way come from the same piece of romex, so they are travelers to the other 3-way switch. You can also see a white wire heading towards that yellow wire nut, which I believe also comes from the same place as the black and red, and is the hot feed into the box. Which direction does the red wire head that is spliced under that same wirenut?
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 4:41:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:55:49 PM EDT
looks like a double gang box, why is there two?
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