7 seven year old raped and throat slit… never happen, NO murders at Superdome.

I had suspected much of what we heard never happen.

www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09_26.html#082732

Rumors of deaths greatly exaggerated Widely reported attacks false or unsubstantiated 6 bodies found at Dome; 4 at Convention Center By Brian Thevenot and Gordon Russell Staff writers After five days managing near-riots, medical horrors and unspeakable living conditions inside the Superdome, Louisiana National Guard Col. Thomas Beron prepared to hand over the dead to representatives of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Following days of internationally reported killings, rapes and gang violence inside the Dome, the doctor from FEMA - Beron doesn't remember his name - came prepared for a grisly scene: He brought a refrigerated 18-wheeler and three doctors to process bodies. "I've got a report of 200 bodies in the Dome," Beron recalls the doctor saying. The real total was six, Beron said. Of those, four died of natural causes, one overdosed and another jumped to his death in an apparent suicide, said Beron, who personally oversaw the turning over of bodies from a Dome freezer, where they lay atop melting bags of ice. State health department officials in charge of body recovery put the official death count at the Dome at 10, but Beron said the other four bodies were found in the street near the Dome, not inside it. Both sources said no one had been killed inside. At the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center, just four bodies were recovered, despites reports of corpses piled inside the building. Only one of the dead appeared to have been slain, said health and law enforcement officials. That the nation's front-line emergency management believed the body count would resemble that of a bloody battle in a war is but one of scores of examples of myths about the Dome and the Convention Center treated as fact by evacuees, the media and even some of New Orleans' top officials, including the mayor and police superintendent. As the fog of warlike conditions in Hurricane Katrina's aftermath has cleared, the vast majority of reported atrocities committed by evacuees have turned out to be false, or at least unsupported by any evidence, according to key military, law enforcement, medical and civilian officials in positions to know. "I think 99 percent of it is bulls---," said Sgt. 1st Class Jason Lachney, who played a key role in security and humanitarian work inside the Dome. "Don't get me wrong, bad things happened, but I didn't see any killing and raping and cutting of throats or anything. ... Ninety-nine percent of the people in the Dome were very well-behaved." Dr. Louis Cataldie, the state Health and Human Services Department administrator overseeing the body recovery operation, said his teams were inundated with false reports about the Dome and Convention Center. "We swept both buildings several times, because we kept getting reports of more bodies there," Cataldie said. "But it just wasn't the case." Orleans Parish District Attorney Eddie Jordan said authorities had confirmed only four murders in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina - making it a typical week in a city that anticipated more than 200 homicides this year. Jordan expressed outrage at reports from many national media outlets that suffering flood victims had turned into mobs of unchecked savages. "I had the impression that at least 40 or 50 murders had occurred at the two sites," he said. "It's unfortunate we saw these kinds of stories saying crime had taken place on a massive scale when that wasn't the case. And they (national media outlets) have done nothing to follow up on any of these cases, they just accepted what people (on the street) told them. ... It's not consistent with the highest standards of journalism." As floodwaters forced tens of thousands of evacuees into the Dome and Convention Center, news of unspeakable acts poured out of the nation's media: evacuees firing at helicopters trying to save them; women, children and even babies raped with abandon; people killed for food and water; a 7-year-old raped and killed at the Convention Center. Police, according to their chief, Eddie Compass, found themselves in multiple shootouts inside both shelters, and were forced to race toward muzzle flashes through the dark to disarm the criminals; snipers supposedly fired at doctors and soldiers from downtown high-rises. In interviews with Oprah Winfrey, Compass reported rapes of "babies," and Mayor Ray Nagin spoke of "hundreds of armed gang members" killing and raping people inside the Dome. Unidentified evacuees told of children stepping over so many bodies, "we couldn't count." The picture that emerged was one of the impoverished, masses of flood victims resorting to utter depravity, randomly attacking each other, as well as the police trying to protect them and the rescue workers trying to save them. Nagin told Winfrey the crowd has descended to an "almost animalistic state." Four weeks after the storm, few of the widely reported atrocities have been backed with evidence. The piles of bodies never materialized, and soldiers, police officers and rescue personnel on the front lines say that although anarchy reigned at times and people suffered unimaginable indignities, most of the worst crimes reported at the time never happened. Military, law enforcement and medical workers agree that the flood of evacuees - about 30,000 at the Dome and an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 at the Convention Center - overwhelmed their security personnel. The 400 to 500 soldiers in the Dome could have been easily overrun by increasingly agitated crowds, but that never happened, said Col. James Knotts, a midlevel commander there. Security was nonexistent at the Convention Center, which was never designated as a shelter. Authorities provided no food, water or medical care until troops secured the building the Friday after the storm. While the Convention Center saw plenty of mischief, including massive looting and isolated gunfire, and many inside cowered in fear, the hordes of evacuees for the most part did not resort to violence, as legend has it. "Everything was embellished, everything was exaggerated," said Deputy Police Superintendent Warren Riley. "If one guy said he saw six bodies, then another guy the same six, and another guy saw them - then that became 18." Soldier shot - by himself Inside the Dome, where National Guardsmen performed rigorous security checks before allowing anyone inside, only one shooting has been verified. Even that incident, in which Louisiana Guardsman Chris Watt of the 527th Engineer Battalion was injured, has been widely misreported, said Maj. David Baldwin, who led the team of soldiers who arrested a suspect. Watt was attacked inside one of the Dome's locker rooms, which he entered with another soldier. In the darkness, as he walked through about six inches of water, Watt was attacked with a metal rod, a piece of a cot. But the bullet that penetrated Watt's leg came from his own gun - he accidentally shot himself in the commotion. The attacker never took his gun from him, Baldwin said. New Orleans police investigated the matter fully and sent the suspect to jail in Breaux Bridge, Baldwin said. As for other shootings, Baldwin said, "We actively patrolled 24 hours a day, and nobody heard another shot." Doug Thornton, regional vice president of SMG, which manages the Dome, walked the complex from before the storm until the final evacuation and kept a meticulous journal. In a Sept. 9 interview, he said he heard reports of rapes and killings, but they were unconfirmed and came from evacuees and security officials. "We walked through the facility every day, and we didn't see all this that was being reported," said Thornton, one of about 35 Dome employees who rode out Katrina in the building and lived there in the days after the storm hit. "We never felt threatened. It's hard to determine what's real and what's not real." No victims Inside the Convention Center, the rumors of widespread violence have proved hard to substantiate, as well, though the masses of evacuees endured terrifying and inhumane conditions. Jimmie Fore, vice president of the state authority that runs the Convention Center, stayed in the building with a core group of 35 employees until Sept. 1, the Thursday after Katrina. He was appalled by what he saw. Thugs hotwired 75 forklifts and electric carts and looted food and booze from every room in the building, but he said he never saw any violent crimes committed, and neither did any of his employees. Some, however, did report seeing armed men roaming the building, and Fore said he heard gunshots in the distance on at about six occasions. NOPD Capt. Jeff Winn's 20-member SWAT team responded on about 10 occasions to calls from the Convention Center, usually after reports of shots being fired. The group found people huddled in the fetal position, lying flat on the ground to avoid bullets or running for the exits. They also heard stories of gang rapes, armed robberies and other violent crimes, but no victims ever came forward while his officers were in the building, he said. "What's true and what's not, we don't really know," he said. Rumors of rampant violence at the Convention Center prompted Louisiana National Guard Lt. Col. Jacques Thibodeaux put together a 1,000-man force of soldiers and police in full battle gear to secure the center Sept. 2 at about noon. It took only 20 minutes to take control, and soldiers met no resistance, Thibodeaux said. What the soldiers found - elderly people and infants near death without food, water and medicine; crowds living in filth - shocked them more than anything they'd seen in combat zones overseas. But they found no evidence, witnesses or victims of any killings, rapes or beatings, Thibodeaux said. Another commander at the scene, Lt. Col. John Edwards of the Arkansas National Guard, said the crowd welcomed the soldiers. "It reminded me of the liberation of France in World War II. There were people cheering; one boy even saluted," he said. "We never - never once - encountered any hostility." One widely circulated tale, told to The Times-Picayune by a slew of evacuees and two Arkansas National Guardsmen, held that "30 or 40 bodies" were stored in a Convention Center freezer. But a formal Arkansas Guard review of the matter later found that no soldier had actually seen the corpses, and that the information came from rumors in the food line for military, police and rescue workers in front of Harrah's New Orleans Casino, said Edwards, who conducted the review. It's possible more than four people died at the Convention Center. Fore, the center's vice president, said he saw another body outside the building early in the first week after the storm, covered in a shroud on the pavement along Julia Street, near the back of the Convention Center. It's unclear whether that body ended up in the nearby food service entrance, where the four confirmed bodies were found later. Also, several news organizations reported the body of 91-year-old Booker T. Harris, which sat covered in a chair on Convention Center Boulevard for several days after he died on the back of a truck while being evacuated. Just one of the dead appeared to be the victim of foul play, said Winn, one of few law enforcement officers who spent any time patrolling the Convention Center before it was secured. Winn, who did the final sweep of the building, said one body appeared to have stab wounds, but he could not be sure. Baldwin also said only one of the dead appeared to have been slain, apparently referring to the same body as Winn described. Bob Johannessen, spokesman for the Department of Health and Hospitals, also confirmed just one suspected homicide at the Convention Center, though he said the victim had been shot, not stabbed. A Washington Post report quoted another soldier who concluded that three of the four people appeared to have been beaten to death, including an older woman in a wheelchair. But Spc. Mikel Brooks, an Arkansas Guardsman who said he wheeled the woman's dead body into the food service entrance, said she appeared to have died of natural causes. Brooks went on to say that the woman had expired sitting next to her husband, who shocked him by asking him to bring the wheelchair back. The Post also cited evacuee Tony Cash and three other unnamed sources saying a young boy died of an asthma attack, but multiple officials could not confirm that death. One attack thwarted Reports of dozens of rapes at both facilities - many allegedly involving small children - may forever remain a question mark. Rape is a notoriously underreported crime under ideal circumstances, and tracking down evidence at this point, with evacuees spread all over the country, would be nearly impossible. The same goes for reports of armed robberies at both sites. Numerous people told The Times-Picayune that they had witnessed rapes, in particular attacks on two young girls in the Superdome ladies room and the killing of one of them, but police and military officials said they know nothing of such an incident. Soldiers and police did confirm at least one attempted rape of a child. Riley said a man tried to sexually assault a young girl, but was "beaten up" by civilians and apprehended by police. It was unclear if that incident was the one that gained wide currency among evacuees. Baldwin, the National Guard commander of a special reaction team patrolling the Dome, also said he knew of only one attempted sexual assault of a child - but the details of his story, while similar, differed somewhat from that of Riley. It was unclear last week whether the two men spoke about the same incident. Soldiers apprehended the assailant after a "commotion" in the bathroom exposed him, Baldwin said, but he knew nothing about the man being beaten. Furthermore, in a detail that raises questions about whether officials have full knowledge of any sex crimes, Baldwin said his men turned over one alleged child molester to New Orleans police - only to find him again inside the Dome two days later, reportedly attempting to molest other children. "We ran into the same guy a couple days later," he said. "The crowd came to us and said, 'You better do something with this guy or we're going to do something with him.' ... That kind of re-confirmed (the first allegation), when the crowd came to us saying he was putting his hands on kids." But other accusations that have gained wide currency are more demonstrably false. For instance, no one found the body of a girl - whose age was estimated at anywhere from 7 to 13 - who, according to multiple reports, was raped and killed with a knife to the throat at the Convention Center. Many evacuees at the Convention Center the morning of Sept. 3 treated the story as gospel, and ticked off further atrocities: a baby trampled to death, multiple child rapes. Salvatore Hall, standing on the corner of Julia Street and Convention Center Boulevard that day, just before the evacuation, said, "They raped and killed a 10-year-old in the bathroom." Neither he nor the many people around him who corroborated the killing had seen it themselves. Talk of rape and killing inside the Dome was so pervasive that it prompted a steady stream of evacuees to begin leaving Aug. 31, braving thigh-high foul waters on Poydras Street. Many said they were headed back to homes in flooded neighborhoods. "There's people getting raped and killed in there," said Lisa Washington of Algiers, who had come to the Dome with about 25 relatives and friends. "People are getting diseases. It's like we're in Afghanistan. We're fighting for our lives right now." One of her relatives nodded. "They've had about 14 rapes in there," he said. The official word In many cases, authorities gave credibility to portraits of violence broadcast around the world. Compass told Winfrey on Sept. 6 that "some of the little babies (are) getting raped" in the Dome. Nagin backed it with his own tale of horrors: ''They have people standing out there, have been in that frickin' Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people.'' But both men have since pulled back to a degree. "The information I had at the time, I thought it was credible," Compass said, conceding his earlier statements were false. Asked for the source of the information, Compass said he didn't remember. Nagin frankly acknowledged that he doesn't know the extent of the mayhem that occurred inside the Dome and the Convention Center - and may never. "I'm having a hard time getting a good body count," he said. Compass said rumors had often crippled authorities' response to reported lawlessness, sending badly needed resources to respond to situations that turned out not to exist. He offered his own intensely personal example: The day after the storm, he heard "some civilians" talking about how a band of armed thugs had invaded the Ritz-Carlton hotel and started raping women - including his 24-year-old daughter, who stayed there through the storm. He rushed to the scene only to find that although a group of men had tried to enter the hotel, they weren't armed and were easily turned back by police. Compass, however, promulgated some of the unfounded rumors himself, in interviews in which he characterized himself and his officers as outgunned warriors taking out armed bands of thugs at every turn. "People would be shooting at us, and we couldn't shoot back because of the families," Compass told a reporter from the (Bridgeport) Connecticut Post who interviewed him at the Saints' Monday Night Football game in New York, where he was the guest of NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. "All we could do is rush toward the flash." Compass added that he and his officers succeeded in wrestling 30 weapons from criminals using the follow-the-muzzle-flash technique, the story said. "We got 30 that way," Compass was quoted as saying. Asked about the muzzle-flash story last week, Compass said, "That really happened" to Winn's SWAT team at the Convention Center. But Winn, when asked about alleged shootouts in a separate interview, said his unit saw muzzle flashes and heard gunshots only one time. Despite aggressively frisking a number of suspects, the team recovered no weapons. His unit never found anyone who had been shot. Many soldiers and humanitarian workers now agree that although a number of bad actors committed violent or criminal acts, the evacuees responded well considering the hell they endured. "These people - our people - did nothing wrong," said Sherry Watters of the state Department of Social Services, who was working with the medical unit at the Dome and noted the crowd's mounting frustration. "No human should have to live like that for even a minute." Crowds pitch in As the authorities finally mobilized buses to evacuate the Dome on Sept. 2, many evacuees were nearing the breaking point. Baldwin said soldiers could not have controlled the crowd much longer. They ejected a handful of people attempting to start a riot, screaming at soldiers and pushing crowds to revolt. "We're not prisoners of war - y'all are treating us like evacuees and detainees!" he recalled one of them shouting. But many others sought to quiet such voices. On the deck outside the Dome on Sept. 1, the day before buses arrived, preachers took it upon themselves to lead the agitated crowd in prayer and song. "Everybody needs to help the soldiers," Baldwin recalled one of them saying. "We're all family here." About 15 others joined the medical operation, as people collapsed from heat and exhaustion every few minutes, Baldwin said. "Some of these guys look like thugs, with pants hanging down around their asses," he said. "But they were working their asses off, grabbing litters and running with people to the (New Orleans) Arena" next door, which housed the medical operation. As the Dome cleared out Sept. 3, Beron, the National Guard commander, fashioned a plan to deal with the dead. He knew of the six bodies in the freezer, but expected far more. He and an Ohio National Guard commander sent 450 Ohio troops to search every nook of the Dome, top to bottom. They told them to mark locations of bodies on a map of the Dome, to rope off suspected crime scenes, and leave a chemical light sticks next to each one so they could be retrieved later. "I fully expected to find more bodies, both homicides and natural causes," he said. They found nothing. Staff writers Jeff Duncan and Gwen Filosa contributed to this report.

I don't know, don't want to know, goes and washes hands.

and was stories like this that the press used to whip many into a racist frenzy

gotta love the media

I hope you don't believe that Bull Shit.

If the world knew what the blacks did to the few stranded whites there may be a riot

Quoted: I hope you don't believe that Bull Shit. If the world knew what the blacks did to the few stranded whites there may be a riot

do tell

These are not the droids you're looking for.

Quoted: I hope you don't believe that Bull Shit. If the world knew what the blacks did to the few stranded whites there may be a riot

1984

Quoted: I hope you don't believe that Bull Shit. If the world knew what the blacks did to the few stranded whites there may be a riot

Eh, there would never be a riot in my opinion.  I haven't heard much of what happened to the stranded whites, but to be honest I wouldn't doubt there being some truth to that.

I would like to hear/read what happened, or supposedly happened though.

Do we really need to rebuild this below sea level shit hole?

What are the LV odds on the proposition that all the victims were left inside the Dome?

those are damn lies. My girlfriend's dad was beaten so badly he almost died and was robbed at the convention center by those damn animals.hing

And people wonder why we doubt anything that comes from the press or "the authorities"???

Quoted: those are damn lies. My girlfriend's dad was beaten so badly he almost died and was robbed at the convention center by those damn animals. "move along now, nothing to see here"

not smart enought to have evacuated huh?

Quoted:

It was stated that if the government paid enough attention to the black and poor, then the black and poor won't get angry at society and strike out and hurt others.

You just described the basis for socialism in Europe. That is the execuse they offer every time.

I'm sorry, but I don't and will not believe a single thing that is reported to have or not to have happend in NOLA by any authorities.

There has been an active censorship campaign down there since right after the first barrage of looter video came out.

They are all playing CYA and are completely full of shit.

Quoted: Quoted: those are damn lies. My girlfriend's dad was beaten so badly he almost died and was robbed at the convention center by those damn animals. "move along now, nothing to see here" not smart enought to have evacuated huh?

This should be good.  Two bubbas -- one with an AK and the other with an AR.  

Quoted: I'm sorry, but I don't and will not believe a single thing that is reported to have or not to have happend in NOLA by any authorities. There has been an active censorship campaign down there since right after the first barrage of looter video came out. They are all playing CYA and are completely full of shit.

BS

There has been nothing else shown because there is nothing else to be shown.

If there was no amount of goverment censorship attempts could keep it off the internet.

If internet bloggers cannot find it its a fair bet that it does not exist.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry, but I don't and will not believe a single thing that is reported to have or not to have happend in NOLA by any authorities. There has been an active censorship campaign down there since right after the first barrage of looter video came out. They are all playing CYA and are completely full of shit. BS There has been nothing else shown because there is nothing else to be shown. If there was no amount of goverment censorship attempts could keep it off the internet. If internet bloggers cannot find it its a fair bet that it does not exist.

I understand there is nothing going on down there now... I'm referring to the immediate aftermath.

An example of the Gov't censorship:

They had stopped helicpoter rescue flights one morning "Our helo's are being fired upon"

Later that day "No, we never took any fire, our helo's were re-assigned to other missions."

Uh... what other missions???

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry, but I don't and will not believe a single thing that is reported to have or not to have happend in NOLA by any authorities. There has been an active censorship campaign down there since right after the first barrage of looter video came out. They are all playing CYA and are completely full of shit. BS There has been nothing else shown because there is nothing else to be shown. If there was no amount of goverment censorship attempts could keep it off the internet. If internet bloggers cannot find it its a fair bet that it does not exist. I understand there is nothing going on down there now... I'm referring to the immediate aftermath. An example of the Gov't censorship: They had stopped helicpoter rescue flights one morning "Our helo's are being fired upon" Later that day "No, we never took any fire, our helo's were re-assigned to other missions." Uh... what other missions???

Never heard that.  As far as I know the flights were suspended on the 7th to the Superdome becuse shots were fired at the helicopters from the Hilton.  Never heard anyone back away from the statment and Fox and CNN both broadcasted the statment repeatedly over the day.  Flights were resumed after a ANG MP company swept the hotel.

It is very hard to cover that shit since all the ANG and Army guys come home and post everything they saw and heard on the internet.  Look at how many have posted here.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm sorry, but I don't and will not believe a single thing that is reported to have or not to have happend in NOLA by any authorities. There has been an active censorship campaign down there since right after the first barrage of looter video came out. They are all playing CYA and are completely full of shit. BS There has been nothing else shown because there is nothing else to be shown. If there was no amount of goverment censorship attempts could keep it off the internet. If internet bloggers cannot find it its a fair bet that it does not exist. I understand there is nothing going on down there now... I'm referring to the immediate aftermath. An example of the Gov't censorship: They had stopped helicpoter rescue flights one morning "Our helo's are being fired upon" Later that day "No, we never took any fire, our helo's were re-assigned to other missions." Uh... what other missions??? Never heard that.  As far as I know the flights were suspended on the 7th to the Superdome becuse shots were fired at the helicopters from the Hilton.  Never heard anyone back away from the statment and Fox and CNN both broadcasted the statment repeatedly over the day.  Flights were resumed after a ANG MP company swept the hotel. It is very hard to cover that shit since all the ANG and Army guys come home and post everything they saw and heard on the internet.  Look at how many have posted here.

and doooooowwwn the memory hole we go.

The story was bound to get attention so fuck accuracy or the truth. The really sad part about this is that they publish this garbage and its on page one.  The retraction if there is any is buried between the liposuction ad and the massage parlor ad on the last page.

"don't question our authority. we're from the government and we're here to help!"

i don't doubt the stories of piles of bodies was an exaggeration but no violent crimes??? no intimidation??? this is the start of the .gov whitewash. it didn't happen so we aren't responsible. say it often enough, say it loud enough, and put an official government stamp on it and it'll quickly go away...

business as usual.

Nevermind.

Quoted: Do we really need to rebuild this below sea level shit hole?

Yes, because otherwise the "Hero Refugees" may become your neighbors.

Please save sarcastic comments I'm not posting to argue.....
When you hear about the 19 bodies, shot  and tied together down there, you read it here first. There was a SEAL team that was assigned to the area around the dome and they got them.
Also one of the army guys down there said he was only issued one mag with 30 rounds...he killed four the first night and snuck home ( he was local obviously)to get his .22 (all he had)because he was scared shitless.
It's gonna be great in about a year when everyone hears of all the shit that went on down there.
I workd with alot of LEO and military during this and if what they said was wrote down it would fill a book.

Hell lemme add this after reading that crap:
We just hired a bunch of nurses out of NO. One worked at Methodist and said NOPD took over their 6th floor and went back and forth looying a mall and storing the loot in the hospital.
AND what about CNN pics on tv of the decapitated bodies???

What a bunch of shit.

Quoted: Please save sarcastic comments I'm not posting to argue..... When you hear about the 19 bodies, shot  and tied together down there, you read it here first. There was a SEAL team that was assigned to the area around the dome and they got them. Also one of the army guys down there said he was only issued one mag with 30 rounds...he killed four the first night and snuck home ( he was local obviously)to get his .22 (all he had)because he was scared shitless. It's gonna be great in about a year when everyone hears of all the shit that went on down there. I workd with alot of LEO and military during this and if what they said was wrote down it would fill a book. Hell lemme add this after reading that crap: We just hired a bunch of nurses out of NO. One worked at Methodist and said NOPD took over their 6th floor and went back and forth looying a mall and storing the loot in the hospital. AND what about CNN pics on tv of the decapitated bodies??? What a bunch of shit.

I saw that.  Was it faked as it must have been if the article is true?  

The article is full of crap.

[.gov] Take the blue pill [/.gov]

uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide.


they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there..

no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever.

That's not what a person who spent four days in the Dome told me in one of the shelters.

Quoted: those are damn lies. My girlfriend's dad was beaten so badly he almost died and was robbed at the convention center by those damn animals. "move along now, nothing to see here"

If it wasn't for the photos, I'd believe them .... these same folks also said the police were not looting.  They have as much credibility as Baghdad Bob.  Too many eyewitnesses.  A doctor was interviewed on CNN who saw the bodies, and had no reason to lie.  A reporter took numerous pictures, and CNN showed  the two that could be shown on TV with pixelization.  The British students told the hell they went through, they saw the women being dragged into the back, etc.  When I saw the NO Police Chief come out and bold-face lie about the police not looting, the officials there lost all credibility with me.  Oh, these same folks said that there were no gun confiscations.  I'll believe numerous eyewitnesses over lying politicians and corrupt police chiefs any day.

Quoted: uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide. they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there.. no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever.

And where are those pictures now?

No one had tivo? No one had CNN running to their computer? No one at Ogerish.com was lining up to pay the photographer cash?  We are exepcted to beleve that it was eraced completely from existance?  And that somehow the "Blame George Bush" crowd that includes CNN would not WANT to run such a image as often as they could?

Even on the day people were posting here about those pictures, no one ever answered to oft repeated question- were they killed there or was that where the PD/Fire/Coroner were taking all the victims of the street violence because it was the nearest place that still had refrigeration and was above water...

Quoted: Quoted: uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide. they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there.. no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever. And where are those pictures now? No one had tivo? No one had CNN running to their computer? No one at Ogerish.com was lining up to pay the photographer cash?  We are exepcted to beleve that it was eraced completely from existance?  And that somehow the "Blame George Bush" crowd that includes CNN would not WANT to run such a image as often as they could?

They had the film on the CNN page for about a week, it was called Convention Center Hell.

Quoted: Quoted: uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide. they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there.. no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever. And where are those pictures now? No one had tivo? No one had CNN running to their computer? No one at Ogerish.com was lining up to pay the photographer cash?  We are exepcted to beleve that it was eraced completely from existance?  And that somehow the "Blame George Bush" crowd that includes CNN would not WANT to run such a image as often as they could? Even on the day people were posting here about those pictures, no one ever answered to oft repeated question- were they killed there or was that where the PD/Fire/Coroner were taking all the victims of the street violence because it was the nearest place that still had refrigeration and was above water...

Numerous board members, including myself, saw the film.  Paula Zahn spent about five minutes saying how little children should leave the room before they showed it, when they first aired it.

Anderson Cooper did a followup interview with a doctor who was in the convention center, who saw 40-50 bodies in the back.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: those are damn lies. My girlfriend's dad was beaten so badly he almost died and was robbed at the convention center by those damn animals. "move along now, nothing to see here" not smart enought to have evacuated huh? This should be good.  Two bubbas -- one with an AK and the other with an AR.

Sarge and Clean cuts troll accounts

Quoted: These are not the droids you're looking for.

Your Jedi mind-trick doesn't work on me...........

There sure have been a lot of false Police reports filed claiming rape if none of it happened

www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2460
Witnesses Talk to Counselors
Reports by people who said they witnessed rapes are starting to filter in to rape counselors, said Judy Benitez, executive director of the Louisiana Foundation Against Sexual Assault in Hammond.

The foundation is beginning to compile a database of reports without specifically naming victims but including enough details about incidents in an attempt to rule out duplicates and get a better count, she said. The reports are being taken from victims as well as witnesses, Benitez said, but she did not know how many reports had been gathered by late Wednesday.

Under normal circumstances, Benitez said, the odds of rapes getting reported to police were somewhere between 10 percent and 25 percent of all rapes. Amid the unfathomable chaos of Hurricane Katrina, Benitez said she expects an even lower reporting rate.

"We're getting reports from witnesses," Benitez said. "All these witnesses are upset because they saw things going on and couldn't do anything about them without jeopardizing their own safety."

Other information is coming in to the media as well.

New Orleans singer-songwriter Charmaine Neville, in a Sept. 2 video aired by WAFB-TV in Baton Rouge, La., said she had reported to New Orleans police that "a lot of us women had been raped down there by guys who had come . . . into the neighborhood where we were that were helping us to save people, but other men . . . they came and they started raping women . . . and then they started killing."

The Rev. Toby Nelson of First Presbyterian Church of Hayward in Castro Valley, Calif., told The Union newspaper of Grass Valley, Calif., in a Sept. 20 article that rapes did occur. Nelson was part of a volunteer team that went to the New Orleans Superdome the week after Hurricane Katrina hit.

"There were so many rape victims, and we had to turn (most) of them away because they had life-damaging, but not life-threatening, wounds," Nelson said.

It's important that rapes be reported within the first 72 hours in order to preserve evidence and deal with trauma, but reporting the events later still serves a valuable purpose, said Lorna Martin of the Division of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology at the University of Cape Town in Rondebosch, Western Cape, South Africa.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: those are damn lies. My girlfriend's dad was beaten so badly he almost died and was robbed at the convention center by those damn animals. "move along now, nothing to see here" not smart enought to have evacuated huh? This should be good.  Two bubbas -- one with an AK and the other with an AR.

ROFL!!!


GR

Coverup


There were photos posted of bodies inside the convention center.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide. they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there.. no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever. And where are those pictures now? No one had tivo? No one had CNN running to their computer? No one at Ogerish.com was lining up to pay the photographer cash?  We are exepcted to beleve that it was eraced completely from existance?  And that somehow the "Blame George Bush" crowd that includes CNN would not WANT to run such a image as often as they could? Even on the day people were posting here about those pictures, no one ever answered to oft repeated question- were they killed there or was that where the PD/Fire/Coroner were taking all the victims of the street violence because it was the nearest place that still had refrigeration and was above water... Numerous board members, including myself, saw the film.  Paula Zahn spent about five minutes saying how little children should leave the room before they showed it, when they first aired it. Anderson Cooper did a followup interview with a doctor who was in the convention center, who saw 40-50 bodies in the back.

And the question remains.  Were they killed there?  Or was that just the only place left to bring the bodies.

Given the recent history of the mainstream media misreprsenting video taken in Iraq, one cannot trust that they would give a accurate account of how or why the bodies got to be their.  Or that having created a inaccurate perception that they would admit any error.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide. they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there.. no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever. And where are those pictures now? No one had tivo? No one had CNN running to their computer? No one at Ogerish.com was lining up to pay the photographer cash?  We are exepcted to beleve that it was eraced completely from existance?  And that somehow the "Blame George Bush" crowd that includes CNN would not WANT to run such a image as often as they could? Even on the day people were posting here about those pictures, no one ever answered to oft repeated question- were they killed there or was that where the PD/Fire/Coroner were taking all the victims of the street violence because it was the nearest place that still had refrigeration and was above water... Numerous board members, including myself, saw the film.  Paula Zahn spent about five minutes saying how little children should leave the room before they showed it, when they first aired it. Anderson Cooper did a followup interview with a doctor who was in the convention center, who saw 40-50 bodies in the back. And the question remains.  Were they killed there?  Or was that just the only place left to bring the bodies. Given the recent history of the mainstream media misreprsenting video taken in Iraq, one cannot trust that they would give a accurate account of how or why the bodies got to be their.  Or that having created a inaccurate perception that they would admit any error.

If you saw the bodies, it was pretty clear that they did not die of natural causes - and the blood was pooled alongside them - with no signs of blood trails indicating that they were dragged there.

The "article" comes from...

www.nola.com

That's all I need to know.

Not surprising. As usual I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Typical for officials to downplay this kind of thing to prevent loss of $ to their cities.
Rape is probably one of the most overlooked crimes by city officials in addition to being severely underreported. Tragic. Personally, I find rapists to be the lowest of the low and would rather see them get the death penalty than most murderers.

In the long run it would seem that only those who were there will ever really know the truth.
The best thing that could happen here would be a compilation of stories from credible individuals at ARFCOM who were really there.

Quoted: Quoted: These are not the droids you're looking for. Your Jedi mind-trick doesn't work on me...........

Damn...


...I bet it works on DU

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: uh, I SAW pictures on CNN.  They were kind of fuzzed but it was pretty clear it was a violent death and not a suicide. they are in damage control to try and convince people that new orleans is OK. Actually after all the stuff I saw on TV down there and some of the people i've met that came from there.. no mater how well they rebuilt it, I will NEVER go there.   Ever. And where are those pictures now? No one had tivo? No one had CNN running to their computer? No one at Ogerish.com was lining up to pay the photographer cash?  We are exepcted to beleve that it was eraced completely from existance?  And that somehow the "Blame George Bush" crowd that includes CNN would not WANT to run such a image as often as they could? Even on the day people were posting here about those pictures, no one ever answered to oft repeated question- were they killed there or was that where the PD/Fire/Coroner were taking all the victims of the street violence because it was the nearest place that still had refrigeration and was above water... Numerous board members, including myself, saw the film.  Paula Zahn spent about five minutes saying how little children should leave the room before they showed it, when they first aired it. Anderson Cooper did a followup interview with a doctor who was in the convention center, who saw 40-50 bodies in the back. And the question remains.  Were they killed there?  Or was that just the only place left to bring the bodies. Given the recent history of the mainstream media misreprsenting video taken in Iraq, one cannot trust that they would give a accurate account of how or why the bodies got to be their.  Or that having created a inaccurate perception that they would admit any error. If you saw the bodies, it was pretty clear that they did not die of natural causes - and the blood was pooled alongside them - with no signs of blood trails indicating that they were dragged there.

Why would they be dragged there?  Just because they had a shortage of morgue space doesn't mean they had no streathers or wheelchairs- and were not some of them IN wheel chairs or gurneys in the video?  That they did not die of natural causes is not a surprise with all the looters and all on the street.  But with no embalming being done and no proper body bags they would have drained out where they were left.

Again, did they get footage of a massacre or did they get footage of a body dump- and is it a coverup or did they stop playing the video because they were misrepresnting events and were going to get sued by families of the deceased for disrespecting their dead loved ones and using them for tawdry publicity.

Fox probably does not really know either, all they did was find a bunch of dead people to put on TV

Quoted: The truth is always the first casualty. Propaganda is much much better than the crude and simple stuff done in the 1950's. If there is a story to be told there's a spin to be put on it. I too would only believe member's here first hand reports.

+1

While I am certainly glad that there is no raped 7-year-old in a coffin somewhere, it certainly speaks volumes that such a story was so easy to believe.

But hey, when the gangsta lifestyle is heralded as THE culture, then what can we expect?

I put zero credibility in the words of any New Orleans Spokesperson. I believe the pictures, and the eyewitness testimony of those who have no reason to lie, such as a doctor in the Convention Center and the British tourists.  The New Orleans spokespeople DO HAVE a reason to lie.

Quoted: Please save sarcastic comments I'm not posting to argue..... When you hear about the 19 bodies, shot  and tied together down there, you read it here first. There was a SEAL team that was assigned to the area around the dome and they got them. Also one of the army guys down there said he was only issued one mag with 30 rounds...he killed four the first night and snuck home ( he was local obviously)to get his .22 (all he had)because he was scared shitless. It's gonna be great in about a year when everyone hears of all the shit that went on down there. I workd with alot of LEO and military during this and if what they said was wrote down it would fill a book. Hell lemme add this after reading that crap: We just hired a bunch of nurses out of NO. One worked at Methodist and said NOPD took over their 6th floor and went back and forth looying a mall and storing the loot in the hospital. AND what about CNN pics on tv of the decapitated bodies??? What a bunch of shit.

Check your tin foil hat, i think it's receptors are calibrated too high.

I'm sorry, but i'm gonna have to call on a lot of the "stories" and "first hand accounts" that i've been reading online... which honestly sound more like survivalist fantasies come to life. I was so caught up in the fear and frenzy that I actually revived my old hobby of firearms to build a M4gery "just in case".

But then, I read a article in which the author brought back the historical examples of after natural disasters, the media would spread malicious racist rumours. Back in the 1800s, Hungarians were the evil ethnic minority of choice, and after a disaster on the north eastern coast, there were widespread reports of rapes, and of people cutting fingers off of dead bodies to get rings. Never happened. Then in the 20s there was a disaster in the south, and there were reports of blacks raping and pillaging, and cutting off fingers of dead bodies to get rings. never happened.

I hoped that all the rumours i've heard about gangs, looting, raping, and wild west like shenanigans happening in NO were true, because I didn't want to think I got duped hardcore... but after realizing that all the "first hand accounts" (there are litterally dozens) NEVER had pictures, of even them getting ready and leaving, or of the scenery, I realized that the potential for bullshit was pretty damn high.

Meh.

At least I got a "assault weapon" out of the whole deal, SWEET!