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Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:01:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


I don't know. That is 3/1. We had a guy imbeded with us just taking pics. We would generally wait untill the frag was out before we did anyhing.

Did you guys move in and then throw the frag? Seems kinda backwards to me.
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No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:06:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By INV136:
I had an ACOG TA01NSN for my Colt M4 rifle and it was adequate. I sold it and bought an Elcan Specter DR 1-4X and it is much better. I like having the 1X and 4X like two scopes in one as well as the choice to switch between an illuminated red dot or plain cross hairs. Plus, it has iron sights on top of the scope itself. The Elcan will cost a little more than the ACOG, but is worth it. Some people will whine and whimper about the weight, but, it is like having two or three scopes in one unit. A little bit of weight never hurt anybody. Unless you're a little girl.
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Carry one every day for a year or more. Carry it to chow, to the shitter, to the rack, to the shower, shoot around obstacles with it for an extended period of time, get in and out of your vehicle a thousand times while it hangs up in your gear. You may begin to hate it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:08:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:

If that is a hostage rescue, then throwing a frag makes you a seal.

that said, why does everyone else seem to just be watching/taking pictures?
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Because Jimmy is about to unleash his nade game! Look at old boy's face, he's in awe, lol. I can't say anything, probably would have done the same thing.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:14:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By 03RN:


I don't know. That is 3/1. We had a guy imbeded with us just taking pics. We would generally wait untill the frag was out before we did anyhing.

Did you guys move in and then throw the frag? Seems kinda backwards to me.
No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
I must have missed it, what are they moving to?
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:14:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By 03RN:


I don't know. That is 3/1. We had a guy imbeded with us just taking pics. We would generally wait untill the frag was out before we did anyhing.

Did you guys move in and then throw the frag? Seems kinda backwards to me.
No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
Well that would make sense if you didn't have someone embedded with you to just take pictures.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:16:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By 03RN:


I don't know. That is 3/1. We had a guy imbeded with us just taking pics. We would generally wait untill the frag was out before we did anyhing.

Did you guys move in and then throw the frag? Seems kinda backwards to me.
No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
What were you guys shooting at before you entered the building with the bad guys in, or even threw the frag out? As much shooting as we did in that City it's not like it was constant shooting the entire time.

A lot of the time we used our 51s as security untill we cleared the building. Then they would move to the roof and blow something up. I don't know if that's what 3/1 did.

My point wasn't the A4s and acogs in the pic. Just the rockets and that we really did use them and 203s during MOUT.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:17:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:


If BAC was equivalent to red dot, why does essentially no CQB unit use ACOGs?
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There could be about 100 reasons for that. I never said the acog was perfect for all scenarios, but it works very well if you can BAC. i am very fast with it but I have used a TA33 for several years now and I shoot a lot including a couple of high round count classes per year. I also have T1s etc and i am just as fast with the TA33 as the T1. Finally in my area longer shots are a possibility and not all fighting is CQB.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:19:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


What were you guys shooting at before you entered the building with the bad guys in, or even threw the frag out? As much shooting as we did in that City it's not like it was constant shooting the entire time.

A lot of the time we used our 51s as security untill we cleared the building. Then they would move to the roof and blow something up. I don't know if that's what 3/1 did.

My point wasn't the A4s and acogs in the pic. Just the rockets and that we really did use them and 203s during MOUT.
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I'm just busting your balls.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:19:41 PM EDT
I have used an ACOG and various other LPV optics. For $1200 I would choose a LPV optic from a reputable manufacturer ( Leupold, NF, S&B, Trijicon, Vortex, among others)  with a 1x lower mag level, mildot reticle, and MRAD dial turrets.

I just don't care for the fixed 4x. Its not really enough for the far side of midrange and sucks for 100m and in. Also, I like a milret as it is more versatile for ranging and quickly adjusting for wind/POI/ and movers. YMMV, IMHO....

In the end pick what you want and train with it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:26:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I'm just busting your balls.
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By 03RN:


What were you guys shooting at before you entered the building with the bad guys in, or even threw the frag out? As much shooting as we did in that City it's not like it was constant shooting the entire time.

A lot of the time we used our 51s as security untill we cleared the building. Then they would move to the roof and blow something up. I don't know if that's what 3/1 did.

My point wasn't the A4s and acogs in the pic. Just the rockets and that we really did use them and 203s during MOUT.
I'm just busting your balls.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:29:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:


No.  But we had more people shooting and less people standing around taking pictures.  But that is just me.

You are also posting 13 years ago.  Should we all look at those pictures and think that a 20 inch AR with fixed buttstock remains the CQB weapon of choice?

We have a pretty senior marine CW5 on here saying they are moving on from the ACOG.
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The ACOG doesn't have any exposed moving parts. That's going to come into play when you start handing E-3s new optics.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:29:57 PM EDT
Whats the best optic model I should put on my M249s?
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:30:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wag_bag:

The ACOG doesn't have any exposed moving parts. That's going to come into play when you start handing E-3s new optics.
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If you don't mind me asking, whats hanging off your primary right now?
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:35:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2017 3:35:58 PM EDT by RustedAce]
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:38:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RustedAce:


In what way did it not meet its general purpose greatness reputation?

It shoots close, it shoots far, it doesn't break, it's lightweight.
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kinda this.

It is still a great scope.  There is a narrow band where it doesn't work as well as advertised with BAC supposedly providing the equivalent as a RDS.

Since I am habitual nose to the charging handle kinda guy, the shitty scope relief doesn't bother me at all.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:39:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
There could be about 100 reasons for that. I never said the acog was perfect for all scenarios, but it works very well if you can BAC. i am very fast with it but I have used a TA33 for several years now and I shoot a lot including a couple of high round count classes per year. I also have T1s etc and i am just as fast with the TA33 as the T1. Finally in my area longer shots are a possibility and not all fighting is CQB.
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Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


If BAC was equivalent to red dot, why does essentially no CQB unit use ACOGs?
There could be about 100 reasons for that. I never said the acog was perfect for all scenarios, but it works very well if you can BAC. i am very fast with it but I have used a TA33 for several years now and I shoot a lot including a couple of high round count classes per year. I also have T1s etc and i am just as fast with the TA33 as the T1. Finally in my area longer shots are a possibility and not all fighting is CQB.
I consider myself real solid with BAC inside even 10 yards, and have a ta31 on my HD rifle.
But it's at best "close" to the speed of a dot.  Its certainly not better.  and in a  worse case I could spaz out under stress and do the eye back n forth thing sylvan was talking about.  That won't happen with a red dot, so the red dot is objectively better at close range.  I love my acog though and it makes sense for my uses. And they are worth the money.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:39:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:40:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:


If you don't mind me asking, whats hanging off your primary right now?
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A red dot in a G mount.

Frankly, when shooting close and fast, I don't really register the dot. Gun goes up and rounds come out. I can tell you how many rounds I shot, where I was in the room, where everyone else was in the room, how many rounds they shot, but fuck if I ever actually remember seeing the dot.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:41:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:


kinda this.

It is still a great scope.  There is a narrow band where it doesn't work as well as advertised with BAC supposedly providing the equivalent as a RDS.

Since I am habitual nose to the charging handle kinda guy, the shitty scope relief doesn't bother me at all.
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I started to post something snarky but then decided to not be like you. Have you ever used a TA33? I don't think you have based on your eye relief comment.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:42:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
ACOG is a great optic.

the industry is awash in optics but ACOG is on the short list of what should be considered acceptable for combat.  But it has limitations and technology has moved on. When batteries were horribly inefficient, tritium made a lot of sense.  Now with modern battery life, the tritium is holding it back along with the use of the fiber optic tube.  

There are many people on here who have LOTS more experience in combat than I do.  Some of them are posting.

A range optic and a combat optic are two very different things.  Sometimes there is a Venn overlap.  But just because something works on the range, doesn't mean it works in the real world.

On a slightly related note...

I frankly don't get the Elcan love.  Never liked that thing.
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I have no combat experience whatsoever.  If I did, I might feel differently about the equipment that I thought was best.  As it is, an Aimpoint is idiot proof, which is likely an important feature for one such as myself .  With an RDS I face no issues of getting eye relief right with a magnifying optic, or of lining up aperture and post with iron sights, all of which would be occurring in a moment when clear thinking is problematic at best.  With an RDS, it's simple: both eyes on threat, shoulder rifle, bringing sight into line in front of eye.  At this point I should be on target, or at least very close.  Adjust point of aim if needed, fire until threat is stopped.

If door kicking professionally is your job and train on that day in and day out, other options are open to you to make you more effective.  As I am not a professional, I like to keep it as simple as possible.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:45:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:


I started to post something snarky but then decided to not be like you. Have you ever used a TA33? I don't think you have based on your eye relief comment.
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I have.

Green and Red.  I like it better than the 31 as a GP, but it still isn't RDS equivalent.  I even bought a 26S to see how close I could get.  

the guy asked about a combat optic.  we could exclude everyone without combat experience in the discussion and probably have a better one for it.

If the thread was "what is the best optic that buckshot jim uses on the range" then I wouldn't have posted.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:45:34 PM EDT
So, is it $200 or $500 to replace the tritium in an ACOG?
I keep reading conflicting reports.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:47:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wag_bag:

A red dot in a G mount.

Frankly, when shooting close and fast, I don't really register the dot. Gun goes up and rounds come out. I can tell you how many rounds I shot, where I was in the room, where everyone else was in the room, how many rounds they shot, but fuck if I ever actually remember seeing the dot.
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And inside a building ACOG doesn't bother me because I am looking over the top anyway.  Like I said, there is a narrow band.  But it just happens to be a ridiculously important narrow band.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:47:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:50:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2017 3:54:10 PM EDT by JamesP81]
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Originally Posted By RustedAce:


In what way did it not meet its general purpose greatness reputation?

It shoots close, it shoots far, it doesn't break, it's lightweight.
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Don't get me wrong; it was a great optic.  Nice glass, though the glass quality wasn't quite as great as I had been lead to believe (it always seemed like color was washed out, though clarity was quite good).  Reticle was quite useable.  My problems with it were probably more personal than anything.  I was slow up close doing double tap drills compared to an RDS.  Achieving proper eye relief during drills while not precisely difficult, was something that slowed things up a little.  BAC worked fine for me, but I was still noticeably faster with an RDS and far more comfortable with one as well.  Especially if shooting while moving; something about the motion of the magnified image made the BAC technique harder for me.  It was easier if stationary.  I was a member of a club range then that had a place where we could do shoot on the move type practice, but I don't live there anymore, really miss that

It was a very good scope, it just wasn't the end all be all to me.  RDS sights work better for me and fulfill my purposes better.  One thing that I was hugely impressed by, however, was its low light capabilities.  It made shooting at near dark way too easy.  That's one area that it totally outclassed any RDS ever made.  If I had a dedicated AR for hunting coyotes, I think an ACOG would be perfect for that.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 3:57:41 PM EDT
If you have multiple ARs, having one ACOG would be a good idea.  I only have access to 200 and 400 yard ranges.  If you know the range, the BDC does the rest superbly.

The only thing I struggle with is closer ranges.  I typically use the killflash so I can take advantage of the flip cap, making it into an occluded eye sight.  Not ideal but it works. 

Lately, I've been drawn to 1-6X and 1-8X variable optics.  I can see the utility of these as well. 
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 4:19:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 4:31:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2017 4:33:49 PM EDT by buckshot_jim]
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:


I have.

Green and Red.  I like it better than the 31 as a GP, but it still isn't RDS equivalent.  I even bought a 26S to see how close I could get.  

the guy asked about a combat optic.  we could exclude everyone without combat experience in the discussion and probably have a better one for it.

If the thread was "what is the best optic that buckshot jim uses on the range" then I wouldn't have posted.
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Seeing that I have been in combat your little jab means nothing. Thanks anyway.

eta: I did my combat with irons and I would have given a lot of money for an optic like the TA33 during my time.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 4:58:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JamesP81:
I had a TA33 for a while.  I don't know what it's actual eye relief was, but it was quite generous.  Definitely more than 1.9" IMO.
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Originally Posted By JamesP81:
Originally Posted By PMB1086:
I was reading an article comparing different ACOGs and it said that the TA-33 is listed as having 1.9" of eye relief, but it is actually closer to 4". Does this match anyone else's experience? I'm trying to figure out which ACOG has the longest eye relief.

Link to article.
I had a TA33 for a while.  I don't know what it's actual eye relief was, but it was quite generous.  Definitely more than 1.9" IMO.
The book on my second one said 3.8 or 3.9 ". But it's actually useable out to like 5".
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 4:58:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/99604/IMG_0275_JPG-292750.jpg

I love my Trijicon ACOG TA01 NSN on my Lone Star Armory TX15. The furthest I've shot with this rifle/optic is 500 yards, but the BDC was dead on at 500 with Black Hills 77 gr TMK and Mk262.
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I love Mk262's accuracy.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 5:04:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:


Seeing that I have been in combat your little jab means nothing. Thanks anyway.

eta: I did my combat with irons and I would have given a lot of money for an optic like the TA33 during my time.
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It is a huge improvement over irons.  Optics have changed infantry combat significantly.  I have used the ACOG (31) in combat.  Great optic.  But there is a gap in its capability that is worth mentioning.  I think there are better optics out there now, either the piggy dot red dot or one of the 1-6s.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 6:24:02 PM EDT
Some people also find it very difficult to concentrate on having a clear front sight post, when in combat.

Link Posted: 8/28/2017 6:57:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By nsl:
So, is it $200 or $500 to replace the tritium in an ACOG?
I keep reading conflicting reports.
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Well???
I'm even reading it on other sites.
How usable are they when the tritium goes down?
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 7:26:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By nsl:
Well???
I'm even reading it on other sites.
How usable are they when the tritium goes down?
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Originally Posted By nsl:
Originally Posted By nsl:
So, is it $200 or $500 to replace the tritium in an ACOG?
I keep reading conflicting reports.
Well???
I'm even reading it on other sites.
How usable are they when the tritium goes down?
If there is ambient light the fiber optic works.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 8:02:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By nsl:

Well???
I'm even reading it on other sites.
How usable are they when the tritium goes down?
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I sent my TA31 in just last month and it was $188 for the tritium and $60 for the fiber optic tube.

An ACOG is perfectly usable during the day even if the tritium's dead.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 9:15:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By waterglass:


no. they probably cost like 100 dollars to produce.

You pay over a grand for them because of the radiologicals. Far as I know, no one else makes optics with tritium in them.

Tritium vials aint like computer chips, they have a very small parts train, so you would think they would be cheaper than Kazakhstepi pubes/
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Well there's always NcStar...
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 9:18:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2017 11:52:55 PM EDT by cms81586]
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Originally Posted By Chas8008:

You are not going to send it back, It cost $700+/- 100 to have them put new tritium in a use tube.
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Wrong.  It's $570 only if you want them to rebuild the optic when they replace the tritium.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 9:31:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2017 9:37:46 PM EDT by GS5414]
Originally Posted By nsl:
I can come up with the funds to get either a nice dot, ACOG, or 1-4X.
Never had an ACOG, and it seems sort of neat.
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Let the mission drive equipment, good sir!

Mostly inside 200M, moderate contrast and or moving targets, RDS is the way to go. Highly suggest Aimpoint H2 in Geissele mount, or Aimpoint Pro in Larue mount. Either one advise 2 MOA dot. Still doing more tests on the newer EoTech EXPS-3 series.

Ranges from 1M to greater than 200M, a 1-4 or 1-6 variable powered optic [ETA - With daylight bright illumination] is your answer. Highly suggest buying once and crying once here with a Vortex 1-6 Razor II HD and a Geissele 1.54" mount.

This guidance is for hard use guns/optics. ACOG durability in my experience, seeing thousands of them, is lacking with regard to internal construction. I've mounted dozens of them up to gunner's quadrants and have witnessed erratic tracking, dead clicks, etc. Externally the housings are very strong, and the mounting interfaces troublesome at times.

If you must have an ACOG, highly suggest the TA11 series. The eye relief isn't criminally short like the TA31 series. Use blue loc-tite on underneath screws, torque appropriately, and use a Geissele mount if possible.

Best of luck!

S/F
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 9:41:47 PM EDT
Listen to the guy above me.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 9:45:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Listen to the guy above me.
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 10:21:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
It is a huge improvement over irons.  Optics have changed infantry combat significantly.  I have used the ACOG (31) in combat.  Great optic.  But there is a gap in its capability that is worth mentioning.  I think there are better optics out there now, either the piggy dot red dot or one of the 1-6s.
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:


Seeing that I have been in combat your little jab means nothing. Thanks anyway.

eta: I did my combat with irons and I would have given a lot of money for an optic like the TA33 during my time.
It is a huge improvement over irons.  Optics have changed infantry combat significantly.  I have used the ACOG (31) in combat.  Great optic.  But there is a gap in its capability that is worth mentioning.  I think there are better optics out there now, either the piggy dot red dot or one of the 1-6s.
As an advisor, I tried the piggy back red dot. Smashed two in a couple of weeks in hard use.  Perhaps I was unlucky.  If you are in an environment where the RDS is ready to go it takes abuse.  I will accept the risk of fiddling with a scope to get it to 4x or 6x but if I pick it up and I can't immediately engage at 1x then that's not for me.

I thought about dropping money for yet one more RDS but I've lost faith in the concept.  I also say BAC sounds good but if you do a lot of pistol shooting and focus on the front site, there is a tendency to focus on, not through, the scope and BAC didn't work for me.  YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 7:19:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By CharlieR:




As an advisor, I tried the piggy back red dot. Smashed two in a couple of weeks in hard use.  Perhaps I was unlucky.  If you are in an environment where the RDS is ready to go it takes abuse.  I will accept the risk of fiddling with a scope to get it to 4x or 6x but if I pick it up and I can't immediately engage at 1x then that's not for me.

I thought about dropping money for yet one more RDS but I've lost faith in the concept.  I also say BAC sounds good but if you do a lot of pistol shooting and focus on the front site, there is a tendency to focus on, not through, the scope and BAC didn't work for me.  YMMV.
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BAC worked for me right up until it didn't.  I am not cool enough to rate range time with moving targets at 25-50M and certainly not enough to get enough simunition time where I could have found the problem (or trained through it).  I never used piggy back professionally and I have always been concerned about durability in hard conditions.  I see those fears were justified.  I am not a "shooter" so I don't know if that discounts or reinforces my observations.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 8:23:44 AM EDT
I have come to the conclusion after five pages of this thread that ether:
A, people who own acog's know they are amazing.
B, people who never used them bash on them.
C, people who are too cheap to buy one automatically say they suck because they are too cheap to save for one.
D, people trying to justify buying some other inferior optic.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 10:03:54 AM EDT
I have wanted an ACOG for some time now, but when I get the opportunity to fo I always re-discover that the red-dot is sufficient for my purposes. I've tried LPV's but I find that deer-sized targets are not hard to see out to 300 yards and if you can see it you can hit it with a red-dot.

Keeping up with a running target up close with a scope takes practice, especially if it's moving in and out of cover and leaping or bounding about. In my experience I find that I'll see the target, then try to acquire it in the scope and keep up with it, steady things down to put the reticle on and squeeze. All that takes time, which I supposed could be solved with enough practice and real-world experience. But with a red-dot, the dot is just floating in your field of view, it's like cheating.

But for a rifle or carbine I would use for defense, I would much more prefer a red-dot they are just much more intuitive, there is no having to switch from the non-scoped eye to the scoped eye. Under-high stress situations I would not want to be trying to find my target in a scope or fumbling with zoom or flipping levers or whatever, I expect it to be close enough distances where I'd most likely not use a sight anyway.

But I have no illusions that if I have to use it for defense that the red-dot is the best option for up-close and personal out to 200 or 300 yards. I put scopes on hunting rifles mostly to identify whether whatever it is I'm going to shoot is legal to shoot and I have the time to make it all happen.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 3:08:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 4:46:38 PM EDT
acogs are last year's technology. this keeps getting posted. nobody uses them anymore due to their weight and adaptability (which is to say, none). 4x is manageable but suboptimal. it's also heavy at 1 lb. then you add a red dot for close range. but then, you add irons just in case your battery fails. now it's a 3 lb sight which snags on everything. nice.

or go with a 1-4x. it can work as an iron sight - even if the battery fails, the reticule is visible and will work like irons (but with a clearer view). it's a red dot at 1x with battery. the 4x with red dot makes it an perform EXACTLY like an acog. so it's basically everything an acog can do, but also everything iron sights and a red dot can do, but it's not even 1 lb in weight.

if it's so good, wouldn't gun competitions where timing is critical see widespread use? they can and do. 3 guns are rife with 1-4x or 1-6x for exactly this reason. that's before the price. most acogs are on sale at 1200$. many of the 1-4x scopes are half that price. half price for everything an acog can do and more. but the acog is still the best choice, somehow. ok.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 4:57:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2017 4:58:33 PM EDT by Cincinnatus]
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Originally Posted By pavami:

acogs are last year's technology. this keeps getting posted. nobody uses them anymore due to their weight and adaptability (which is to say, none). 4x is manageable but suboptimal. it's also heavy at 1 lb. then you add a red dot for close range. but then, you add irons just in case your battery fails. now it's a 3 lb sight which snags on everything. nice.

or go with a 1-4x. it can work as an iron sight - even if the battery fails, the reticule is visible and will work like irons (but with a clearer view). it's a red dot at 1x with battery. the 4x with red dot makes it an perform EXACTLY like an acog. so it's basically everything an acog can do, but also everything iron sights and a red dot can do, but it's not even 1 lb in weight.

if it's so good, wouldn't gun competitions where timing is critical see widespread use? they can and do. 3 guns are rife with 1-4x or 1-6x for exactly this reason. that's before the price. most acogs are on sale at 1200$. many of the 1-4x scopes are half that price. half price for everything an acog can do and more. but the acog is still the best choice, somehow. ok.
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Nobody uses ACOGs anymore?
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 5:00:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavami:

acogs are last year's technology. this keeps getting posted. nobody uses them anymore due to their weight and adaptability (which is to say, none). 4x is manageable but suboptimal. it's also heavy at 1 lb. then you add a red dot for close range. but then, you add irons just in case your battery fails. now it's a 3 lb sight which snags on everything. nice.

or go with a 1-4x. it can work as an iron sight - even if the battery fails, the reticule is visible and will work like irons (but with a clearer view). it's a red dot at 1x with battery. the 4x with red dot makes it an perform EXACTLY like an acog. so it's basically everything an acog can do, but also everything iron sights and a red dot can do, but it's not even 1 lb in weight.

if it's so good, wouldn't gun competitions where timing is critical see widespread use? they can and do. 3 guns are rife with 1-4x or 1-6x for exactly this reason. that's before the price. most acogs are on sale at 1200$. many of the 1-4x scopes are half that price. half price for everything an acog can do and more. but the acog is still the best choice, somehow. ok.
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Can you show me some of the good 1-4x30mm+ mount combos that are less than a pound?

I tried the 1-4x vortex PST and it is not even close to equal a RDS when at 1x. It just doesn't have the ability to be fired from the same kinda of awkward positions without regard to head placement.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 5:08:56 PM EDT
I always like playing the "what if" game.
What if I could go back in time to VN and carry anything thats available today in my same situation and AO.
For optics an Aimpoint Comp M4s would be my choice...owned many ACOGs and LPVs and other optic devices.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 5:19:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 03RN:


Can you show me some of the good 1-4x30mm+ mount combos that are less than a pound?

I tried the 1-4x vortex PST and it is not even close to equal a RDS when at 1x. It just doesn't have the ability to be fired from the same kinda of awkward positions without regard to head placement.
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You could do a Leupold VX6 + Aero 30mm for 17.8 oz.  Not bad at all.
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