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Posted: 11/2/2009 10:45:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:46:06 AM EST by DavidC]
At least not as an adult, Since I first started in the industry I work in ~30 years ago, at the request of a friend who knew I had a large amount of knowledge about that would be perfect for a relative's company I've never actually looked for a job. I've been actively recruited multiple times and taken 3 jobs, which got me through 23 years. I've been freelance for the last 8 years and doing OK.

As I move towards retirement I realize that there are a number of things I would like to do to our place in the mountains that would take some serious money to do right (at least $400K over 5 years or so). I don't want to get loans or touch assets, so I'm considering getting a full-time job, rather than freelancing. This is primarily because my business, while not being really bad, has been very up and down over the last four years (think +- $150K) with the slow years being sufficient to pay all the bills and live comfortably.

A couple of friends in the business have asked me for my resume (which I had to write; all I had was a CV) but I realize I've never been in the actual position of looking for a job and don't have a good feel for handling the entire process that I've read about, from interviews to hiring.

Does anyone know of any good resources for information on this topic ?

I know that it sounds very strange. Most of the folks I've talked to have suggested reading materials and web sites that are focused on getting back into the workforce, but the difference is that I've never been out of the workforce, just never really had a job interview where I was the supplicant. My previous roles have been at the C level or as a very senior technical executive, with the most difficult "interview" I've been through being me explaining to a VC BOD that they needed me more than I wanted to work with them. Not the usual job interview.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:51:18 AM EST
Do you have a network of associates and colleagues who know about your experience and skill sets?

All the advice I have is that you limit your CV to a single page, especially if you send it out electronically. A lot of these paperless resume systems at companies are not set up to take multiple pages.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:06:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
Do you have a network of associates and colleagues who know about your experience and skill sets?

All the advice I have is that you limit your CV to a single page, especially if you send it out electronically. A lot of these paperless resume systems at companies are not set up to take multiple pages.


I have a lot of industry contacts and I have a fairly well known name in the business technology community. I'm willing to travel, but not relocate, though I am on the Northeast corridor, which gives me a lot of flexability in commuting.

The whole resume/CV thing seems to be quite a minefield. I've been looking at friend's resumes for the last week or so and most of them make me say "They got a job based on this???" I sent some samples off to the folks at a couple of high-end job websites and got back responses that were simply attempting to sell me the resume writing service that would "push me over the top." Seems like quite the racket.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:11:34 AM EST
After that many years, you should have enough name recognition to be able to skip the resume/CV nonsense.

Find someone who knows your work that 'll hire you as a contractor - or just stay freelance. Sounds like freelance has been good thus far, on average.

<––freelancer.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:17:31 AM EST
I thought this was about Joe Biden
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:19:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 11:20:23 AM EST by DavidC]
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
After that many years, you should have enough name recognition to be able to skip the resume/CV nonsense.

Find someone who knows your work that 'll hire you as a contractor - or just stay freelance. Sounds like freelance has been good thus far, on average.

<––freelancer.


Freelancing has been good, but the problem is twofold.

The first is that people aren't willing to part with what I charge (even discounted rates). It's gotten so bad that I'll ahve people contact me and offer me my standard rate for a 1 hour interactive web seminar ($1K) and then immediately ask if I can recommend someone who works much cheaper for all of the collateral projects they want to do around the same topics, effectively saying they want to put my name on the project without giving me the work. And they plead ignorance when I point that out.

The second thing is that even long term clients have gone from paying NET 10 to as bad as NET 90, and I still have to chase them around to get a check cut. At one point in 2008 my liquid assests were almost completely gone and I kept sufficient funds set aside to maintain myself for 4 months (6 months now). I eventually got paid, but it is a huge PITA to have to chase clients for money, especially when you know they have the potential for significant future work and you have to walk a fine line between getting paid and pissing them off.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:25:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 11:26:37 AM EST by JosieWales]
Originally Posted By DavidC:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
After that many years, you should have enough name recognition to be able to skip the resume/CV nonsense.

Find someone who knows your work that 'll hire you as a contractor - or just stay freelance. Sounds like freelance has been good thus far, on average.

<––freelancer.


Freelancing has been good, but the problem is twofold.

The first is that people aren't willing to part with what I charge (even discounted rates). It's gotten so bad that I'll ahve people contact me and offer me my standard rate for a 1 hour interactive web seminar ($1K) and then immediately ask if I can recommend someone who works much cheaper for all of the collateral projects they want to do around the same topics, effectively saying they want to put my name on the project without giving me the work. And they plead ignorance when I point that out.

The second thing is that even long term clients have gone from paying NET 10 to as bad as NET 90, and I still have to chase them around to get a check cut. At one point in 2008 my liquid assests were almost completely gone and I kept sufficient funds set aside to maintain myself for 4 months (6 months now). I eventually got paid, but it is a huge PITA to have to chase clients for money, especially when you know they have the potential for significant future work and you have to walk a fine line between getting paid and pissing them off.



Wow! Seems you really overpriced yourself out of a job.
Have you thought about lowering your prices??
Things are a changing afterall...

ETA: Seems like you made a Killing for quite some time!!

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:28:35 AM EST
Maybe you could charge less and do more work?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:33:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By raven:

All the advice I have is that you limit your CV to a single page, especially if you send it out electronically. A lot of these paperless resume systems at companies are not set up to take multiple pages.


I respectfully disagree. You've been successful for 20+ years. I would not look at you if your CV/Resume looked like every other twenty-something's. This advice only applies to young, inexperienced job seekers. I need a full page to list awards...as I am sure you do too. Be proud of what you have done...that being said, have it professionally done.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:36:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Maybe you could charge less and do more work?


There is a bottom line for what I'm willing to work for, and I do offer a discounted rate for work that doesn't get my name on it. I give long term clients discounted prices. But, if I discount my rates too much I end up earning the same amount of money but do more work to get there. It also doesn't impact the NET 90 issue.

There isn't any point in lowering my rate down to what a newcomer to the business charges.


I'm not the most expensive guy on the block, by a long shot.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:40:54 AM EST
With all respect to the OP –– WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!

And I'm sure it's just me, (because I've been working all day and I'm tired) but I've read this thread three times and still don't have a clue as to what you actually produce/accomplish to earn a living.

My advice is for you to find a professional resume writer and work with them.

And when you get an interview, just look 'em in the eye and tell the truth.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:44:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 11:48:03 AM EST by DavidC]
Originally Posted By Coltman77:
With all respect to the OP –– WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!

And I'm sure it's just me, (because I've been working all day and I'm tired) but I've read this thread three times and still don't have a clue as to what you actually produce/accomplish to earn a living.

My advice is for you to find a professional resume writer and work with them.

And when you get an interview, just look 'em in the eye and tell the truth.

Good luck.


I'm not sure what I do for a living is at all remotely applicable to the conversation. I assure you that I have been in the real world for a long time; I just didn't job or career hop, and have made a name for myself in my field.

And if you really care, I'm a very talented, and at this point, very senior IT geek with excellent business skills. I've written a dozen or so books and thousands of magazine articles, as well as running medium to large business groups in the technical publishing and software development businesses.

And I started in the trenches,like most IT geeks.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:01:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC:
Originally Posted By Coltman77:
With all respect to the OP –– WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!

And I'm sure it's just me, (because I've been working all day and I'm tired) but I've read this thread three times and still don't have a clue as to what you actually produce/accomplish to earn a living.

My advice is for you to find a professional resume writer and work with them.

And when you get an interview, just look 'em in the eye and tell the truth.

Good luck.


I'm not sure what I do for a living is at all remotely applicable to the conversation. I assure you that I have been in the real world for a long time; I just didn't job or career hop, and have made a name for myself in my field.

And if you really care, I'm a very talented, and at this point, very senior IT geek with excellent business skills. I've written a dozen or so books and thousands of magazine articles, as well as running medium to large business groups in the technical publishing and software development businesses.

And I started in the trenches,like most IT geeks.



What about teaching at the university level? Decent pay. Decent hours. Summers off if you want to go and do what you want.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:13:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC:
Originally Posted By Coltman77:
With all respect to the OP –– WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!

And I'm sure it's just me, (because I've been working all day and I'm tired) but I've read this thread three times and still don't have a clue as to what you actually produce/accomplish to earn a living.

My advice is for you to find a professional resume writer and work with them.

And when you get an interview, just look 'em in the eye and tell the truth.

Good luck.


I'm not sure what I do for a living is at all remotely applicable to the conversation. I assure you that I have been in the real world for a long time; I just didn't job or career hop, and have made a name for myself in my field.

And if you really care, I'm a very talented, and at this point, very senior IT geek with excellent business skills. I've written a dozen or so books and thousands of magazine articles, as well as running medium to large business groups in the technical publishing and software development businesses.

And I started in the trenches,like most IT geeks.



Let me give you my best advice.

Never NEVER post a question like this on arfcom, especially in General Discussion! Those that can give good advise have been chased off by the chairborne crew, and most that "give advice" are clowning to pass time!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:34:08 PM EST
You will need at least a one page synopsis of your career for any recruiter or bus dev guy to pass out to clients. You will likely need to tailor it to the given opportunity unless you're an academic.

Everyone is being tightfisted right now and the guys who lose out are on the top or the bottom.

IW keeps bandying about the Web 2.0 concept and it plays well to the CTO crowd, but I just don't see a lot of budgets loosening up for that kind of work.

$1000 expenditure doesn't seem to be the kind of price anyone other than a mom & pop would care about if it was customer focused. Don't know what to tell you except sell better.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:06:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By DavidC:
I'm not sure what I do for a living is at all remotely applicable to the conversation.


I'm pretty sure it is relevant, David. You said:

"... This is primarily because my business, while not being really bad, has been very up and down over the last four years (think +- $150K) with the slow years being sufficient to pay all the bills and live comfortably.

"A couple of friends in the business have asked me for my resume (which I had to write; all I had was a CV) but I realize I've never been in the actual position of looking for a job and don't have a good feel for handling the entire process that I've read about, from interviews to hiring.

"Does anyone know of any good resources for information on this topic ?

"I know that it sounds very strange. Most of the folks I've talked to have suggested reading materials and web sites that are focused on getting back into the workforce, but the difference is that I've never been out of the workforce, just never really had a job interview where I was the supplicant. My previous roles have been at the C level or as a very senior technical executive, with the most difficult 'interview' I've been through being me explaining to a VC BOD that they needed me more than I wanted to work with them. Not the usual job interview."


What you did/do dictates how you approach both your resume and interview(s). My son, a professional editor and former resume writer by trade, would be the first to agree with me. (As a matter of fact, he's privy to this exchange and would like to offer his services to you free-of-charge, Dave. (Hope you don't mind me calling you "Dave.").)


I assure you that I have been in the real world for a long time; I just didn't job or career hop, and have made a name for myself in my field.


I gotcha, D. I didn't mean to bust your balls, and I'm sorry if I was harsh. As your OP read –– what with the $400k talk, even if over the course of some years –– I must confess: at first glance, at least, you struck me as an incredibly well-to-do type who'd stumbled into success and hadn't earned his stripes as many of the rest of us have (i.e., through countless interviews, many jobs, etc.).

I honestly see I erred –– and you have my apologies. While I myself would've failed to mention some things you did, that's my Southern modesty talking (I know the cost of living/property's HUGE in California).


And if you really care, I'm a very talented, and at this point, very senior IT geek with excellent business skills. I've written a dozen or so books and thousands of magazine articles, as well as running medium to large business groups in the technical publishing and software development businesses.

And I started in the trenches,like most IT geeks.


I"m sure you did.

I'm sorry I was quick to judge. I know that my boy and I didn't have an easy time finding a career; while I'd like to think we're both talented in our respective fields (me, salesman; Sean, writer/editor), the tides of fate have often ebbed on us both.

Regardless, as I said, my son would be more than happy to take a look at your resume. While I, as his dad, am certainly partial to my son's well-being, money and so on *LOL*, I really do recommend Sean for perfecting your resume, David.

Best,
Bill
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:43:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Maybe you could charge less and do more work?


There is a bottom line for what I'm willing to work for, and I do offer a discounted rate for work that doesn't get my name on it. I give long term clients discounted prices. But, if I discount my rates too much I end up earning the same amount of money but do more work to get there. It also doesn't impact the NET 90 issue.

There isn't any point in lowering my rate down to what a newcomer to the business charges.


I'm not the most expensive guy on the block, by a long shot.


I know but if this were an exercise in selling widgets, you could do 1 of 2 things. You could sell the widgets at a high price and only have to sell a few of them. Or you could sell them cheaper and sell more of them.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:18:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By DavidC:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Maybe you could charge less and do more work?


There is a bottom line for what I'm willing to work for, and I do offer a discounted rate for work that doesn't get my name on it. I give long term clients discounted prices. But, if I discount my rates too much I end up earning the same amount of money but do more work to get there. It also doesn't impact the NET 90 issue.

There isn't any point in lowering my rate down to what a newcomer to the business charges.


I'm not the most expensive guy on the block, by a long shot.


I know but if this were an exercise in selling widgets, you could do 1 of 2 things. You could sell the widgets at a high price and only have to sell a few of them. Or you could sell them cheaper and sell more of them.


The difference is all I have to sell is my time; there are no economies of scale. This limits the number of widgets that can be produced. If I can sell 50 widgets at $10, or 5 widgets at $100, all I've done is devalue the individual widget.

I realize its not that simple, but there are a lot of issues involved that make it impractical, in the long term, to lower my rates below what they currently are.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:32:20 AM EST
I thought this was going to be a tread about my ex-wife.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:36:25 AM EST
www.dice.com
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:41:54 AM EST
forget the word resume... portfolio sounds more appropriate at your level.
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