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Posted: 10/8/2005 9:43:15 PM EDT
Who here uses 147 gr. JHPs?

Anyone besides me?
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:44:50 PM EDT
I shoot them..


Zero 147gr  JHP

Pretty accurate and soft recoiling.

Titegroup and VV340
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:47:07 PM EDT
I use 147gr Ranger SXT (RA9T), but I'm out, so I'm using 147gr. Speer Gold Dots.

Accurate in all 3 of my 9mm Sigs. Very lil recoil, virtually no muzzleflash, and its got great balgel and street results.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:47:54 PM EDT
Winchester Ranger 147gr JHP for carry. I have yet to read a compelling reason to shoot +p, or God forbid, +p+.

Ammoman carries some cheap 147gr from time to time, which makes great training ammo.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:56:29 PM EDT
At this time I have 115grainers in my Glock, but I like 147 just as well.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:00:07 PM EDT
I wanted to start using them, and after all the good stuff I read I was going too.  Then I saw some pretty negative comments in a Masaad Ayoob book that I have about them.  


He is also a big proponent of "street evidence" so to speak.  He is not a Fackler fan.  
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:38:03 PM EDT
I had a very hot 147 Gold Dot load a few years back.

Used it only in a suppressed Sten or M16 (10" + Suppressor).

It seemed to do more damage than the 38spl+p ammo to the targets.

Not sure I would want to drop the hammer on that load in a normal pistol.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:43:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:

Not sure I would want to drop the hammer on that load in a normal pistol.



Why not? I've shot them out of all of my 9mm's. I've put at least 500 through my XD sub-compact.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 11:11:10 PM EDT
i like 124 gold dots better ...
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 11:13:05 PM EDT
yeah I am using 124 golden sabers right now, but I don't really know as much as some people here either so what the hell
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:47:47 AM EDT
I keep 124 grain NATO FMJ's in my car/carry gun.  I figure they'e a little better than the WWBoxes I kept in the mags before.  HP vs FMJ doesn't really matter to me.  I figure a bullet that goes in a then out might bleed ya out just a little quicker.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:51:06 AM EDT
I hate when them bees sting me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 12:54:18 AM EDT
I use them, not my fav thoe
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:13:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Winchester Ranger 147gr JHP for carry. I have yet to read a compelling reason to shoot +p, or God forbid, +p+.

Ammoman carries some cheap 147gr from time to time, which makes great training ammo.



Why would you NOT? You are aware that the original loading, which is still standard in Europe, and is the stadard to which all quality guns are built, is +P, right?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:25:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Why would you NOT? You are aware that the original loading, which is still standard in Europe, and is the stadard to which all quality guns are built, is +P, right?



Sure. Did I ever mention 'wear and tear' or somesuch as a reason not to use +p (or the non-standard '+p+) loadings? No, I did not. 147gr loadings achieve the 12"-16" of expansion in calibrated gelatin without the added flash and muzzle flip that the +p/+p+ loads cause.

Again: There is no demonstrable reason to use +p or '+p+' loadings when the 147gr loading does the job.

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:47:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Why would you NOT? You are aware that the original loading, which is still standard in Europe, and is the stadard to which all quality guns are built, is +P, right?



Sure. Did I ever mention 'wear and tear' or somesuch as a reason not to use +p (or the non-standard '+p+) loadings? No, I did not. 147gr loadings achieve the 12"-16" of expansion in calibrated gelatin without the added flash and muzzle flip that the +p/+p+ loads cause.

Again: There is no demonstrable reason to use +p or '+p+' loadings when the 147gr loading does the job.




Higher percentage the bullet will open?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:54:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dsg2003gt:
i like 124 gold dots better ...



+1
thats what i use
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:55:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Higher percentage the bullet will open?



I would presume that bullet construction has more to do expansion than does velocity. *shrug*
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:40:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 9:45:55 AM EDT by ProfGAB101]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:

Not sure I would want to drop the hammer on that load in a normal pistol.



Why not? I've shot them out of all of my 9mm's. I've put at least 500 through my XD sub-compact.



Bare in mind that this was a +p+++ carbine load. One version was alittle more than half the cartridge case full of BlueDot, then compressed when the bullet was seated.

I also have a 124gr 380acp load for use in a suppressed Makarov or my M11 SMG (using HS6) this load will often burst a case when fired in a gun with an unsupported chamber. (heavy ramping or throating.)

Edit: Once upon a Time I had a friend who owned a ammo company. He had all sorts of ways to test loads safely and prove what works - and what does not. - Sadly he had to move on to other more PC ways of earning a living when biz insurance and product liability climbed sky high.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:43:17 AM EDT
124 gr +p Gold Dots for me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:47:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 9:49:37 AM EDT by ED_P]
I use 147 grain Gold Dots as my carry ammo.

One very strong argument for 147 grain from websites with ballistics tests, is that it seems to expand more reliably through clothing than 115 or 124 grain.  The author of the tests theorized that there was more hollow area in the 147 grain bullets, so eventhough he found cloth plugs in all the test rounds, the 147 grain was less affected by clothing getting into the hollow area, and thus performed as designed better.

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:49:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Why would you NOT? You are aware that the original loading, which is still standard in Europe, and is the stadard to which all quality guns are built, is +P, right?



Sure. Did I ever mention 'wear and tear' or somesuch as a reason not to use +p (or the non-standard '+p+) loadings? No, I did not. 147gr loadings achieve the 12"-16" of expansion in calibrated gelatin without the added flash and muzzle flip that the +p/+p+ loads cause.

Again: There is no demonstrable reason to use +p or '+p+' loadings when the 147gr loading does the job.




Higher percentage the bullet will open?



Maybe 10 years ago.  Bullet design has come a long way.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:43:07 AM EDT
127gr Winchester +P JHP.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:44:27 AM EDT
Military ball ammo for me.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:51:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 10:52:10 AM EDT by Hector_X]

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
I wanted to start using them, and after all the good stuff I read I was going too.  Then I saw some pretty negative comments in a Masaad Ayoob book that I have about them.  



Yea, Ayoob is no fan of the 147:


The faddish adoption of the 147-grain subsonic 9mm took more than a decade of street experience to stamp out.. . .  In good conscience, I cannot recommend any 147-grain subsonic 9mm round for self-defense or police service.


Duty Loads: Today's Best  Guns Magazine,  March, 2002

I'm a fan of the light-and-fast 9mm, but bullet technology has come a long way since those first 147's came out.  Current loads have a lot more penetration and reliable expansion than loads even a few years old.  
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:01:17 AM EDT
I use Speer Gold Dot 147gr. but I realize that there are other comparable loads out there.  
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:14:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hector_X:

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
I wanted to start using them, and after all the good stuff I read I was going too.  Then I saw some pretty negative comments in a Masaad Ayoob book that I have about them.  



Yea, Ayoob is no fan of the 147:


The faddish adoption of the 147-grain subsonic 9mm took more than a decade of street experience to stamp out.. . .  In good conscience, I cannot recommend any 147-grain subsonic 9mm round for self-defense or police service.


Duty Loads: Today's Best  Guns Magazine,  March, 2002

I'm a fan of the light-and-fast 9mm, but bullet technology has come a long way since those first 147's came out.  Current loads have a lot more penetration and reliable expansion than loads even a few years old.  



Ayoob is an idiot.  Who wants to take shooting advice from someone who says you should aim for the pelvis in a shoot to stop scenario?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 1:21:50 PM EDT
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