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Posted: 6/14/2009 9:06:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:07:30 AM EST by capnrob97]
I didn't know a jetliner could go vertical...

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:07:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:17:33 AM EST by Chokey]
wut?

ETA: I'd like to see the end of that video
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:15:53 AM EST
Holy shit dudess!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:17:09 AM EST
he was hauling ass too!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:17:26 AM EST
A test pilot once rolled a 747....

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:18:46 AM EST
FAIL! I want to see the results.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:19:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:22:14 AM EST by bytor94]
Energy management.

Light load, lots of thrust and speed, no problem.

The master of energy management maneuvering would have to be Bob Hoover.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:20:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



That was Tex Johnson. He almost lost his job because of that little stunt, but it generated a lot of sales so he was not fired.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:22:10 AM EST
There's no way he's gaining speed as he goes vertical, you can tell by the video.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:22:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By bytor94:
Energy management.

Light load, lots of thrust and speed, no problem.


That's what I was thinking... Somewhere on the internetz there's video of a guy doing rolls in his two engine airplane with the motors off. Then to show off, he pours a cup of coffee.

Amazing to watch, but I guess if you know what you're doing it's no problem.
~Dg84

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:23:09 AM EST
probably wasnt vertical. from the camera angle any steep ascent is going to appear greater than it is.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:24:23 AM EST
Looks like the noise abatement procedure out of SNA
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:26:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....


BzzzzzTTTT!!! WRONG!!

It was a Boeing 707, the Dash 80 that was rolled by Tex Johnson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws

The story after the 707 "DASH 80" Barrel roll...
The plane lands at Boeing field and Tex gets out and starts to walk away from the plane.
A Boeing official runs over to Tex and tells him Mr. Allen wants to see him now.
Mr. Allen is the president of Boeing.

So Tex heads off across the street to the Boeing Exec offices and into Mr. Allens office.

Tex walks in.
Mr Allen from behind his desk says "How are Tex...Hows the family"?

Tex answers the boss.

Mr Allen the says "I hear you rolled the plane today, Tex".
Tex says quietly....."Yes sir I did".

Mr Allen answers..."Don't do it again.......Bye Tex..say hello to the wife..".

About the Aircraft...
The Boeing 367-80 was the name of the "prototype" of both the 707/720 commercial transport/military transport/military tanker/military communications plane and the 717/739 (KC-135 etc) military transport/tanker. It was called the "Dash-80" and although 707 was eventually written on the tail (and it was registered N70700), it wasn't really a 707 so much as a pre-aircraft, a basic-built demonstrator.

-The 707 and KC-135 look similar but beside different lenghts, have different upper fuselage lobe dimensions (ditto for the Dash-80) and different alloys.

-The Dash-80 was flown in August 2003 to Washingon, where it has been permanently retired to the big new annex of the Smithsonian's museum of air and space. Here it resides with Concorde and many other important aircraft.

-Tex Johnston did the barrel roll and even if test pilots back then were different, the company was stunned by it and whatever the exact conversation was like, he apparently came close to losing his job. But the roll seems to have impressed the military and to have gotten Boeing the large contract for the KC-135.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:27:10 AM EST
That looks like fun!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:27:29 AM EST
Nothing like verticle…

about 45 degrees or so, easy enough in a light airliner…


THIS is FAR more impressive…




Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:28:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:29:28 AM EST by USMCBEANS]
Edit: Full Tex Johnson story above, so I will remove my cliff notes version.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:30:09 AM EST
I'd pay extra to be along for that ride!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:31:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2_of_5:
Looks like the noise abatement procedure out of SNA
That's what it looked like to me too.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:31:42 AM EST
Theres a video on youtube of a B-52 doing a climb out so steep fuel starts spilling out of the over flows. Truely impressive...
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:33:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:34:26 AM EST by Cyclic240B]
Originally Posted By NineLivez:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



That was Tex Johnson. He almost lost his job because of that little stunt, but it generated a lot of sales so he was not fired.
Originally Posted By NineLivez:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



That was Tex Johnson. He almost lost his job because of that little stunt, but it generated a lot of sales so he was not fired.


I do believe that was Boeing's original "-80" 707 prototype. ETA: as posted before I submitted, so here is the video..





Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:34:22 AM EST
I'm surprised that in the testing phase airlines aren't rolled and flown upside down, etc? what good are they if they can't do anything other than a 10 degree bank or what not?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:34:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:35:55 AM EST by innocent_bystander]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bp2V-rEnsY

Cathay Pacific pilot fired for 'Top Gun' tactic

Posted: February 26, 2008, 1:36 PM by Scott Deveau
Transportation

A Cathay Pacific Airways pilot has been fired after he performed an unauthorized "fly-by" with the airline's chairman and 60 other VIPs onboard, according to a report in Flight International.


The incident took place on Jan. 30 shortly after Cathay took possession of their new 777-300ER from Boeing in Everett, Washington.

After takeoff, Captain Ian Wilkinson brought the aircraft around again to the airfield and made a low-level fly past with the plane's wheels up - a maneuver that requires approval from the flight control tower, which the pilot failed to secure in advance.


The Top Gun-style fly-by, which apparently brought the plane within 8.5 metres of the runway, was caught in these photos and on this video.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:36:12 AM EST



YYYYYyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHHhhaaaaaaaa­aaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww­wwwwwwww!

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:38:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



No, it was a 707. The 707 has some enormously strong wings and was one of the few (only??) airliners for which the wings were designed to handle the stress of inverted flight.

Which is one of the reasons the KC versions are still flying and in many ways are arguably better for the mission than the modern replacements.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:39:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:46:54 AM EST by realwar]
Heres the video its in the middle somewhere...

B-52 near vertical climb out Its at the 8.00 minute mark.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:39:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
Originally Posted By bytor94:
Energy management.

Light load, lots of thrust and speed, no problem.


That's what I was thinking... Somewhere on the internetz there's video of a guy doing rolls in his two engine airplane with the motors off. Then to show off, he pours a cup of coffee.

Amazing to watch, but I guess if you know what you're doing it's no problem.
~Dg84



Bob Hoover as mentioned above. Doing so on another nations license from the co-pilots seat as the FAA had grounded him.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:49:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84:
Originally Posted By bytor94:
Energy management.

Light load, lots of thrust and speed, no problem.


That's what I was thinking... Somewhere on the internetz there's video of a guy doing rolls in his two engine airplane with the motors off. Then to show off, he pours a cup of coffee.

Amazing to watch, but I guess if you know what you're doing it's no problem.
~Dg84



Bob Hoover as mentioned above. Doing so on another nations license from the co-pilots seat as the FAA had grounded him.




Yup, that's the guys!

There's bold pilots, and there's old pilots.... But, there ain't to many old, bold pilots.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:50:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:55:48 AM EST by desertmoon]
Originally Posted By NineLivez:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



That was Tex Johnson. He almost lost his job because of that little stunt, but it generated a lot of sales so he was not fired.


I know that it was most likely in the parameters.......but I have always wanted to know..."can it done?"

Now I know!

That is AWESOME!!!


ETA: I read the rest of the thread...... it was "just" a 707....
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:57:02 AM EST
Tag
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:59:25 AM EST
that didn't look vertical, more like 45 degrees
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:01:24 AM EST
Gives an idea of how fast those planes hit the towers...

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:13:15 AM EST
757 are race horses(imo) Depending on what type of engine they have on them, (GE, PW or RR) the PW normally has 40,000lbs of thrust for each engine. Unless its de-rated like Deltas 757 which are 37,500lbs of thrust for each engine. Thats alot of power for a narrow boby A/C
I loved flying and working on those. They are my favorite
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:26:51 AM EST
So it can roll. But can it loop?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:29:56 AM EST
There's not a single plane in the world that's certified safe to fly in commercial passenger service by the FAA that can't safely perform a Chandelle, a roll maintaining 1 G positive through the entire maneuver.


A 707 can do it. A 747 can do it. A 737 can do it, a 777 can do it, and the 787 will be able to do it. Every Airbus can do it, from the A300 to the A380.

It's not as demanding a maneuver as you'd think. And the plane doesn't even have to be prepped for inverted operations as long as you hold positive Gs on the airframe by
applying suitable back pressure on the controls during the maneuver.

I'm quite sure that a lot of airliners have made landings that were more stressful on the airframe than a basic 1 G Chandelle.

Rumors persist about a retired Eastern Airlines pilot who, on his last flight prior to retirement, got to hand pick his entire crew for that flight, and he picked people who
know how to keep their mouths shut. The story has it that at some point during this flight, a regular passenger flight, he rolled the plane. Why not? It was a safe maneuver
and all they could do was ground him. Since this was his final flight prior to retirement anyway....seize the opportunity! I truly can't remember if it was a 727 or a 757 that he
rolled, but I think it was one of the two.

CJ
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:32:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 10:33:53 AM EST by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By NineLivez:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



That was Tex Johnson. He almost lost his job because of that little stunt, but it generated a lot of sales so he was not fired.


That was a 707 prototype. I believe it was called the Dash-80.

Nevermind, already pointed out.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:34:53 AM EST
I've been on test flights of 737-300/500 and DC-10-10's...

when they don't have a load of passengers, cargo and all that fuel, they can fly like you wouldn't believe. I haven't gone vertical, but I've seen an awesome ROC
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:39:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 10:42:00 AM EST by SnoopisTDI]
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



No, it was a 707. The 707 has some enormously strong wings and was one of the few (only??) airliners for which the wings were designed to handle the stress of inverted flight.

Which is one of the reasons the KC versions are still flying and in many ways are arguably better for the mission than the modern replacements.


Done properly, you shouldn't need "strong wings" do a roll like that. The load factor should stay pretty close to one. But it does look like a good display of control authority.

ETA: And for whoever asked if it could do a loop, technically a barrel roll is a combination of two simultaneous maneuvers - a loop and a roll. (assuming Tex did a barrel roll)
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:42:48 AM EST
FWIW- An airliner, or any other airplane, does not "know" it's vertical, or even upside down. The 757 has excellent power to weight ratio, and that one was hauling ass at the start of the pullup. It looked to be at about 85 degree pitch toward the end of the clip. You would get annoying warnings, but as long as you fly smooth and watch the AOA, there is nothing inherently dangerous or difficult about that particular maneuver. There is not an airplane made, that couldn't do it, at least for a short time.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:48:10 AM EST
Not long after Eastern Airlines obtained the 757, pilots were ordered to lessen the degree of climb after take off because it was scaring the shit out of the passengers.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:49:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By lostangel:
So it can roll. But can it loop?



It could do a loop, but the pullout would put some stress on the airframe. I'm not aware of anyone looping an airliner.

If you made sure you were very slow at the top, then pull to idle, and throw out the speed brakes flaps and landing gear, you would have a fair chance of pulling out before the wings and tail separated. I would try it for 3 million. Let me know if you have any billionaire friends who want to make a cool video.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:50:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Barney_Calhoun:
Not long after Eastern Airlines obtained the 757, pilots were ordered to lessen the degree of climb after take off because it was scaring the shit out of the passengers.


on some of the longer planes (I don't recall if it was on the 757 as well) but on the 767 they were having problems with over rotation at takeoff, doing damage to the tail.. there is a retractable skid to help lessen any damage.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:59:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By vito113:
Nothing like verticle…

about 45 degrees or so, easy enough in a light airliner…


THIS is FAR more impressive…






Here's a better quality video of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBvfAvixDyw&feature=related
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:04:48 AM EST
That first vid in the OP was of a New Zealand Airforce jet.
They do that at all the airshows we have here, it's pretty much the only jet action the RNZAF has to offer, I’m lucky I got to this country before they killed the combat jets and was able to see a few shows with the A4’s, those little jets were very impressive.

Earlier this year, in March I think we were very lucky and we had a USAF C17 at the show, WOW, talk about impressive, the Aussies also brought in two F18 Hornets, was nice seeing / hearing a high performance jet again.

But that 757 is very good, the RNZAF don’t have too many cool toys, but they sure as hell know how to play with the ones they do have, that’s for sure, and yes, near the end of the climb out that 757 does look VERY near vertical in real life too.

If anyone is interested I’ll post some of the air show pics when I get home from work.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:10:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By realwar:
Heres the video its in the middle somewhere...

B-52 near vertical climb out Its at the 8.00 minute mark.

The pilot that plowed that thing along with his crew into the ground did some crazy shit.

I've seen some other videos where they were goofing off out in the desert someplace doing high speed passes and nearly missing rock outcroppings and other shit.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:54:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By capnrob97:
I didn't know a jetliner could go vertical...[div]


The 757 is ridiculously overpowered. The 767 and 747 feature the same powerplant as the 757.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:19:50 PM EST
Very few planes have more thrust than weight. But nearly any plane with a Vne much higher than Vmc can go vertical. For a spell.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:28:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By vito113:
Nothing like verticle…

about 45 degrees or so, easy enough in a light airliner…


THIS is FAR more impressive…



No, no it wasn't.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:09:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....


BzzzzzTTTT!!! WRONG!!

It was a Boeing 707, the Dash 80 that was rolled by Tex Johnson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws

The story after the 707 "DASH 80" Barrel roll...
The plane lands at Boeing field and Tex gets out and starts to walk away from the plane.
A Boeing official runs over to Tex and tells him Mr. Allen wants to see him now.
Mr. Allen is the president of Boeing.

So Tex heads off across the street to the Boeing Exec offices and into Mr. Allens office.

Tex walks in.
Mr Allen from behind his desk says "How are Tex...Hows the family"?

Tex answers the boss.

Mr Allen the says "I hear you rolled the plane today, Tex".
Tex says quietly....."Yes sir I did".

Mr Allen answers..."Don't do it again.......Bye Tex..say hello to the wife..".

About the Aircraft...
The Boeing 367-80 was the name of the "prototype" of both the 707/720 commercial transport/military transport/military tanker/military communications plane and the 717/739 (KC-135 etc) military transport/tanker. It was called the "Dash-80" and although 707 was eventually written on the tail (and it was registered N70700), it wasn't really a 707 so much as a pre-aircraft, a basic-built demonstrator.

-The 707 and KC-135 look similar but beside different lenghts, have different upper fuselage lobe dimensions (ditto for the Dash-80) and different alloys.

-The Dash-80 was flown in August 2003 to Washingon, where it has been permanently retired to the big new annex of the Smithsonian's museum of air and space. Here it resides with Concorde and many other important aircraft.

-Tex Johnston did the barrel roll and even if test pilots back then were different, the company was stunned by it and whatever the exact conversation was like, he apparently came close to losing his job. But the roll seems to have impressed the military and to have gotten Boeing the large contract for the KC-135.


I believe the only reason the Dash 80 was named as such was as an act of counter-industrial espionage to make it seem as though the aircraft was just a revision of an earlier design rather than a whole new model, and a revolutionary one at that.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:16:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By SnoopisTDI:
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner:
Originally Posted By pv74:
A test pilot once rolled a 747....



No, it was a 707. The 707 has some enormously strong wings and was one of the few (only??) airliners for which the wings were designed to handle the stress of inverted flight.

Which is one of the reasons the KC versions are still flying and in many ways are arguably better for the mission than the modern replacements.


Done properly, you shouldn't need "strong wings" do a roll like that. The load factor should stay pretty close to one. But it does look like a good display of control authority.

ETA: And for whoever asked if it could do a loop, technically a barrel roll is a combination of two simultaneous maneuvers - a loop and a roll. (assuming Tex did a barrel roll)


My reply wasn't well written. I didn't mean the plane could do a Chandelle because of the wings stressed for inverted flight. I meant it is among the reasons that they are still flying after all these years. The wings on a 707 are enormously strong.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:19:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Barney_Calhoun:
Not long after Eastern Airlines obtained the 757, pilots were ordered to lessen the degree of climb after take off because it was scaring the shit out of the passengers.


I flew into/out of Vail/Beaver Creek CO in a 757 while on a ski trip 15 or so years ago. I was glad for that steep climb out!!!

They limited the number of passengers on the airplane. Maybe half the seats or less.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 5:46:02 PM EST
Should have maintained that climb and done a hammerhead at the end.
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