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Posted: 10/18/2004 5:17:40 PM EST
Opinions
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:18:18 PM EST
Both.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:19:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Both.




+1, then stuff, well, you know.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:19:14 PM EST
Where is the AGNTSA photo?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:19:19 PM EST
9mm for plinking cans and paper

.45 for plinking big bad buys
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:20:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 5:20:27 PM EST by clean_cut]
THERE'S ROOM FOR BOTH CALIBERS, AND MORE, IN THE WORLD.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:20:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 5:21:08 PM EST by 82ndAbn]
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:21:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 5:31:38 PM EST by clean_cut]
(Sigh)
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:24:03 PM EST
To quote my neighbor, the Tactical Commander for the Arizona FBI SWAT Team...


"The bigger the hole, the harder they squirt"

"A 9MM is just a 45 set on stun".
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:26:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By yellow5:
Where is the AGNTSA photo?



Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:26:13 PM EST
The .45 is the King Cong Ding-a-Long of Pistols
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:26:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:26:56 PM EST


"A 9MM is just a 45 set on stun".



*cough*bullshit

The smallest round you can shoot accurately is better than the one you miss with half the time.

However, any serious handgunner buys both. It's tradition.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:29:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Cypher214/9mm.bmp



Please stand downrange and tape this bulleye to your chest while I bust a few 9mm caps...

It's shot placement not caliber...
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:36:15 PM EST


.45 ACP all the way

9mm only if plinking or desperate
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:38:35 PM EST
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:39:45 PM EST
Get Both, then shove them up somebody's pooper and post pics, whilst shouting "DUPE!" Make sure to get in before the lock while figuring out what a post +1 equals.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:39:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 5:44:01 PM EST by Boom_Stick]
When hit by 9mm it tickles at best.

.45 will create a singularity as it passes through your body then sucks you in. Kinda like how the alien at the end of Aliens 4 was sucked out the dime sized hole in the glass.

.45 is nasty and violates all space/time rules.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:40:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Panzerwolf:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Cypher214/9mm.bmp



Please stand downrange and tape this bulleye to your chest while I bust a few 9mm caps...

It's shot placement not caliber...



How did I know that old rebuttal would come up...
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:40:16 PM EST
Once you emptied the first gun take the other one and repeat as necessary...
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:40:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!





Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:40:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:




+1000
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:40:29 PM EST
10mm
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:42:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:


It's shot placement not caliber...


How did I know that old rebuttal would come up...




Uh.... cuz he's right???
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:42:50 PM EST
I think 9mm is good in automatic weapons. But if you are relying on one shot, make it a .45.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:42:52 PM EST
270 or 3006?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:44:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Originally Posted By Panzerwolf:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Cypher214/9mm.bmp



Please stand downrange and tape this bulleye to your chest while I bust a few 9mm caps...

It's shot placement not caliber...



How did I know that old rebuttal would come up...



Yeah, it does matter where or even if you hit your attacker, just as long as you use a big round.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:46:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:


It's shot placement not caliber...


How did I know that old rebuttal would come up...




Uh.... cuz he's right???



I'm talking about the old "stand down there and let me shoot you with it..." response.

That response is used with EVERY caliber argument.

Shot placement doesn't always do the trick... I believe that was the sole reason for the design of the .45 ACP was to be a man-stopper when a man would not stop even with proper shot placement. You can not argue... a bigger bullet leaves a bigger hole and does more physical damage. If I have to leave holes, I want the biggest ones I can reasonably get.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:47:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Cypher214/9mm.bmp


I cant belive this is a real Remington add?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:49:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Cypher214/9mm.bmp


I cant belive this is a real Remington add?



I'm pretty sure it's a photoshop.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:55:08 PM EST

I used to be a confirmed 9mm man. Loved shooting them. Felt comforted that I had 15 rounds in a magazine, all that firepower.

I had a good friend of mine who I constantly argued with about which was better, .45 or 9mm. (he was a confirmed .45 man)

Then one day I was at the local police supply a friend of mine owned.

He had a whole pile of these little dispatches that looked like mini telegrahams.

They were published by the FBI. Each one was a short report on actual shooting incidents.

I sat down and read them all. Must have been a coupe of hundred of them.

A very clear pattern emerged.

People shot by 9mm kept shooting back. Wounding or killing their opponents.

People shot by .45acp, were unable to return fire.

45acp is a good manstopper, 9mm simply is not.

These were real gun fights, not some math on paper about bullet speed etc.

Real world information and experience.

I am now a confirmed .45 man, because I carry weapons to save my life, not just for sporting fun.

To each there own, but you might pay for your decision with your life if your opinion is not based on anything but love for a certain caliber or gun.


Zen

"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:02:02 PM EST
If bigger is better, what do ya'll .45ACP lovers say to a person who says it sucks and a .50AE is better? Hey, bigger is better right?

Just curious.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:05:33 PM EST
They don't make a P7 in .45 (yes, I know they made a couple) so the 9mm has to be the best.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:07:45 PM EST
A member here + neighbor's chow = 15 rds of 9mm JHP = this boy switching to .45 ACp
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:15:09 PM EST
,45 and the .308!! The reason the Army liked the two together were because after the neck was shot out and splitting the .308 can be cut down and the case is guess what?

Bob
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:21:25 PM EST
What a tough issue. I have been leaning toward .45 ACp for a couple years now based on stopping power, but the more I have been reading it's seems like a tough call: more stopping power or more rounds. If you're a good shot then I'd say 9mm, if you can make every shot a lethal one. If not then you definitely want something that's going to seriously mame/immobilize.

I'm a fairly lousy shot with a pistol, so it's really hard to say unless I took some sort of pistol training course to refine my skills. I do get hung up on the idea of having 15+ vs. 7+. That's a huge difference.

9mm is supposed to have less recoil and therefore should allow for tighter groups/better accuracy, though this is probably arguable. When I shoot my Kimber and then switch to my Ruger, I don't really notice all that much of a difference in recoil/stability.

For HD I want something that's going to knock a guy down, so I have my Kimber by my bed. I'm not expecting zombie hordes to break in while I'm asleep. If they do I'm fairly confident I could make it to the heavy guns before things get out of hand. Worse case, I'll throw my wife down the stairs and let them chew on her while I unlock the Bush-Bitch... then it's game on.

For CCW it would be a tough call. Odds are if I need to draw a CCW it's going to be fairly close range, so a need for dead on accuracy at >50m is probably not going to be there. What's the statistic for range when a CCW is used... something like 15ft or less isn't it? Like that guy in the crackhead video... If the driver had been one of the members on this board the range to plug that SOB would have been minimal. In which case, I'd probably want to have something that is going to take off large pieces of their body when the bullet is exiting... so I guess a .45.

If I know I'm going to be going up against numbers I want a sidearm that will offer as much resitance as possible, which means higher mag capacity. Like the guys in Blackhawk Down. More is definitely better.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:25:41 PM EST
Split the difference and get a .40cal
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:30:34 PM EST
I like my .45
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:33:54 PM EST

I don't have the experience to really comment on the relative combat and defensive strengths of 9mm vs .45 based on personal experience, but I'll post what I seem to have gathered up from what other knowledgeable people have said and seems to make sense based on what valid information is out there:

Any modern, effective ammunition in 9mm, 40, and 45, modern firearm, in the hands of a capable operator who practices with them will put the smack down on just about anyone you need it to. There's some fine statistical points to raise between the size of the holes, the recoil, the expense of practice, the penetration, etc... but just about every other major factor (hangun skill and experience, shot placement, type of bullet/ammo, disposition and health of the target, etc) is probably more important than which of those three major and well-proven handgun rounds you pick.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:40:03 PM EST
My $0.02, (which is about all it's worth).

Totally depends on what you want to do. Me, I like to shoot a couple thousand (or more) rounds through the pistol each year. As a secondary back-up plan, the pistol could serve double duty for home defense. So that being the case, 9mm is the obvious choice because ammo is so much cheaper. It's so cheap I don't bother wasting my time reloading and chasing brass. But, despite the cat calls, it's still a full power pistol cartidge - the Army at least seems to think so.

But lots of guys are more focused on having a man-stopper that they can use for double duty as a range fun gun - completely reversed priority than mine. For them, the .45 is the obvious choice.

If you want a sereous manstopper, in my mind the 10mm is the way to go - but it's not very practical (limited gun choices, ammo is pricey and hard to find, too much recoil for many). If your priority is a little bit of both (plinking and home defense) - get the 9mm and shoot the Hell out of it with the cheap ammo.

I hear good things about the .40 cal too.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 6:59:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By geish:
If bigger is better, what do ya'll .45ACP lovers say to a person who says it sucks and a .50AE is better? Hey, bigger is better right?

Just curious.


Pussy.

600 Nitro Express.

CW
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:01:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 7:02:37 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
Depends on the situation...

If you want to drive down the coast in your sports car....

Or.....

.....Jump buses in your Monster Truck!

MT
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:02:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
As a secondary back-up plan, the pistol could serve double duty for home defense. So that being the case, 9mm is the obvious choice because ammo is so much cheaper. It's so cheap I don't bother wasting my time reloading and chasing brass. But, despite the cat calls, it's still a full power pistol cartidge - the Army at least seems to think so.



I don't know about you but I don't mind spending a little more on the good/man-stopper ammo for my HD pistol. I have on mag loaded with quality ammo just for HD. Since I never shoot it, it's not going to waste as [paper] hole puncher ammo. It's just siiting, waiting for some asshole to screw up and pick my house instead of the neigbor's.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:44:53 PM EST

I can't come up with a link offhand, but IIRC there have been some reports published that the 10mm might actually be a bad round for defense purposes for some odd reason, even though it's about the same diameter as a .40 and all. I'm sure someone who knows more about it can follow this up.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 8:03:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By ph713:
I can't come up with a link offhand, but IIRC there have been some reports published that the 10mm might actually be a bad round for defense purposes for some odd reason, even though it's about the same diameter as a .40 and all. I'm sure someone who knows more about it can follow this up.



Its not about the same size as a .40 thats what it is!! A ten mil is a .40S&W mag! The major problem is even though 1&1/2 times as much Vel and such!

When useing JHP in the winter months a JHP fills up with leather,cotton whatever and losses its expansion properties then just becomes a RB round! So the bigger the cal. the bigger the possible damages are!

So the nine mil doesn't expand to be as big as the .40,and the 40 doesn't expand enough to be as big as the .45,and you are back again at square one the .45 acp!!!


Really no expansion needed!~

Even with a .45 acp JHP you still end up with a .45!!!


Bob
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