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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/28/2001 8:15:35 AM EST
Hi Everyone; I have an AR10A4B It is a fine shooting rifle that exceeds the advertised accuracy by being able to usually group {just} under 1 MOA @ 100 yds from a sandbag rest. I have it outfitted with the Improved ArmaLite Scope Mount and a Springfield Armory 1st Gen Gov’t scope. However, when recently visiting a friend’s gunshop in Cali, he showed me their H&K SR9TC. http://www.hkpro.com/sr9.htm I was completely taken by the rifle. I will admit that a lot of it has to do with the looks. But I’ve done some research, and the SR9TC seems like it [i]might be the better machine tool.[/i] Specifically because of the polygonal rifled barrel and the delayed roller locking system. But I could modify my AR10 in a similar fashion. Armalite offers accessories - And shops like JPAuto Rifle Specialties have services that make a better shooting weapon. Here is my dilemma: As I stated, my Armalite is a fine rifle. But the AR10 models have had their share of little problems. There have been some technical bulletins - and my bolt had to be sent back recently for a burr on the carrier key that developed a gas leak. [a] Parts are only available through Armalite. If they go out of business, the repair parts market will dry up. The SR9TC is considered a "Rolls Royce" and commands a staggering price of over $3000 or so dollars. But I have not heard any bad reports about reliability or accuracy. Just comments about: [a]the weight (b)no bolt hold-open after the last round, and [c]that it’s too hard on brass. {not reloadable} but [1] Parts seem available from a number of sources. The question: I want just one military styled 7.62mm rifle. I want repeatable MOA out to 300 yards. I want reliability. Problem is, I have no way to compare the AR10 with the H&K SR9 series. [i][b]Is the SR9TC costing almost twice as much as the AR10, that much better of a rifle?[/i][/b] I’m hoping to get some comments from people that have handled both to help me make a decision. Thanks
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 8:24:28 AM EST
I can't answer the specific question, but if the MOA threshold is your goal, why not include the M1A as a choice. A match rifle will still cost less than the SR9 and way way way less than a PSG1. Do you have a prior negative experience with one?
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:05:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2001 9:06:04 AM EST by ron97ws6]
Originally Posted By DriftPunch: I can't answer the specific question, but if the MOA threshold is your goal, why not include the M1A as a choice. A match rifle will still cost less than the SR9 and way way way less than a PSG1. Do you have a prior negative experience with one?
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Actually, I had an M1A, with a Kreiger 1-10, custom built-up by Clint Fowler in Virginia. Was a nice rifle. But unfortunately the M14 does not stay tuned w/o the services of a gunsmith. The reason the USMC pioneered the double-lugged receiver was to improve stability, and make the bedding last longer. Even so, the M14's need rebedding every so often, and the gas system is finicky. When my accuracy began wandering with my M14, I came to the conclusion that I needed to step up to a gas gun recoil system required less tuning, and stayed put. Thus my move to the AR10. Now the question is whether the H&K system is better than the AR system. it just might be that I'm better served to free-float my AR10 and install a target grade barrel. But I have to find out. I have to confess that I'm a little put off by the Armalite stainless "T" barrel and it's laborious break-in requirements. See this tech note: http://www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote28.htm I've never heard of this time-consuming break-in being needed on a Kreiger barrel. I was never advised that I had to do it when I had one installed in my olde M14.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:47:14 AM EST
I think the AR10 is a superior rifle to the H&K SR9TC. Here's why: 1)Cost - You can get an AR10 (like the one you have) for under $1300 or an Eagle Arms for <$1000. With ARs, the accuracy is in the barrel. A Krieger? Call it $500. Add a Jewel trigger for $180. We won't include a scope, because that is something needed for whatever you get. So, we are up to $1700 - $2000 for a rifle that will shoot into .25 MOA. How much does that SR9 cost? 2)Accuracy - An AR10 costing less than 2/3 of the SR9 will meet or beat the SR9's accuracy. 3)Action - The AR10 has a nice gas system that can be customized with adjustable gas systems or by moving the gas port if you buy a custom barrel. This action is easy on brass. The action smoothes out and reduces felt recoil. The H&K roller lock action gives an abrupt, jarring recoil in comparison. 4)Reloading - As you pointed out, the SR9 beats brass, the AR10 doesn't. For maximum accuracy you will want to reload. Unless you are a cop testifying in court, you shouldn't use factory ammo due to expense and customizability. 5)Reliability - The AR was tested by NATO and found to be at least equal in reliability to all other systems. I'm not dragging my $2000 rifle through the mud, are you? The rifle is my best friend, Commies and Fuzzy-wuzzies treat their rifles like that, I don't. I wouldn't even treat an AK like that. And I certainly wouldn't treat a $3000 dollar SR9 with a quality European scope like that. 6)Parts - Many AR10 parts are interchangeable with the AR15. Many more are interchangeable with the Knight SR-25. Some are probably interchangeable the the Hesse HAR-10. Isn't someone else supposed to come out with a clone too? I don't worry about parts. Last time I checked match grade H&K parts are expensive. I don't personally know where to get any. (Doesn't mean you can't) 7)Barrel Break-in - This is something that is optional for any rifle, but is also desirable for any accurate rifle. As you mentioned, the H&K also has ergonomic issues, like the lack of bolt-hold open. I admit I've never owned an SR9, and have only shot the H&K-91. Didn't like it. Plus they are expensive. So I probably won't ever get one either. If I really had a hankering for one I'd get a Cetma or a kit 91. These are much better values and so is the AR10. If you really want to add the SR9 to your collection, do it. I think it is a fine gun, but there are better out there for far less money. I sure wouldn't sell an AR10 to have one!
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 3:02:48 PM EST
Buy both. On another note, the SR9 might be worth 3000$ now, but there not easy to find, where you got the AR10 that anyone can buy, meaning resale is harder for the AR10 then the SR9, I say buy it, try it, dont like it just sell it and get some profit.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 3:05:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By ron97ws6: [a] Parts are only available through Armalite. If they go out of business, the repair parts market will dry up.
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If H&K stops selling to civillians parts will dry up fast too. Don't kid yourself man there are no easy answers. Personally, I prefer American weapons over a bunch of H&Gay crap, but thats just MHO. -SS
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 3:54:09 PM EST
[i]Thanks to everyone for some good answers, and kudos to BECoole for a really good reply. Because of comments like these [b]I've decided to not only keep the AR, but to upgrade it significantly.[/i][/b] In a short while, I will post a query on which AR10 custom shops are the most recommended.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 6:52:44 PM EST
You disappoint me. You should have both![:D]
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