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Posted: 8/1/2005 10:10:02 AM EDT
From another forum:


Some of you might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. As is often the case this organization builds a nice website and claims to be a friend of hunters when the reality is they are nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to part unsuspecting hunters and shooters from their hard earned dollars. They claim to be a “rational” voice in the hunting and gun rights policy debate, implying that groups like NRA are irrational.

Everything about AHSA sounds warm and fuzzy, that is unless you take the time to look deeper into their website. Quickly you realize that they want to regulate certain calibers of guns, allow the FBI to keep records on people who buy guns and put an end to gunshows as we know them.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at the website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun
shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.

John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell, while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that next year we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting their AHSA endorsements.

Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this rhetoric, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn’t what they claim to be.


Also listed on AHSA Board is "Jody Powell, Co-Chairman, AHSA Advisory Board"

Jody Powell also served Jimmy Carter's Presidential Press Secretary and was his longtime friend and advisor even before Carter became Governor of GA.


This "gun-rights" group is nothing more than a VPC wolf in hunter's clothing. They are all about trying to undermine the NRA and split the duck-hunters away from those "radical NRA kooks".


SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THIS TROJAN HORSE "GUNRIGHTS" GROUP.



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:15:50 AM EDT
Grrrr.....

VPC in wolfs clothing is right.

Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:16:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 10:16:55 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Check out their position on guns in the home for self-protection:



A Gun in the Home for Self-Protection?
.
.
.
We believe it is inappropriate for anyone to make a one-size-fits-all recommendation that an individual in Maryland, Texas, California or Massachusetts should or should not keep a firearm in the home.

In deciding whether a firearm in the home is a risk or a benefit, four common sense factors must be considered:

1. Is a firearm in the home more likely to be used to protect its owner or is it more likely to be used against a member of the household?
2. How frequently are guns used for self-protection?
3. How effective are handguns when they are used for self-protection?
4. Overall, how safe are guns in the home?

.
.
.
There are certain factors that weigh heavily against keeping a gun in the home for self-protection. One of the most widely quoted statements about guns is that a firearm kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. This comes from the Journal of Medicine in 1986, following a six-year review of gunshot deaths in Seattle, Washington, conducted by Dr. Arthur Kellermann and others. The validity of this study in determining the value and risk of firearms for home protection has been questioned. The Kellermann study focused only on defensive gun uses where the criminal intruder was shot and killed. Instances in which intruders or assailants were wounded or frightened away were not included.
.
.
.


NOTHING about the 2-3 MILLION times a year firearms are used successfully in self-defense!

What the FUCK kind of "gun-rights" organization would actually put BULLSHIT like that as their official position!?



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:18:17 AM EDT
Yep, stay vigilant.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:18:51 AM EDT

Or this:




AHSA Policy Statement: FBI Access to NICS

AHSA believes the FBI should be given reasonable access to National Instant Check System (NICS) purchase records to insure terrorists and other prohibited individuals do not have access to firearms.


Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:19:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:19:55 AM EDT
Tag for home
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:20:06 AM EDT

Or this:



AHSA Policy Statement: Mandatory Background Checks at Gun Shows

AHSA supports requiring all transfers of firearms at gun shows to be subject to all federal, state and local laws and regulations currently applicable to federally licensed firearm dealers including the conducting of the instant background check on purchasers.




Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:21:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
From another forum:


Some of you might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. As is often the case this organization builds a nice website and claims to be a friend of hunters when the reality is they are nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to part unsuspecting hunters and shooters from their hard earned dollars. They claim to be a “rational” voice in the hunting and gun rights policy debate, implying that groups like NRA are irrational.

Everything about AHSA sounds warm and fuzzy, that is unless you take the time to look deeper into their website. Quickly you realize that they want to regulate certain calibers of guns, allow the FBI to keep records on people who buy guns and put an end to gunshows as we know them.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at the website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun
shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.

John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell, while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that next year we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting their AHSA endorsements.

Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this rhetoric, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn’t what they claim to be.








The part in red tipped me off right away. Anytime I hear ANYONE talking about "rational" gun control, or "rational" gun policies, I know instantly that they are gun grabbers.

The only rational gun control is NO gun control.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:22:36 AM EDT

Or this:




AHSA Policy Statement: Modern Fifty Caliber Semiautomatic Rifles

AHSA supports legislative efforts to regulate .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles in the same manner as machine guns are regulated under the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934.



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:24:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
From another forum:


Some of you might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. As is often the case this organization builds a nice website and claims to be a friend of hunters when the reality is they are nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to part unsuspecting hunters and shooters from their hard earned dollars. They claim to be a “rational” voice in the hunting and gun rights policy debate, implying that groups like NRA are irrational.

Everything about AHSA sounds warm and fuzzy, that is unless you take the time to look deeper into their website. Quickly you realize that they want to regulate certain calibers of guns, allow the FBI to keep records on people who buy guns and put an end to gunshows as we know them.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at the website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun
shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.

John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell, while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that next year we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting their AHSA endorsements.

Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this rhetoric, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn’t what they claim to be.








The part in red tipped me off right away. Anytime I hear ANYONE talking about "rational" gun control, or "rational" gun policies, I know instantly that they are gun grabbers.

The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



Yup. It sure is easy for them to tip their hand.

Any "gun group" that quotes the Kellerman statistic is automatically disqualified from any credibility.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:26:00 AM EDT
DAMN!

I just sent them a good chunk of my life savings last week!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:31:46 AM EDT
It shows how fucking desperate these people are becoming.


Protection of Lawful Commerce Act passed.

AWB sunset

CCW in almost all the states (either shall or may issue)

Crime rates dropping

Democrats are getting pounded every time they try to run on the issue

so they have now resorted to OUTRIGHT INFILTRATION of gun owners in order to push their agenda.

And knowing how many Elmer Fudds out there that would GLADLY sell out anyone that owns anything but a double barreled shotgun or wood stocked bolt action "deer rifle" these asswipes actually might make some headway under the banner of "American Hunters"

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:35:28 AM EDT
John Rosenthal and SHV are real pieces of work...

http://192.12.191.21/gv/news/alerts/reader/0%2C2061%2C571186%2C00.html

"Boston, MA - At a press conference today John Rosenthal, Chair and Co-founder of Stop Handgun Violence, along with State Senator Jarrett Barrios, State Representative David Linsky, Boston Police Superintendent Paul Joyce and Director of Federal Legislation for the Brady Campaign, Tony Orza unveiled America's largest billboard, depicting a 150' X 30' AK-47 assault rifle and stating that this gun will be "Coming to a Home Near You" unless action is taken to renew the State and Federal Assault Weapon Bans.

On September 13, 2004, the federal ban on assault weapons such as the one shown on the billboard is set to expire. At this point, even though most Americans support the Assault Weapons Ban, Congress has made no effort to vote to extend it. And, although President Bush promised in his 2000 election campaign that he would extend the ban, he has also made no effort to do so.

Massachusetts has its own ban on assault weapons which will also sunset with the federal ban unless it is extended separately. The Massachusetts Senate voted last week to extend the ban and the legislation is currently being debated in the House.

"We are calling on President Bush to keep his campaign promise to extend the Federal Assault Weapons Ban which will expire in September 13, 2004. Assault weapons are truly weapons of mass destruction whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible without having to stop and reload. Twenty percent of police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with these weapons which are designed to penetrate police body armor from more than 1000 yards. That's why every major police organization in the nation supports extending the ban," stated John Rosenthal.

This is the eighth billboard developed by Stop Handgun Violence since it's inception in 1995. SHV was the lead advocate in the passage of Chapter 180, the most comprehensive gun law in the nation. John Rosenthal stated, "Since 1998, we've experienced an 87% reduction in accidental firearm injuries and deaths among 0-19 year olds. Massachusetts now has the toughest gun laws, and the lowest firearm fatality rate per 100,000 population in the nation".

The billboard design was created by Boston based Modernista! Ltd"





http://www.stophandgunviolence.com
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:40:34 AM EDT
This is designed to divide and destroy, this sight wants to divide the hunting guns guys from the military gun guys, then make the military gun guys look irrational.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:40:36 AM EDT
Woha..

These people are desperate. It's a good sign.

Now we just need them to receive a "random" IRS audit....
Scumbags.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:43:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
DAMN!

I just sent them a good chunk of my life savings last week!



PLEASE!!! Tell me you are joking.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:50:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rynich:
This is designed to divide and destroy, this sight wants to divide the hunting guns guys from the military gun guys, then make the military gun guys look irrational.

Exactly.

This is the all-too-familiar "Divide & Conquer" approach.

VPC is now infiltrating the "gunowners" groups and WILL be instantly highlighted in every fucking media report whenever they need a "pro-gun" opinion in their stories.

Their whole purpose is to undermine the NRA and make the NRA look like radical extremist gun-nuts and that THEY are the sane and rational voice of gun-owners to the sheeple.


We MUST fight groups like this because they are a CANCER to us.

They WILL be used by their accomplices in the media to replace the NRA as the "reasonable voice of American gunowners"




Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:54:46 AM EDT
Here's what they say about .50 BMG:


Intended for use in combat situations, these weapons can penetrate structures and destroy or disable light armored vehicles, radar dishes, helicopters, stationary airplanes, and other “high-value” military targets. The Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, Al Qaeda, the Irish Republican Army, street and motorcycle gangs in California, Missouri and Indiana, and various militia groups and criminals across the United States are all documented as having possessed or used modern .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:01:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rynich:
This is designed to divide and destroy, this sight wants to divide the hunting guns guys from the military gun guys, then make the military gun guys look irrational.



I'm both, hunting, and military gun guy, you can't devide me.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:02:33 AM EDT
Looks like it could be a Dem run website/organization attempting to appear more "mainstream"
to gun owners.



WHOIS for Huntersandshooters.com

Registrant:
dcs

600 Pennsylvania Ave SE
suite 200
washington, District of Columbia 20003
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: HUNTERSANDSHOOTERS.COM
Created on: 25-Apr-05
Expires on: 25-Apr-06
Last Updated on: 22-Jul-05

Administrative Contact:
fryday, joshua jfryday@dcscongressional.com
dcs
1225 I street
suite 600
washington dc, District of Columbia 22005
United States
(202) 365-7433
Technical Contact:
fryday, joshua jfryday@dcscongressional.com
dcs
1225 I street
suite 600
washington dc, District of Columbia 22005
United States
(202) 365-7433

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.VERTEX.NET
NS2.VERTEX.NET



http://dcscongressional.com
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:07:50 AM EDT
They are not our 800 pound gorilla, and won't be. The NRA will destroy them. They just keep pushing us to where we won't have our duty to retreat anymore.......
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:12:00 AM EDT
www.dcscongressional.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=30

Check out the client list of DCS Congressional... Democrats, Labor, NEA!!

Smells like crap, I'll put it on my site!!

Eric
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:21:18 AM EDT
More on DCS Congressional:
About Us PDF Print E-mail
We began DCS in 2002 to offer a solution to Members of Congress, Democratic campaigns, advocacy organizations and state parties.
and:

Online Fundraising For Democrats PDF Print E-mail
Written by Administrator
Tuesday, 28 June 2005
DCS can provide you with proven fundraising strategies.
Is your website doing all that it can? Are you taking full advantage of the tools available to your campaign?

Benefit from our extensive expertise in offline and online fundraising.

You can rely on us to reach more people, raise more money, and run the operation more efficiently.

This past election cycle has already shown the vast promise of online fundraising. Internet fundraising is a proven method of increasing a campaign’s number of small, hard money donations.

* The number of people donating online doubled since 2000 – to 4 million donors.
* Average online donations vary between $100 and $112 compared to a typical contribution of $35 from a direct mail appeal.
* The Kerry Campaign raised $82 million dollars online, much of it in donations under $200.

However, in order to have success in this area, the campaign needs to both direct traffic to its site and build a solid list of email addresses that it can direct its email fundraising appeals towards.

Our online fundraising program was developed to meet all of your needs. We can help you define the solutions that meet your immediate and long term needs.

You can be confident that you are getting the best service and highest-quality products available. Trust us to develop integrated strategies, streamline costly administration, help you segment databases and more. Maximize your email newsletters and viral campaigns, improve support and stewardship, and spread your fundraising message.
Last Updated ( Friday, 01 July 2005 )

I wonder if we can sign up for free?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:23:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
Looks like it could be a Dem run website/organization attempting to appear more "mainstream"
to gun owners.



WHOIS for Huntersandshooters.com

Registrant:
dcs

600 Pennsylvania Ave SE
suite 200
washington, District of Columbia 20003
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: HUNTERSANDSHOOTERS.COM
Created on: 25-Apr-05
Expires on: 25-Apr-06
Last Updated on: 22-Jul-05

Administrative Contact:
fryday, joshua jfryday@dcscongressional.com
dcs

http://dcscongressional.com




About Us -

We began DCS in 2002 to offer a solution to Members of Congress, Democratic campaigns, advocacy organizations and state parties. Office holders, candidates, and organizations use affordable services to communicate with the average constituent who often gets lost in the shuffle. We know how important each person is to you, and we know how to contact them so your message can make a difference.

With years of experience in politics, we have been on the front lines of rapidly changing political communication.



What We Do -

DCS utilizes cutting edge technology to create a winning Internet strategy for elected officials, campaigns and organizations. Our experienced political and Internet team will work directly with campaigns, political organizations, and their strategic partners to develop a plan that combines creative, research-driven messages with aggressive online advocacy. We will work with your fundraising, press and issue teams in their earliest stages to develop effective Internet strategies, full media plans, and fundraising strategies that can be turned into potent and powerful solutions.




Basically they're a team of slick design techs who package websites and materials for Democrat candidates like Kennedy, Pelosi, Meehan, etc and left-leaning organizations like "AsbestosTruth.org".



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:24:12 AM EDT

AHSA is committed to supporting the right to keep and bear arms, protecting our homes, and preserving our liberties.

Hunting and sport shooting are American values AHSA will vigorously defend.

AHSA is dedicated to protecting and maintaining our nation’s valuable wilderness resources for the preservation and use of all Americans.

AHSA is committed to safety in all aspects of the shooting sports including the recognition that adults are responsible for keeping guns out of the hands of children.

AHSA is committed to supporting our nation’s law enforcement officers in their fight against easy access to guns by criminals, terrorists and others.

AHSA is a non-partisan organization that advocates and advances sensible public policies. We will never support unfettered access to all types of weapons.




Heheheh. Got to get up pretty early in the mornin' to fool gun nuts, people.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:29:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:31:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:

Originally Posted By markm:
DAMN!

I just sent them a good chunk of my life savings last week!



PLEASE!!! Tell me you are joking.




Heck yes!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:42:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



Those fuckers should be locked up in the first place. One for being a violent criminal and two for being a violent mentally unstable person.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:51:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:

192.12.191.21/cobrand/SHV_billboard.jpg




Damn liars! I got an AR6450 coming to my home not an AK, I already have 3 AK's
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:55:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 11:57:39 AM EDT by senorFrog]
Entirely possible to have the pro-gun movement hijacked. Look what the homo's did to most of the Protestant faiths.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:57:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.


It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



Except if you believe in and adhere to the Constitution.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:08:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

AHSA is committed to supporting the right to keep and bear arms, protecting our homes, and preserving our liberties.

Hunting and sport shooting are American values AHSA will vigorously defend.

AHSA is dedicated to protecting and maintaining our nation’s valuable wilderness resources for the preservation and use of all Americans.

AHSA is committed to safety in all aspects of the shooting sports including the recognition that adults are responsible for keeping guns out of the hands of children.

AHSA is committed to supporting our nation’s law enforcement officers in their fight against easy access to guns by criminals, terrorists and others.

That would be us.

AHSA is a non-partisan organization that advocates and advances sensible public policies. We will never support unfettered access to all types of weapons.




Heheheh. Got to get up pretty early in the mornin' to fool gun nuts, people.



Us vs. them, the typical dem. strategy.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:19:52 PM EDT
T_Mc, You definitely head the nail on the head with this one!

I checked out their website and they are for everydamn peice of legislation that the
anti-gunners are looking for...

You can even tell in their rhetoric that they are for "sporting" firearms only.


IN SHEEPS CLOTHING... I wonder how many people have wasted their money
joining this hoax...


LB


SPREAD THE WORD, EVERYONE !
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:35:21 PM EDT
This definately needs a tack!!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:42:39 PM EDT
Don't be mad, guys! Be happy because the lib's position on guns is so weak and so strongly opposed by the vast majority of the population, that they have to stoop to stunts like this to make any headway. This is a sign that we are winning the battle.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:43:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.





I don't give a flying rat-fuck if someone is carrying a gun... it's what they DO with it that counts.

"Mentally ill"? If so bad that it impacts their ability to operate in society, they should be under care.

"History of violent crime"? Why the fuck are they on the streets instead of locked up or executed.

Sorry, your argument doesn't wash. You're trying to deny the rights of law-abiding citizens based on what someone else MIGHT do. This is the same bullshit "thinking" that got us in this mess in the first place.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:46:57 PM EDT
Try and get an application with a postage paid return envelope.

Wrap up a brick in heavy paper.

Glue envelope to package.

Drop in USPS mailbox.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 12:57:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 12:58:14 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.

You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



I don't give a flying rat-fuck if someone is carrying a gun... it's what they DO with it that counts.

"Mentally ill"? If so bad that it impacts their ability to operate in society, they should be under care.

"History of violent crime"? Why the fuck are they on the streets instead of locked up or executed.

Sorry, your argument doesn't wash. You're trying to deny the rights of law-abiding citizens based on what someone else MIGHT do. This is the same bullshit "thinking" that got us in this mess in the first place.

"According to a 2003 Field & Stream National Hunting Survey, sportsmen overwhelmingly support reasonable gun safety proposals. Moreover, an overwhelming majority of hunters support proposals like background checks to purchase guns, keeping military style assault weapons off our streets and the elimination of cop killer bullets.

In recent years, extreme political positions purporting to support gun rights have jeopardized our sport and have hurt the image of responsible gun owners. Unless the sporting community can become unified behind an organization that fights for safe and responsible hunting and shooting practices and sensible gun ownership, future generations may be unable to participate in and enjoy the shooting sports.

Americans who love the outdoors and the shooting sports deserve an organization that represents their views, avoids angry political rhetoric and delivers well thought out, rational programs and policy proposals."



Infiltrate, sow disagreement, foment antagonism, instigate fingerpointing and provoke blame among gunowners then sit back and watch them devour themselves.

Divide and conquer.

You guys are being played like a Stradavarius.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:11:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.





I don't give a flying rat-fuck if someone is carrying a gun... it's what they DO with it that counts.

"Mentally ill"? If so bad that it impacts their ability to operate in society, they should be under care.



Then please right your congressman and ask them to spend more money on treating the mentally ill.


"History of violent crime"? Why the fuck are they on the streets instead of locked up or executed.


18 year old kid robs a liquor store with a gun. He serves 20 years. Do you think he should be able to buy another gun when he gets out? I think he had his chance, and now he's lost his right to a gun.


Sorry, your argument doesn't wash. You're trying to deny the rights of law-abiding citizens based on what someone else MIGHT do. This is the same bullshit "thinking" that got us in this mess in the first place.


Ok, lets take the argument a step further. The second amendment says nothing about guns - it refers to the right to keep and bear arms. A surface to air missile certainly counts as an arm. Why restrict the right of a law abiding citizen from walking into a Walmart and buying a SAM just based on what someone else MIGHT do?

I own a lot of firearms. I'm a strong supported of the right of law abiding citizens to own arms. I just don't think that right is unlimited and unqualified.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:13:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



If people are still a danger to society they should be incarcerated or executed.

By your reasoning we should also restrict swords, spears, knives, bludgeons, teeth, bare hands, axes, large rocks, chainsaws, marital arts, metal bars, commercial cabling, gasoline, bad thoughts, cars, or any object that could be put to harmful use. However, the choice of weapon is not the common element; it is the person employing the weapon.


Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:16:07 PM EDT
Let's all hope that nobody goes and starts signing up PETA members for this outfit & vice-versa...

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:16:36 PM EDT
Maybe we should create a couple phony anti-gun groups and try to divide their side up even more?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:21:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeWang:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:
You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



If people are still a danger to society they should be incarcerated or executed.

By your reasoning we should also restrict swords, spears, knives, bludgeons, teeth, bare hands, axes, large rocks, chainsaws, marital arts, metal bars, commercial cabling, gasoline, bad thoughts, cars, or any object that could be put to harmful use. However, the choice of weapon is not the common element; it is the person employing the weapon.



So just to clarify, do you really think that in major cities people should be allowed to carry firearms into night clubs and get drunk?

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:22:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rynich:
This is designed to divide and destroy, this sight wants to divide the hunting guns guys from the military gun guys, then make the military gun guys look irrational.



Well, at most ranges you will find that already to be the case. The "hunting only" guys (not hunters who also own EBRs) will flat tell you that they don't care if EBRs are banned as long as they leave the bolt action hunting rifles alone. They won't listen when you tell them that their "sniper rifles" are next.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:24:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrPink123:

Originally Posted By rynich:
This is designed to divide and destroy, this sight wants to divide the hunting guns guys from the military gun guys, then make the military gun guys look irrational.



I'm both, hunting, and military gun guy, you can't devide me.



With a samurai, we could. Maybe we can teach you to spell, at least.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:25:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeWang:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



If people are still a danger to society they should be incarcerated or executed.

By your reasoning we should also restrict swords, spears, knives, bludgeons, teeth, bare hands, axes, large rocks, chainsaws, marital arts, metal bars, commercial cabling, gasoline, bad thoughts, cars, or any object that could be put to harmful use. However, the choice of weapon is not the common element; it is the person employing the weapon.





That pretty much sums it up.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:28:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
The only rational gun control is NO gun control.



You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



No, I expect them to be incarcerated. Laws should punish crime not prevent it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:32:03 PM EDT
The lows that liberals will stoop in order to force their way into power, never ceases to amaze me. Liars.

Unreal.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:32:19 PM EDT

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 1:32:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

Originally Posted By JoeWang:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:
You think mentally ill people with a history of violent crime should have a right to carry guns with them in bars while they are drunk?

It's definitely possible to have rational laws that restrict ownership and use of guns.



If people are still a danger to society they should be incarcerated or executed.

By your reasoning we should also restrict swords, spears, knives, bludgeons, teeth, bare hands, axes, large rocks, chainsaws, marital arts, metal bars, commercial cabling, gasoline, bad thoughts, cars, or any object that could be put to harmful use. However, the choice of weapon is not the common element; it is the person employing the weapon.



So just to clarify, do you really think that in major cities people should be allowed to carry firearms into night clubs and get drunk?




Yep, you are using a false premise to infer that the law alone currently prevents someone from doing it. What someone actually DOES should be in question, not what he COULD do.
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