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Posted: 10/29/2006 3:38:45 PM EST
I'm *assuming* you live in a nice area.





www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=413301&in_page_id=1770

Now a tax just for living in a nice area

By KIRSTY WALKERLast updated at 22:53pm on 29th October 2006


Families who live in desirable areas face massive increases in their council tax bills under plans being drawn up by Labour, it was revealed.

Homeowners in affluent neighbourhoods with good schools, low crime rates and clean streets could be charged thousands of pounds extra than those in more run down places.

Ministers have purchased sophisticated 'Big Brother' computer systems which calculate the desirability of an area based on the quality of local services and the types of people who live there.

The software, which will be used in the forthcoming revaluation of all 21 million homes in England, contains astonishingly detailed data on the number of households, even those who have pets, wear contact lenses or are vegetarian.

It allows inspectors to put a precise value on each home, based not only by its size and features, but its location.

The move is a further blow to homeowners who are facing the prospect of being fined for refusing to let council tax inspectors come into their homes to photograph any improvements.

Campaigners have warned that bills could rise by as much as four times in areas which are deemed 'desirable' - sending some bills spiralling from £1,000 to £4,000.

The Acorn computer system uses marketing information obtained from companies, such as credit card and stores, to create a detailed analysis of individuals and their neighbourhoods based on 287 'lifestyle variables'.

This includes information on the age, sex, ethnic profile and profession of residents in different 'localities'.

Highly personalised information about what families eat, drink, and earn is also taken into account.

Communities minister Phil Woolas has revealed the country will be divided into 10,000 'localities' for the revaluation exercise.

He admitted: "The market for dwellings may well be influenced by levels of crime and deprivation, amongst many other factors".

The new system is based on a scheme being tested in Northern Ireland, where homeowners have seen their local tax bills increase by as much as 400 per cent.

Residents there will be charged 0.78 per cent of their home's value each year - calculated in part using the location information - pushing the average bill from £1,056 to £1,492. Individual local authorities could vary the rate.

The tax will hit Northern Ireland next April, but a review of town hall finances for England, currently under way, is thought to be looking at the same system.

The Tories warned that if it was introduced in England, average bills would soar by £436 a year, with middle-class households in the South and South East worst hit.

Several councils would see average annual bills rise by more than £1,000 - including Westminster, Wandsworth, Camden, Hammersmith and Fulham, Islington, Richmond upon Thames, South Buckinghamshire, Windsor & Maidenhead, Mole Valley, St Albans, Winchester, Brentwood and Epping Forest.

In many Labour heartlands, by contrast, average bills would fall, because house price rises have been less dramatic since the last national revaluation.

Under the system, householders could be fined £1,000 for refusing to let inspectors photograph the inside and outside of their homes.

Improvements which could increase council tax bills range from a large extension, through to the number of bedrooms and parking spaces, to a scenic view.

The Tories claim ministers are quietly introducing the new scheme in Northern Ireland with the intention of rolling it out nationwide, just as Margaret Thatcher piloted the community charge in Scotland before introducing it across England and Wales.

Shadow communities secretary Caroline Spelman warned: "There is growing alarm about the Labour Government's use of Big Brother computers to hike taxes.

"First, they want to log and record every feature of your home, from double glazing to the number of bedrooms. Next, they want clip-board wielding bureaucrats to have the right to inspect your home.

"Now, Labour intends to tax you not just for every home improvement, but also the neighbourhood you live in.

"This is the hallmark of an oppressive and greedy government finding every more stealthy ways to tax working families and pensioners and trampling over privacy when it suits them."

Liberal Democrat spokesman Andrew Stunell MP added: "Your local tax should be based on your ability to pay.

"What is now being suggested will hit retired people particularly hard. They often have spent many years in their own home and would now simply become the victims of house price rises over which they have no control at all."

A review of local government including town hall finances by Sir Michael Lyons is expected within months.

But the Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain yesterday hit back at the claims describing them as "juvenile".

He said: "This is Westminster politics of the most juvenile kind. In Northern Ireland, we are introducing a new arrangement to replace one which is three decades old and clearly unfair to those on lower incomes.

"The decision to base rates on the value of homes emerged after a period of consultation and had its genesis in the last Assembly.

"It is tailor-made for Northern Ireland's different local government finance system and there is no read across for the rest of the UK."

Blair Gibbs, spokesman for the TaxPayers' Alliance added: "This new system will cause uproar amongst hard-working families up and down the country.

"It will effectively penalise ordinary people for living in good neighbourhoods. If there is less crime, people should if anything, be paying less in tax not more, as they demand less from the police.

"We need a fair system of council finance where local services are paid for locally, and where money is not siphoned off by central Government.

"This will not happen until we have true accountability where people can see what they're paying for, and can actually vote for change."
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:42:55 PM EST
That's insane.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:59:03 PM EST
Give it time, it will soon be here.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:05:45 PM EST
ROBin Hood 2006.
Actually, pretty scary when you think about it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:06:39 PM EST
BTW you know what Segal aka Chuck lite said about assumptions...right?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:08:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By bytor94:
Give it time, it will soon be here.


revolution.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:11:03 PM EST
Jesus Christ.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:13:55 PM EST
this'll make cold war E.Germany look like a tourist spot!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:28:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch:

Originally Posted By bytor94:
Give it time, it will soon be here.


revolution.


This is what happens when you give up the right to keep and bear arms. It'll NEVER happen here in the USA. The Libtards might try. But enforcement would make the ATF raid on the Davidians look like a Sunday picnic.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:32:02 PM EST
Time to start leaving car parts on the lawn.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:43:38 PM EST
It's sad to see this happen to our greatest ally. I only hope we can avoid this by observing what happens.

GB, it is not too late to take it back, but every day you wait makes that effort much more painful.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:46:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Time to start leaving more car parts on the lawn.


Heh. Livin in squalor.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:50:39 PM EST
My property taxes are already higher than .78%
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:53:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:53:51 PM EST by x156]
Pretty creepy stuff. Makes you think twice about putting stuff on your credit cards and not buying in cash. Stuff like this is also why I hate red light cameras. They are just the beginning.

x156

Edit: /action Puts on my tinfoil cap.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:04:56 PM EST
But can they turn down the volume of their Big Brother two-way TV screens? Or is that only for Inner Party members?

Airfield One is double-plus good!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:09:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By go3:
Jesus Christ.

I agree.

That's just stupid.

But that's what libs are about. Being stupid.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:35:15 PM EST
How dare those uppity people live in better conditions than the poor!?!

Have you ever met the poor? Wonderful people, the poor.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:42:43 PM EST
Yesterday's news. It's already happened here.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:44:20 PM EST
How is this different from the property tax system in Texas?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:47:45 PM EST
Its also demographic suicide. One of the biggest barriers to young PRODUCTIVE couples starting families is lack of affordable housing. Responsible people typically don't have kids until they have a nice enough place to raise them. Mind you I said productive people. Welfare rats who don't care just plop 'em out and demand a bigger apartment from big brother. If anything, the government should be subsidizing housing rather than taxing it in order to encourage the productive people to have more productive kids.

Oh wait, what am I thinking. Socialism isn't about making sense, its about raising enough in taxes to buy the votes of the scumbag classes.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:48:30 PM EST
Here's what ya do: You take your big bucks, move your entourage to a slum, buy up a block or so and build a palace like the one you just sold and live there with your bodyguards and alarm system.

After a few years the tax savings will pay for everthang.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:55:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By MonkTx
Have you ever met the poor? Wonderful people, the poor.


Didn't John Cleese say that in "Time Bandits?"

I'd laugh at the UK's downfall, but it's kinda hard to do it when the USA isn't too far behind. Who knows? Maybe we'll be at the same point the UK is now in a couple decades or so.

-Scott
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:59:36 PM EST
steps towards achieving a tyranical government:

1. unarm the populace, so they have no way of fighting back
2. tax them heavily
3. enslave them

congratulations great britain, you're on your way to a 15th century feudal society.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:05:07 PM EST
Did you see the part were the taxes go down in labours base areas?

I will bet that the British labeur party is the same as our "democratic" party, not just in there policys, but also in there base the ghetto rats. The ghetto rats see there taxes (assumeing they actually pay any) going down, and not only that but the "rich" pay more (like they always do.) ensureing there vote is bought for the next election.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:06:02 PM EST
fuck em, go drink some warm beer, let the lawn grow over, dont ever paint, and buy a few pigs and put in the back yard. That'll shoot the property value all to hell.

How are they supposed to prevent them from photographing and apprasing their houses anyway? "Hold them at Rock-Point?" WTF rights can the brits fucking surrender this year?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:56:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 6:57:01 PM EST by SteyrAUG]
So glad we threw their fucking tea in the harbor.

We probably bought an extra 100 years.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:04:07 PM EST
For those saying "It'll never happen here!" Guess what? It already did! Right here in Texas.

Remember the "Robin Hood Plan" for school finance? At least the State supreme court finally ruled it unConstitutional.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:14:22 PM EST
I have a question. Keep in mind I've never owned a house but I am currently saving for one.

How is this any different from the way the US property tax system works? Don't we get taxed like 0.5-1.5% of our home values annually? And doesn't this translate into a higher amount the nicer the neighborhood we live in?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 7:49:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
So glad we threw their fucking tea in the harbor.

We probably bought an extra 100 years.


Time is almost up. I believe the clock started running when Sixteenth Amendment was ratified.

"The payment of taxes, being compulsory, of course furnishes no evidence that any one voluntarily supports the Constitution.

1. It is true that the theory of our Constitution is, that all taxes are paid voluntarily; that our government is a mutual insurance company, voluntarily entered into by the people with each other; that that each man makes a free and purely voluntary contract with all others who are parties to the Constitution, to pay so much money for so much protection, the same as he does with any other insurance company; and that he is just as free not to be protected, and not to pay tax, as he is to pay a tax, and be protected.

But this theory of our government is wholly different from the practical fact. The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life." And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol [*13] to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful." Lysander Spooner- No Treason
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 8:16:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 9:34:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 9:34:45 PM EST by raven]
Punish people who do things right in order to benefit the people who do things wrong.

Makes perfect sense. It's only fair.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:08:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Its also demographic suicide..........

Europe is already circling the drain Demographicly. Why do you think so many ROPers are moving in? In another few decades several countries will be majority muslim.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:27:11 PM EST
I can't believe none of you said this yet.


"From those according to their means, to those according to their needs."


Your Buddy,

Karl Marx

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:51:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 12:52:58 AM EST by vito113]
Me and Mrs Vito are leaving as soon as the pension pays up… It will be so long and kiss my arse England…

Son and his family have applied to Canada and been approved.

ANdy
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:56:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:59:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Me and Mrs Vito are leaving as soon as the pension pays up… It will be so long and kiss my arse England…

Son and his family have applied to Canada and been approved.

ANdy


Canada kind of sucks, but it is so far better than the UK.


He'd have preferred the US but getting in is painfully difficult if you're British.

ANdy
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:11:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:16:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Time to start leaving car parts on the lawn.


And calling in a B&E every other week.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:24:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Me and Mrs Vito are leaving as soon as the pension pays up… It will be so long and kiss my arse England…

Son and his family have applied to Canada and been approved.

ANdy


Canada kind of sucks, but it is so far better than the UK.


He'd have preferred the US but getting in is painfully difficult if you're British.

ANdy


I know, it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I would love for all the Conservative Brits to come here and become good Americans.


That is nearly impossible they follow the law… The US should just put up a sign Europeans need not apply.

I have a British friend that moved here several years ago… you would not believe the crap and expense she had to go through to work and stay until she got to the point (now) when she could become a US citizen. Talk about resent illegal’s she won’t even eat in a Mexican restaurant.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:41:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 5:42:39 AM EST by M4Fanatic]
Maybe we could start an Arfcom Program of marrying conservative Euros who wish to come to the U.S. Have them sign a prenuptual agreement and divorce in 5, just after the Euro gets his citizenship.

Of course, we'd need more arfcom women.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:43:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By BulletBait:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Its also demographic suicide..........

Europe is already circling the drain Demographicly. Why do you think so many ROPers are moving in? In another few decades several countries will be majority muslim.


And ours will be majority Mexican and South American........ What's your point??

We in the US, are just as "free", as the Euros....... And, growing just as "cultureless" as they, thanks to US policy.

Guns?? They don't NEED our guns!!

We are going along with the program, just fine. They don't HAVE to disarm us........
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:44:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
Me and Mrs Vito are leaving as soon as the pension pays up… It will be so long and kiss my arse England…

Son and his family have applied to Canada and been approved.

ANdy


You'd make a most interesting Texan.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:27:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:14:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Time to start leaving car parts on the lawn.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:17:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Me and Mrs Vito are leaving as soon as the pension pays up… It will be so long and kiss my arse England…

Son and his family have applied to Canada and been approved.

ANdy


Canada kind of sucks, but it is so far better than the UK.


He'd have preferred the US but getting in is painfully difficult if you're British.

ANdy


I know, it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I would love for all
the Conservative Brits to come here and become good Americans.


If you live in Canada for a few years, would it be easier to get into the US?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:29:46 AM EST
Would it be easier for me and my family to get into the States if we learnt Spanish first...and then enter from the South...
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:39:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By kar98k:
Yesterday's news. It's already happened here.



Thanks, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who thought so. I live in a "nice" area of my town and because I do, my house is worth more than those who don't live in a nice area of my town---hence, more taxes.
I dunno...I fail to see how this is news?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:40:04 AM EST
My property taxes are based upon the 'value' of my property. And that 'value' is assessed based upon the neighborhood. Nicer homes, nicer property = higher taxes.

If I add to my home, or increase its value, those improvements are also taxed at the higher rate for more 'valuable' property.

The only difference is the local 'tax snoopers' don't use a computer, they just assess the value based upon their opinion of it.

Luckily, they are still not taxing my property based upon actual land value in my area.

If they did THAT I would have to move. My taxable value is about one third of what the property would actually sell for.

It's kind of "we're raping you, but we are being nice about it, ok?"

TRG
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:46:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
My property taxes are based upon the 'value' of my property. And that 'value' is assessed based upon the neighborhood. Nicer homes, nicer property = higher taxes.

If I add to my home, or increase its value, those improvements are also taxed at the higher rate for more 'valuable' property.

The only difference is the local 'tax snoopers' don't use a computer, they just assess the value based upon their opinion of it.

Luckily, they are still not taxing my property based upon actual land value in my area.

If they did THAT I would have to move. My taxable value is about one third of what the property would actually sell for.

It's kind of "we're raping you, but we are being nice about it, ok?"


TRG


Right now my tax value IS market value. HOWEVER, they softened that blow (2 years ago when the outrageous prices peaked here) by lowering the tax per thousand rate by $2.00/per thousand.

Yeah.
I barely saw the increase
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:52:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
Me and Mrs Vito are leaving as soon as the pension pays up… It will be so long and kiss my arse England…

Son and his family have applied to Canada and been approved.

ANdy


Are you moving to Canada or the US? I know you said you were rejected before, but you could apply again!
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 8:54:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
Would it be easier for me and my family to get into the States if we learnt Spanish first...and then enter from the South...


Si, amigo.
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