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Posted: 11/28/2014 4:29:31 PM EDT
Here's an article I wrote reviewing three of the better ammunition choices in 7.62x39mm. As always, I'd love to hear your criticism.
In previous articles we discussed the benefits of an AK for home defense and we dispelled some of the myths and misconceptions associated with them as well as with the use rifles in general for home defense. We would now like to highlight a few ammo choices to make that .30 caliber AK or SKS (or Mini-30 or 7.62×39 AR….) as effective as it can be. Of course, any ammunition that functions reliably in your firearm can be useful for defense, but it’s a good idea to carefully choose the best ammunition if our lives or the lives of loved ones might depend on it. It is also true that plain, vanilla ball rifle ammo will beat out the very best pistol ammo in terminal effect. That said, choosing full metal jacket ammunition in 7.62x39mm leaves a lot of potential on the table and FMJ can penetrate much more deeply than is normally desired for defense.
It wasn’t too long ago that your options for defense ammunition in 7.62x39mm were limited to either plain ball, cheap Russian hollow points that mostly behaved just like FMJ, or cheap Russian soft points that mostly performed as they should. So most people who chose 7.62x39mm for defense mostly chose the latter, mostly content with the probably decent performance most of the time. Today, there are several very good choices available from domestic manufacturers that offer excellent terminal ballistics and the quality control we expect from American ammunition makers. View Quote The rest is here, if you're interested. |
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hmmm. I wasn't aware that they were making such ammo. recently I moved but prior to that was keeping the AK for home defense with Wolf soft point that I stacked deep a long time ago. Might be time to upgrade.
ETA: and thanks for the write up. I liked it. |
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Excellent review and well written.
Thanks for the info,and tests. |
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Great Article.
One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. |
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Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. View Quote Love your avatar. I had forgotten about that movie. Gonna have to search it out now. |
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hmmm. I wasn't aware that they were making such ammo. recently I moved but prior to that was keeping the AK for home defense with Wolf soft point that I stacked deep a long time ago. Might be time to upgrade. ETA: and thanks for the write up. I liked it. View Quote The Russian soft points ought to perform pretty well. I tested 154 gr Tula and got good results. I'll be testing 124 gr Tula soft points soon. |
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I stocked up on the Ulyanovsk 8M3 ammunition many years ago. I still have multiple cases left, but I'd buy much more if I could find it. It's the best-performing 7.62x39 I've found. http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/762x39-Ulyanovsk-8M3-Hollow-Point-SpecSheet.png http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ulyanovsk-8m3-effect-ballistic-gel.jpg View Quote 8M3 looks like a great projectile but there doesn't appear to be any current production ammo that uses it. |
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Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. View Quote That's a very good point. |
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The Russian soft points ought to perform pretty well. I tested 154 gr Tula and got good results. I'll be testing 124 gr Tula soft points soon. View Quote The main problem with Ruskie ammo is that they sometimes change the bullets and don't let anyone know that. So, the 154gr load that performed well this year might be a totally different one next year, even though the ammo and packaging is identical otherwise. The Hornady SST is consistently excellent. |
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8M3 looks like a great projectile but there doesn't appear to be any current production ammo that uses it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I stocked up on the Ulyanovsk 8M3 ammunition many years ago. I still have multiple cases left, but I'd buy much more if I could find it. It's the best-performing 7.62x39 I've found. http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/762x39-Ulyanovsk-8M3-Hollow-Point-SpecSheet.png http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ulyanovsk-8m3-effect-ballistic-gel.jpg 8M3 looks like a great projectile but there doesn't appear to be any current production ammo that uses it. I found a lot of Herter's HP in Cabela's last year that was loaded with 8M3. Bought as much as I could off the shelf, as you can't guarantee what's in the plastic ammo boxes. Just remember to bring a safety pin with you when you look at 7.62x39 HP in person. Insert the pin into the tip, and feel the inner edges of the bullet tip. If you can feel the ridges of the three pre-fail cuts inside the hollow tip, you've just found 8M3. Seems to be completely random as to who will load with this bullet, so you have to look for yourself. |
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Quoted: Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. View Quote Once you enter the realm of AKs, the very best authority on the subject of reliable 7.62 x 39 are the Eastern Europeans. For reliable defense, I choose Yugoslav M43, some PRVI, even WOLF gold anything European really. Would not dare chamber any domestic USA made AK ammo with commercial grade primers indoors.
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Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. View Quote Holy Berlin Wall of text! |
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Did you measure the diameter of the bullets? My AK has never grouped well with US made ammo because, at least several years ago, it was all loaded with .308 bullets instead of .310 or .311 like they should have been. I mean, I tried Winchester, Remington, etc. and couldn't do better than 4-6 inches at 50 yards. Wolf was good for half that, which was good enough for my home and surrounding areas, as well as deer season.
ETA: Herp. I just looked through the article again, to see that you did measure them. Good job! |
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I found a lot of Herter's HP in Cabela's last year that was loaded with 8M3. Bought as much as I could off the shelf, as you can't guarantee what's in the plastic ammo boxes. Just remember to bring a safety pin with you when you look at 7.62x39 HP in person. Insert the pin into the tip, and feel the inner edges of the bullet tip. If you can feel the ridges of the three pre-fail cuts inside the hollow tip, you've just found 8M3. Seems to be completely random as to who will load with this bullet, so you have to look for yourself. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I stocked up on the Ulyanovsk 8M3 ammunition many years ago. I still have multiple cases left, but I'd buy much more if I could find it. It's the best-performing 7.62x39 I've found. http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/762x39-Ulyanovsk-8M3-Hollow-Point-SpecSheet.png http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ulyanovsk-8m3-effect-ballistic-gel.jpg 8M3 looks like a great projectile but there doesn't appear to be any current production ammo that uses it. I found a lot of Herter's HP in Cabela's last year that was loaded with 8M3. Bought as much as I could off the shelf, as you can't guarantee what's in the plastic ammo boxes. Just remember to bring a safety pin with you when you look at 7.62x39 HP in person. Insert the pin into the tip, and feel the inner edges of the bullet tip. If you can feel the ridges of the three pre-fail cuts inside the hollow tip, you've just found 8M3. Seems to be completely random as to who will load with this bullet, so you have to look for yourself. Hmm... the Tul HP Ammo sitting next to me has this; figured it was non-expanding HP bulllet, but that's looking to not be the case. |
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Just my line of thought, but if I put 30 rounds of 7.62x39 anywhere from chest to abdomen, I'm pretty damn sure it won't matter what type of ammo I used. Because I'm betting your gonna stop doing bad things...
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I stocked up on the Ulyanovsk 8M3 ammunition many years ago. I still have multiple cases left, but I'd buy much more if I could find it. It's the best-performing 7.62x39 I've found. http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/762x39-Ulyanovsk-8M3-Hollow-Point-SpecSheet.png http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ulyanovsk-8m3-effect-ballistic-gel.jpg View Quote I accidentally have a bunch of cases of this shit. I thought it was just regular hollow point then reading reviews it's 8M3 badness. Awesome. |
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Good article, but you have to fix the last paragraph, again....
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I found a lot of Herter's HP in Cabela's last year that was loaded with 8M3. Bought as much as I could off the shelf, as you can't guarantee what's in the plastic ammo boxes. Just remember to bring a safety pin with you when you look at 7.62x39 HP in person. Insert the pin into the tip, and feel the inner edges of the bullet tip. If you can feel the ridges of the three pre-fail cuts inside the hollow tip, you've just found 8M3. Seems to be completely random as to who will load with this bullet, so you have to look for yourself. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I stocked up on the Ulyanovsk 8M3 ammunition many years ago. I still have multiple cases left, but I'd buy much more if I could find it. It's the best-performing 7.62x39 I've found. http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/762x39-Ulyanovsk-8M3-Hollow-Point-SpecSheet.png http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ulyanovsk-8m3-effect-ballistic-gel.jpg 8M3 looks like a great projectile but there doesn't appear to be any current production ammo that uses it. I found a lot of Herter's HP in Cabela's last year that was loaded with 8M3. Bought as much as I could off the shelf, as you can't guarantee what's in the plastic ammo boxes. Just remember to bring a safety pin with you when you look at 7.62x39 HP in person. Insert the pin into the tip, and feel the inner edges of the bullet tip. If you can feel the ridges of the three pre-fail cuts inside the hollow tip, you've just found 8M3. Seems to be completely random as to who will load with this bullet, so you have to look for yourself. Many of those are not actually 8M3. There are bullets out there that have pre-fail cuts inside the jacket but are not 8M3. |
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Your argument has some merit, but it ENDS just short of the AK series rifles. Once you enter the realm of AKs, the very best authority on the subject of reliable 7.62 x 39 are the Eastern Europeans. For reliable defense, I choose Yugoslav M43, some PRVI, even WOLF gold anything European really. Would not dare chamber any domestic USA made AK ammo with commercial grade primers indoors. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. For reliable defense, I choose Yugoslav M43, some PRVI, even WOLF gold anything European really. Would not dare chamber any domestic USA made AK ammo with commercial grade primers indoors. Why not? |
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Hmm... the Tul HP Ammo sitting next to me has this; figured it was non-expanding HP bulllet, but that's looking to not be the case. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I stocked up on the Ulyanovsk 8M3 ammunition many years ago. I still have multiple cases left, but I'd buy much more if I could find it. It's the best-performing 7.62x39 I've found. http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/762x39-Ulyanovsk-8M3-Hollow-Point-SpecSheet.png http://www.ammochannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ulyanovsk-8m3-effect-ballistic-gel.jpg 8M3 looks like a great projectile but there doesn't appear to be any current production ammo that uses it. I found a lot of Herter's HP in Cabela's last year that was loaded with 8M3. Bought as much as I could off the shelf, as you can't guarantee what's in the plastic ammo boxes. Just remember to bring a safety pin with you when you look at 7.62x39 HP in person. Insert the pin into the tip, and feel the inner edges of the bullet tip. If you can feel the ridges of the three pre-fail cuts inside the hollow tip, you've just found 8M3. Seems to be completely random as to who will load with this bullet, so you have to look for yourself. Hmm... the Tul HP Ammo sitting next to me has this; figured it was non-expanding HP bulllet, but that's looking to not be the case. I shot some Tula 124 gr HP into gelatin the other day and got no fragmentation. It does have cuts inside the jacket. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. For reliable defense, I choose Yugoslav M43, some PRVI, even WOLF gold anything European really. Would not dare chamber any domestic USA made AK ammo with commercial grade primers indoors. Why not? |
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Just my line of thought, but if I put 30 rounds of 7.62x39 anywhere from chest to abdomen, I'm pretty damn sure it won't matter what type of ammo I used. Because I'm betting your gonna stop doing bad things... View Quote A few problems with that. First is that there might be some legal problems with shooting a bad guy 30 times. While FMJ will do someone up pretty well, defense oriented ammo will mess them up more and reduce the down range risk to third parties. |
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Domestic primers are softer than military ones. Never heard of an AK doing it, but FALs have been known to fire the soft primers while chambering. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Great Article. One thing I would add is that it isn't necessarily just the bullet that you have to think about when selecting ammunition for defending yourself and your loved ones. Any .30 rifle bullet is going to put a serious hurt on your target assuming that you do your part in aiming it. But will it fire and cycle in your weapon??? Are the components and manufacturing process up the standard we want?You can have an great training, a perfect weapon, loaded with a miracle bullet and it won't help you if the primer isn't set off when the firing pin hits it. Low cost foreign ammo is great but it is also of somewhat dubious origin. The name on the box like Wolf for example usually isn't the manufacturer it is just the name of the company packaging it up and putting it out for sale. If you had to depend on one round of ammunition to save your life or the life of the person you love most in the world... ammo made somewhere in Eastern Europe sold in cases of 1000 might not be your first choice. I want ammo made in the US by a recognized manufacturer that has a good reputation for putting out a quality product. Having it sold as premium ammunition that was manufactured with the idea that lives may depend on the performance of each round is also a big plus to me. I want good quality components carefully loaded by experts who are serious about what the are doing. For me it's buying a certain peace of mind that things will work as expected when they need to. For reliable defense, I choose Yugoslav M43, some PRVI, even WOLF gold anything European really. Would not dare chamber any domestic USA made AK ammo with commercial grade primers indoors. Why not? I'm aware of that, but no one worries about chambering domestic ammo in their AR. That said, I ride the bolt forward on my HD AR because I've read that primers that get smacked repeatedly by a floating firing pin can be deactivated. I can't remember the source so I don't know how true it is, but the story was that a PD experienced a high percentage of failures in the first round in patrol carbines when they did their annual qualification. No reason you couldn't ride the charging handle forward on an AK if you're concerned about the issue. |
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Thanks for the article. I currently have the Hornady SST as my 1st choice for home defense ammo and it looks good from what I have seen although that Fusion does look better. Have you seen any tests of the Hornady SST out of a SBR length barrel of 10.5 inches or so? |
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Good article. I've felt the recent developments in 7.62x39 ammo options have been largely ignored in the Great Debate. It's one of the reasons I'm strongly considering picking up a Rock River LAR-47 next year...
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OP, have you ever tested this Winchester ammo? ETA: I have some of this and Lapua soft points. I bought these mainly to have a hunting stash. http://cdn3.volusion.com/sfvhn.cpdkd/v/vspfiles/photos/X76239-2.jpg?1373986624 Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote I have not. I'll keep an eye out for it. |
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Thanks for the article. I currently have the Hornady SST as my 1st choice for home defense ammo and it looks good from what I have seen although that Fusion does look better. Have you seen any tests of the Hornady SST out of a SBR length barrel of 10.5 inches or so? View Quote No, sir, but I'll probably do that soon. I should be testing the Fusion and Tula 154 gr soft point from a 10.5" barrel today, if everything goes well. |
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No, sir, but I'll probably do that soon. I should be testing the Fusion and Tula 154 gr soft point from a 10.5" barrel today, if everything goes well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Thanks for the article. I currently have the Hornady SST as my 1st choice for home defense ammo and it looks good from what I have seen although that Fusion does look better. Have you seen any tests of the Hornady SST out of a SBR length barrel of 10.5 inches or so? No, sir, but I'll probably do that soon. I should be testing the Fusion and Tula 154 gr soft point from a 10.5" barrel today, if everything goes well. Excellent. I look forward to your post and thanks again for doing all of this. |
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Excellent. I look forward to your post and thanks again for doing all of this. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Thanks for the article. I currently have the Hornady SST as my 1st choice for home defense ammo and it looks good from what I have seen although that Fusion does look better. Have you seen any tests of the Hornady SST out of a SBR length barrel of 10.5 inches or so? No, sir, but I'll probably do that soon. I should be testing the Fusion and Tula 154 gr soft point from a 10.5" barrel today, if everything goes well. Excellent. I look forward to your post and thanks again for doing all of this. My pleasure. Thank you for your support. |
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