We just got a new Chief who seems very PC and liberal.

As policy stands now, anyone who qualifies with the approved weapons/ammo can carry the same.  The 223 round is one of them.  I have no back up weapon and I just bought an AR15 for myself to carry on duty and just to have.  

It seems as though I have to present my case to the Chief to allow me to carry this in my patrol car even after I qualify with it.  Based on personal on the job experiences made me wish I had something other than my sidearm.

Are there any statistics available that will help buttress my argument to allow me to carry, besides someone I work with getting killed by someone with a more powerful weapon?

Thanks and stay safe.

I wish you luck.  If he/she doesn't understand yet, it will probably take more than a "mere" patrol officer to change his mind.

I'm going to rifle training all next week and will be outfitted with a sweet AR-15, all my own to have and hold, on Friday.  (I'll actually have it Monday but won't get to keep it until Friday.)

Best advice I can offer is to check out the FBI's UCR (I think that's what it's called) that lists LEO's killed in the line of duty and how they were killed.  Use what you can find in that document along with the LA bank robbery incident to explain that you can not reasonably defend yourself with a pistol against someone armed with a rifle.  It's like going into a hand grenade fight armed with rocks.

It may help your cause to try and get a policy written detailing what circumstances must be present before a rifle will be deployed.  Many administrators are concerned about public perception if their folks are walking around with AR15 rifles.  Don't make it too restrictive but a well written policy will prevent the "tackelberry" types from responding to domestics with an AR15 slung because they think it looks cool.

If there is a school in your beat, it shouldn't take much web searching to find the data you need.  You should only need one statistic for a reasonable person..............

google--->Colombine

WOW! Is your chief insane?! Really. I mean I'm not an officer, but if YOU see a usefulness for this tool, you should be allowed to carry it.

When the antis talk about cops being "out-gunned", I always thought "That's not possible, because officers always have access to all that cool LEO stuff". I guess I was wrong.

ETA: An officer with an AR would have caused NO change of result at Columbine.

That said, police officers are expected (by the general public) to go TOWARDS harm (while we flee in the other direction). A pistol is a defensive weapon, that is nice because you can have it with you at all times, but it's hardly an effective offensive weapon.

But when you KNOW you're going toward trouble, bring a long gun!

It would seem to me, the two best persuasive arguments you could use to gain authorization to carry your AR in your squad are thus:

First, the Patrol Rifle has become an INDUSTRY STANDARD in American law enforcement.  It is bordering on irresponsibility not to have a rifle caliber weapon available to patrol officers (not that I would tell your chief that!   )

But the second, better argument, is that it won't cost him anything!  You already have procured a duty quality weapon with your own funds.  You aren't asking him to spend any money, and that's what most administrators focus on.

Good luck, and stay safe!

Quoted: WOW! Is your chief insane?! Really. I mean I'm not an officer, but if YOU see a usefulness for this tool, you should be allowed to carry it. When the antis talk about cops being "out-gunned", I always thought "That's not possible, because officers always have access to all that cool LEO stuff". I guess I was wrong. ETA: An officer with an AR would have caused NO change of result at Columbine. That said, police officers are expected (by the general public) to go TOWARDS harm (while we flee in the other direction). A pistol is a defensive weapon, that is nice because you can have it with you at all times, but it's hardly an effective offensive weapon. But when you KNOW you're going toward trouble, bring a long gun!

Not to start any shit, but you cant say that for sure, just like I cant say that it would have for sure but.....

-At 11:24 am an officer had initial contact with one of the shooters.
The officer fired at him with a pistol but was unsuccessful because of the long distance shot.

-At 12:06pm S.W.A.T. went into the building to find the suspects already deceased from self inflicted gun shot wounds.

Now had that first officer had a rifle, things MAY have ended differently. But we will never know. What we do know was that the 2 kids had 42 minutes of time inside together when there could have only been one. And they worked as a team so who knows.

Ok I am done now, sorry for the HiJack.

You mentioned some personal experiences that made you wish you had a rifle.  I would articulate those heavily when you present your case because they illustate the need in your specific jurisdiction.  

Besides that, the obvious arguments regarding North Hollywood and Columbine come to mind.  Regarding Columbine, I agree that a patrol rifle program could have made a significant difference.  One of the shooters may have been taken out and the likelyhood of Officers going after the shooters is higher if they have access to equipment to make it possible to succeed.

We have learned the hard way that with active shooters we have to be aggressive and take the fight to them.  If a department is asking me to actively seek out and engage an active shooter, they better not tell me I have to use my .40 Sig.  Don't get me wrong, I love my Sig, but it is not an offensive weapon.

Just the rifle doesn't do it.  There has to be commitment by your department to train you with it and ensure that your weapon is functional.

Some Departments have started Active Shooter Training.  From the training that I have been to, it gives you some insight of what it may be like going into a situation where there is someone blasting away. This was an issue with Columbine.  The officers created a perimeter and waited.

We had to convince our admin types that the 5.56/.223 was suitable.
The FBI has studies that document pistol caliber rounds penetrating interior walls where the .223 frags and actually reduces over penetration risks.
I don't have that stuff on this computer but I have it at work, you can look it up.
There is a lot of data available.
All our officers are qualified and trained with AR15 and we carry them as patrol rifles.
We are a small city that borders a major city. The major city cops have one rifle and one shotgun per shift, per district.
We have a rifle and shotgun in each of our cars.
They get paid more but we are better equipped.
There are fewer of us, no helo, no full time SWAT, on a good day we can get 5 officers to a location.
Makes sense that we be equipped to deal with extreme situations.
Good luck.

Sorry, I misread you post. Real events speak volumes. This happened just South of where I work. Creep calls police and waits in ambush across the road, kills three officers as they arrive. Turd was armed with a rifle.


http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/Public_information/publications/chaparral/chap1199.pdf

This happened 1.5 miles North of me. Bad guy on his way to shoot cops when he got stopped. Opened up on officer with an AK type rifle.

http://www.thegunzone.com/mos/schertz.html

And of course there was this in North Hollywood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT001bovaHk

Many more cases of bad guys with rifles and or armor. PC is so 20th century, we have to deal with the brave new world. Everyone better be prepared for it.

Stay safe.

http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=15433&printview=1


Texas DPS Trooper killed by an old man with a Mini 14

IF ALL ELSE FAILS

When you are done and the new chief refuses to allow them.

Drag out the old LIABILITY letter that you want placed in your file and
in the files of every other officer who works there.
Be sure to follow the PROPER chain of command and requested signitures
from supervisors on the way up.

Dear Chief

I am sorry to recieve YOUR order to remove all AR15 Patrol rifles from
our cars.
I am sure that you realize that by doing this, we are UNABLE to properly
respond to a critical incident like the VT Univ shooting or a shooting like
the one at Columbine High School.
Since 911, AR15 have become the industry standard for all Law Enforcement in the
United States of America.
I am requesting that you place a copy of this letter in all employee files
since we as patrol officers do not have the personal funds to defend a lawsuit
which will follow when such an incidedent occurs.

sincerely


Be nice, be polite and remember. Liberal Admins hate the words lawsuit and
liability.

Quoted: IF ALL ELSE FAILS When you are done and the new chief refuses to allow them. Drag out the old LIABILITY letter that you want placed in your file and in the files of every other officer who works there. Be sure to follow the PROPER chain of command and requested signitures from supervisors on the way up. Dear Chief I am sorry to recieve YOUR order to remove all AR15 Patrol rifles from our cars. I am sure that you realize that by doing this, we are UNABLE to properly respond to a critical incident like the VT Univ shooting or a shooting like the one at Columbine High School. Since 911, AR15 have become the industry standard for all Law Enforcement in the United States of America. I am requesting that you place a copy of this letter in all employee files since we as patrol officers do not have the personal funds to defend a lawsuit which will follow when such an incidedent occurs. sincerely Be nice, be polite and remember. Liberal Admins hate the words lawsuit and liability.

This might be the worst advice I've ever seen in this forum.  Follow it and you will torpedo your career.  If you want to cover your ass on the matter, there are more effective ways of doing it other than poking the hornet's nest with a stick.