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Posted: 9/11/2005 9:27:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 9:29:29 PM EDT by Epsilon]
I just watched a show about 9-11 and they just mentioned something ive never heard before!

As the planes were being grounded and canceled several middle eastern men fled a flight leaving behind their luggage. Inside the luggage was Al-Queda literature, training manuals, and fake IDs. Since they used the fake IDs they never could identify who the men were.

has anybody else heard of this?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:35:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Epsilon:
I just watched a show about 9-11 and they just mentioned something ive never heard before!

As the planes were being grounded and canceled several middle eastern men fled a flight leaving behind their luggage. Inside the luggage was Al-Queda literature, training manuals, and fake IDs. Since they used the fake IDs they never could identify who the men were.

has anybody else heard of this?



Did they say what flight they were supposed to be on?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:43:25 PM EDT
I've heard that even more teams than that were suspected. But due to the immediate grounding of flights (thank you Mr. President) more takeovers didn't happen. Al Qaeda didn't expect them all to succeed, so they had backups.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:43:27 PM EDT
I overheard that on the TV too, when Rick was watching... I thought I had heard wrong, but I guess not.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:49:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 9:50:16 PM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... One thing I finally grasped about listening to these shows this weekend - The Islamic Jihadist is a patient warrior and won't strike us until he is absolutely assured maximum effect. And strike again he will, even if it takes another 100 years

... Unfortunately American sheeple have very short memories and a relatively low tolerance for effective and brutal retaliation
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:52:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Unfortunately American sheeple have very short memories and a relatively low tolerance for effective and brutal retaliation



It's true
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:58:49 PM EDT
I think Israel has the right idea regarding flights......
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:44:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... One thing I finally grasped about listening to these shows this weekend - The Islamic Jihadist is a patient warrior and won't strike us until he is absolutely assured maximum effect. And strike again he will, even if it takes another 100 years

That's BS. The islamic jihadist is an dumb-ass that would get his butt whipped by an American kid with an XBox on his first week out of boot camp. The best way to describe an islamic jihadist is "target practice" for turret gunners.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:51:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... One thing I finally grasped about listening to these shows this weekend - The Islamic Jihadist is a patient warrior and won't strike us until he is absolutely assured maximum effect. And strike again he will, even if it takes another 100 years

That's BS. The islamic jihadist is an dumb-ass that would get his butt whipped by an American kid with an XBox on his first week out of boot camp. The best way to describe an islamic jihadist is "target practice" for turret gunners.



I actually think the truth is somewhere in between. The Islamic Jihadist who decides to go toe-to-toe with US Military is a dumb-ass. However, for us not to believe that they have very cunning members of cells that are actively planning to carry out an attack and waiting for the right time to do it would be a mistake
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:54:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 4:58:39 AM EDT by weptek911]

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... One thing I finally grasped about listening to these shows this weekend - The Islamic Jihadist is a patient warrior and won't strike us until he is absolutely assured maximum effect. And strike again he will, even if it takes another 100 years

That's BS. The islamic jihadist is an dumb-ass that would get his butt whipped by an American kid with an XBox on his first week out of boot camp. The best way to describe an islamic jihadist is "target practice" for turret gunners.



It's okay to not like them. But don't underestimate them. Thousands of good men and women are dead because of Islamic fascists that you dismiss so easily. Worst of all, they use our own decency against us. I agree, in a stand up fight we have the advantage. But these bastards hide behind innocent civilians and demand their civil rights while conspiring with our own left-wing to take ours.

I think the unsung hero of this whole WOT was former AG John Ashcroft. ( He was pro 2A also) He locked up a lot of Jihadis on immigration & other administrative violations and prevented the follow-on attacks.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:54:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:04:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... One thing I finally grasped about listening to these shows this weekend - The Islamic Jihadist is a patient warrior and won't strike us until he is absolutely assured maximum effect. And strike again he will, even if it takes another 100 years

That's BS. The islamic jihadist is an dumb-ass that would get his butt whipped by an American kid with an XBox on his first week out of boot camp. The best way to describe an islamic jihadist is "target practice" for turret gunners.



I actually think the truth is somewhere in between. The Islamic Jihadist who decides to go toe-to-toe with US Military is a dumb-ass. However, for us not to believe that they have very cunning members of cells that are actively planning to carry out an attack and waiting for the right time to do it would be a mistake



You know we need a propaganda machine in place.
The ones who plan these suicide attacks know there is no reward of paradise and 72 virgins waiting for the dead jihadist to arrive in Heaven.

The would never strap a bomb to their cowardly ass and kill themselves.
We need to dispel the myth and then see how many are willing to die for allah.

The planers are in effect taking advantage of the disenfranchised and the ignorance of these idiots.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:21:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:23:26 AM EDT by KlubMarcus]
You guys are giving the islamic jihadists too much credit. They're morons. The only reason they even got to us was because Libtards in the USA screwed up! Nowadays the Libtards aren't running the show and they haven't even got an attack off the ground. What we need to do is put more pressure on the mosques. We need to threaten to shut them down for terror ties and start auditing the Muslim owned businesses for monetary support of terrorists. Then we need DHS to mount a few raids to find illegals. They're going to start singing just to save the legit parts of their community.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:29:21 AM EDT
they are an organization of humans, just like us. they have morons. they have electrical engineers, trained here. they have structural engineers. they have buffoons.

pointing to the guy who thought he could evade night vision devices by stripping naked and running for the gate, and saying they are all that dumb, is dumb.

pointing to the guy who is an organizational genius, patient as Job, and saying they are all that smart is, dumb.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:40:09 AM EDT by migradog]

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
You guys are giving the islamic jihadists too much credit. They're morons. The only reason they even got to us was because Libtards in the USA screwed up! Nowadays the Libtards aren't running the show and they haven't even got an attack off the ground. What we need to do is put more pressure on the mosques. We need to threaten to shut them down for terror ties and start auditing the Muslim owned businesses for monetary support of terrorists. Then we need DHS to mount a few raids to find illegals. They're going to start singing just to save the legit parts of their community.




Yep... They're pretty fucking stupid alright!!

The crashed planes into the WTC and Pentagon
They blew up embassies in Tanzania and Nigeria
Attacked the USS Cole and Killed Navy Servicemen

And in doing so changed the course of American history.

Sounds like the work of a bunch of idiots.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:40:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
pointing to the guy who is an organizational genius, patient as Job, and saying they are all that smart is, dumb.

Where are their organizational geniuses? Hiding in a cave patiently while the US Military destroys an entire generation of military-age jihadists in Trashcanistan and ex-Saddumb's Iraq? What can they do except set off a few surplus bombs in Turd World countries and release some videos on the 'Net like a bunch of high school kids.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:40:55 AM EDT
"Brutal retaliation" is my middle name.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:42:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
pointing to the guy who is an organizational genius, patient as Job, and saying they are all that smart is, dumb.

Where are their organizational geniuses? Hiding in a cave patiently while the US Military destroys an entire generation of military-age jihadists in Trashcanistan and ex-Saddumb's Iraq? What can they do except set off a few surplus bombs in Turd World countries and release some videos on the 'Net like a bunch of high school kids.



They showed what they could do when they put 3 jets into 3 building withing an hour of each other.

That took organization.

Are you saying nothing like that could happen again?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:46:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
Yep... They're pretty fucking stupid alright!!

Yes, they are.

The crashed planes into the WTC and Pentagon
Boy scouts with knives could pull off that operation.

They blew up embassies in Tanzania and Nigeria
Things blow up all the time in Tanzania and Nigeria even without terrorists.

Attacked the USS Cole and Killed Navy Servicemen
That's because the commanding officers were a dumb-asses who didn't post sentries.

And in doing so changed the course of American history.
We're over there changing THEIR history right now.

Sounds like the work of a bunch of idiots.
I agree completely! Never before have so much US military personnel and equipment been in a position to take over the Middle East (a de facto checkmate). We're living the USSR's wet dream of seizing the oilfields.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:49:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By migradog:
They showed what they could do when they put 3 jets into 3 building withing an hour of each other. That took organization. Are you saying nothing like that could happen again?

Well we can land 3 jets within seconds on the same runway without using knives, now that's organization! Sounds like you're trying to put words into my mouth because your argument is weak.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:53:58 AM EDT
Not the first I've heard about it, although the first I've heard of them leaving their luggage.

I remember stories of flights that never took off having ME-looking men in the cockpit dressed as company aviators and being treated to the VIP treatment. Doesn't sound too plausible, though...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:13:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:14:28 AM EDT by TheCynic]
Ladies and Gentleman, welcome to ameteur hour here
on ARFCOM. Out first act is KlubMarcus:


Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
You guys are giving the islamic jihadists too much credit. They're morons.The only reason they even got to us was because Libtards in the USA screwed up! Nowadays the Libtards aren't running the show and they haven't even got an attack off the ground. What we need to do is put more pressure on the mosques. We need to threaten to shut them down for terror ties and start auditing the Muslim owned businesses for monetary support of terrorists. Then we need DHS to mount a few raids to find illegals. They're going to start singing just to save the legit parts of their community.



Judges?

Big dick swinging internet bravado: 6/10
Inappropriate use of emoticons: 9/10
References to civil rights violations: 6/10
Use to the word "Libtard": 10/10
Complete lack of understanding of geopolitical
realities: 10/10

Awesome score, congratulations! You can now be
the cool kid at school tomorrow!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:31:18 AM EDT
Yes, the first thing they teach in the military academies is "Underestimate the enemy!"

What's the worst that could happen?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:51:04 AM EDT
Armchair general reporting in...
What does it really take to "conquer" America?
I have to ask how much threat the jihadists really constitute if their sole activity in the United States over the past 4 years has been the destruction of 3 (admittedly large and important) buildings and 3 jumbo jets,and a death toll,that while terrible, pales next to our annual highway deaths from drunk driving (17k dead in the US in 2003 alone)? As a way of comparison, we bombed whole German cities flat consistently for over 3 years, and their war machine,organization and way of life continued. Their government and will were only crushed at the end of that time,when most of their cities lay in rubble,their industry had been driven underground,and the Russian and American armies were knocking on their doorstep.
In the last 4 years, we've conquered two unfriendly muslim countries and changed their governments.
The jihadists don't have the luxury of time. The jihadists cannot patiently wait for the right opportunity to strike. If they are doing so as some sort of mystical strategic plot to wait and catch us off of our guard, then they are pissing away the one wartime commodity of which they appear to have little supply: time. If not striking and sitting on your ass plotting your next "big move" is a strategic activity,then it's certainly the activity I'd like to have my enemy comitting. Unless they get real nuclear weapons, America has very little to fear given the past pace of their actions. Note that I'm not saying that we shouldn't be prepared as we're doing now. It's just that too much credit is being given to an organization that is presently unable to accomplish it's goal of conquering America's will.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:00:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By migradog:
Yep... They're pretty fucking stupid alright!!

Yes, they are.

The crashed planes into the WTC and Pentagon
Boy scouts with knives could pull off that operation.

They blew up embassies in Tanzania and Nigeria
Things blow up all the time in Tanzania and Nigeria even without terrorists.

Attacked the USS Cole and Killed Navy Servicemen
That's because the commanding officers were a dumb-asses who didn't post sentries.

And in doing so changed the course of American history.
We're over there changing THEIR history right now.
i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.baghdad/story.long.statue.us.flag.a.jpg

Sounds like the work of a bunch of idiots.
I agree completely! Never before have so much US military personnel and equipment been in a position to take over the Middle East (a de facto checkmate). We're living the USSR's wet dream of seizing the oilfields.



False. If you can't recognize the patient cunning that it took to seek out, find, and effectively exploit the series of weaknesses that made 9/11 possible, we are in for additional trouble from them because you are underestimating them.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:51:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Awesome score, congratulations! You can now be the cool kid at school tomorrow!

Instead of posting your schoolboy rant, why don't you post your own ideas?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:54:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
False. If you can't recognize the patient cunning that it took to seek out, find, and effectively exploit the series of weaknesses that made 9/11 possible, we are in for additional trouble from them because you are underestimating them.

Wrong, if you can't figure out that Boy Scouts would be one of the last suspects to pull off that kind of attack shows that you cannot fathom such cunning.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:54:37 AM EDT
Why would people check luggage with terrorrist literature in it if they planned on crashing the plane?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:01:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:


False. If you can't recognize the patient cunning that it took to seek out, find, and effectively exploit the series of weaknesses that made 9/11 possible, we are in for additional trouble from them because you are underestimating them.

Or they just could have read a novel by Tom Clancy...

Its more a measure of the lack of security in a free society than any genius of the hijackers.

I will agree that it is a lot more dangerous to underestimate someone than to be overly respectful of their capabilities.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:06:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
The jihadists don't have the luxury of time. The jihadists cannot patiently wait for the right opportunity to strike. If they are doing so as some sort of mystical strategic plot to wait and catch us off of our guard, then they are pissing away the one wartime commodity of which they appear to have little supply: time.

Exactly! The muslim jihadists are suffering terrible losses in military-age males, who should be getting married and having kids, instead of being crushed by the US War Machine. Contrast that with the US Military, where it's normal to serve (even go career) and have a family even through several active duty tours. Then there's private military contracting to boot. Those stupid jihadists can only throw themselves at the meat grinder daily or wait for a few years between attacks while the USA thunders forward.

We should step up US Military operations around the world in order to attract more suicidal jihadists to the fight so we can kill them. That will leave the "moderate" muslims behind with a whole lot of single women. Did the US War Machine stop when the kamikaze were taking out fully manned ships by the dozen? Of course not! We pressed the attack until the stinkin' Japs only had children and old farts left over to man their weaponry. Then we Nuked them, twice. Screw those jihadists, they're less than nothing because they intentionally kill the population they draw their ranks from.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:10:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
The jihadists don't have the luxury of time. The jihadists cannot patiently wait for the right opportunity to strike. If they are doing so as some sort of mystical strategic plot to wait and catch us off of our guard, then they are pissing away the one wartime commodity of which they appear to have little supply: time.

Exactly! The muslim jihadists are suffering terrible losses in military-age males, who should be getting married and having kids, instead of being crushed by the US War Machine. Contrast that with the US Military, where it's normal to serve (even go career) and have a family even through several active duty tours. Then there's private military contracting to boot. Those stupid jihadists can only throw themselves at the meat grinder daily or wait for a few years between attacks while the USA thunders forward.

We should step up US Military operations around the world in order to attract more suicidal jihadists to the fight so we can kill them. That will leave the "moderate" muslims behind with a whole lot of single women. Did the US War Machine stop when the kamikaze were taking out fully manned ships by the dozen? Of course not! We pressed the attack until the stinkin' Japs only had children and old farts left over to man their weaponry. Then we Nuked them, twice. Screw those jihadists, they're less than nothing because they intentionally kill the population they draw their ranks from.



Please, they can outbreed us without trying. In 50 years when the majority of Americans are collecting social security their mean age will be lower than ours is now. They will line up to kill us by the millions. Thinking we can win this by bleeding our ememy is beyond stupid.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:18:31 AM EDT
they probably did NOT have a 5th team on 9/11. They required pilots for that, and the ones associated with Atta were accounted for. There was some talk of a "second wave" some months later, with perhaps Mousaoui ("20th hijacker") being a part of that. I suspect the preemptive dentention of man suspects put an end to that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:25:48 AM EDT
They might be stupid, but they are patient and they hold a grudge for a long time. Thousands of years, in fact.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:30:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
You guys are giving the islamic jihadists too much credit. They're morons. The only reason they even got to us was because Libtards in the USA screwed up! Nowadays the Libtards aren't running the show and they haven't even got an attack off the ground.



So, we only watch the ones in our backyard? What about the ones in London? Are you saying we somehow have this incredible intelligence "net" over the US that somehow allows us to keep tabs on all of the terrorist in the US and beyond that we don't care?

Your statement seems to have very little substance. Blame the libs all you want. This whole country was wearing "Complacency" brand shades and everyone was blind to the idea that we could actually be attacked on US soil. The only thing that has changed is the .gov 3-letter agencies are still jumpy... regular people have are already assuming that it could never happene again. The party in charge of the country has very little to do with it. They hate all Americans. Not just liberals or just conservatives. Everyone. You can almost 100% guarantee there will be another attack. They just have to plan a little better now.

If you think they can't pull off another bombing you haven't been watching the news for the last 3+ years. They could just as easily start resorting to roadside IED's and car bombs to get their point across. The problem right now is the agencies are always expecting the next attack to be at some large gathering with lots of press and lots of potential casualties like 9/11. Nobody expects to just have a car blow up on the US interstate.

The possibilities are endless as to who, what, where, and when they'll attack. The best thing we can do is exactly what we would never do... and because of that they have an upper hand. Whether it's too PC or simply being to civlized is a point of arguement...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:39:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... One thing I finally grasped about listening to these shows this weekend - The Islamic Jihadist is a patient warrior and won't strike us until he is absolutely assured maximum effect. And strike again he will, even if it takes another 100 years

... Unfortunately American sheeple have very short memories and a relatively low tolerance for effective and brutal retaliation



"Warrior" just seems like the wrong term to use for these fucks. "Chicken shit cowards" seems more appropriate.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:40:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:


False. If you can't recognize the patient cunning that it took to seek out, find, and effectively exploit the series of weaknesses that made 9/11 possible, we are in for additional trouble from them because you are underestimating them.

Or they just could have read a novel by Tom Clancy...

Its more a measure of the lack of security in a free society than any genius of the hijackers.

I will agree that it is a lot more dangerous to underestimate someone than to be overly respectful of their capabilities.




Clancy's novel involved a crazy Japanese CAPTAIN, authorized to be on that plane, acting alone, in a single plane.

Maybe that was the genesis of the idea, but it's a pretty far hike from there to obtaining flight training, getting at least four teams on fully fueled, lightly populated flights simultaneously, figuring out how to get weapons on board, then hitting those targets with the airliners.

Certainly terrorists capitalize on our freedoms, but this was a monumental capitalization.

I'm not saying these guys are on par with James Bond's adversaries, but 9/11 was no fluke by lucky dummies.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:40:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:
You know we need a propaganda machine in place.



We've got one. It's called CNN, Fox, etcetc. all the way down to the screamingly obvious VOA.

I spent the first week or so of the war in France visiting our dead from a different war. The only english broadcasts we could get were the BBC.

Things looked so much rosier once I got home and flipped on the TV. There was a lot less substance, but it was more comforting by far

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:19:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
The jihadists don't have the luxury of time. The jihadists cannot patiently wait for the right opportunity to strike. If they are doing so as some sort of mystical strategic plot to wait and catch us off of our guard, then they are pissing away the one wartime commodity of which they appear to have little supply: time.

Exactly! The muslim jihadists are suffering terrible losses in military-age males, who should be getting married and having kids, instead of being crushed by the US War Machine. Contrast that with the US Military, where it's normal to serve (even go career) and have a family even through several active duty tours. Then there's private military contracting to boot. Those stupid jihadists can only throw themselves at the meat grinder daily or wait for a few years between attacks while the USA thunders forward.

We should step up US Military operations around the world in order to attract more suicidal jihadists to the fight so we can kill them. That will leave the "moderate" muslims behind with a whole lot of single women. Did the US War Machine stop when the kamikaze were taking out fully manned ships by the dozen? Of course not! We pressed the attack until the stinkin' Japs only had children and old farts left over to man their weaponry. Then we Nuked them, twice. Screw those jihadists, they're less than nothing because they intentionally kill the population they draw their ranks from.



Please, they can outbreed us without trying. In 50 years when the majority of Americans are collecting social security their mean age will be lower than ours is now. They will line up to kill us by the millions. Thinking we can win this by bleeding our ememy is beyond stupid.



+1.

You guys know that there are over ONE BILLION muslims, right?

In no way do I think that they are all the ones we need to worry about, but even at 1%, which seems awful low to me, that's a ten million man army. TEN MILLION.

Add to that the simple fact that many of our foreign policy moves enrage another wave of recruits to the dark side, we've got our hands FULL.
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