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Posted: 9/2/2016 7:06:01 PM EDT

I shot this over a month ago. 100yds sitting at a bench unsupported. 40grain Winchester varmintX. bone stock RRA NM4. I'm happy!
to me 3 rounds can be good if you are honest with yourself. 5 round groups are even better! 10 might be overkill?



 
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:08:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Pretty good.

For the question I think 5 is the minimum for ok telling. 3 isn't much of a group IMO.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:09:07 PM EDT
[#2]
10.






In Molon we trust.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:09:23 PM EDT
[#3]
5 for proof, 10 for practice. Aim small, miss small.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:09:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:10:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10.



In Molon we trust.
View Quote



AYE

ETA: Molon (and others) Make a very good case for 10 shot groups.  That said, I often shoot 5 shot groups to conserve ammo and give me an idea of how the Rifle and ammo combo is performing. I also have a different standard for different rifles.

My Long range AR, I expect repetitive accuracy for extended periods, it's purpose  which I hope it is never called for, is to kill a lot of enemy combatants at long range. It has to be on and stay on, hot or cold, 1 round or 100.

My Ruger M-77 in 7 mag, on the other hand , with it's long whippy barrel, is meant to make a first round kill on game animals,  and if I screw up or something goes sideways, may be called on to make a couple follow up shots. In 40 years of big game hunting, I've yet to encounter an opportunity to get three aimed shots off at a game animal in range and exposed.

So if that rifle puts three shots into an inch or so, I'm happy, and not overly concerned if the groups open up when the barrel heats up.

So, it's subjective, at least for me, depending on the rifles intended use.


Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:11:44 PM EDT
[#6]
3
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:11:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Very dependent on caliber and firearm.

High speed light barreled guns heat up quick and a 10 shot two minute group isn't going to tell you shit.

An ultralight hunting rifle may only be meant to fire 3-5 rounds in a string.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:12:04 PM EDT
[#8]
I do five shot groups because I am poor. If I were not poor I would do ten shot groups.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:14:00 PM EDT
[#9]
3 round groups are for sighting in.



5-10 round groups tell more about accuracy.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:14:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I do five shot groups because I am poor. If I were not poor I would do ten shot groups.
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But the first shot is thw only one that really matters.

3 shot groups for the win

after three youll have more error due to heat and shooter fatigue
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:16:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
3 round groups are for sighting in.

5-10 round groups tell more about accuracy.
View Quote


Only if you shoot a whole lot of them.

Or just shoot once and call it a 'zero group.'
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:19:33 PM EDT
[#12]
All 3...as in start at 3 per to get a rough idea of,load, then close in on load with 5 per, and then use 10 per for the final fine tune...
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:23:40 PM EDT
[#13]
This guy says 10

Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:24:51 PM EDT
[#14]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
But the first shot is thw only one that really matters.





3 shot groups for the win





after three youll have more error due to heat and shooter fatigue
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:


I do five shot groups because I am poor. If I were not poor I would do ten shot groups.



But the first shot is thw only one that really matters.





3 shot groups for the win





after three youll have more error due to heat and shooter fatigue

are you serious?



you have a tank, did you miss BRM?





 
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:29:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10.



In Molon we trust.
View Quote



This. 10 rounds tell a mich better and more complete story. 3 shots is a joke.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:30:17 PM EDT
[#16]
5 shot groups for load workups. 10 shot groups for muzzle velocity data and actual estimates of load precision once the load is tuned. Three shot groups once I've got a tuned load and I want to verify zero.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:32:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Very dependent on caliber and firearm.

High speed light barreled guns heat up quick and a 10 shot two minute group isn't going to tell you shit.

An ultralight hunting rifle may only be meant to fire 3-5 rounds in a string.
View Quote


Yes, but then let it cool and shoot again.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:37:25 PM EDT
[#18]
3 round groups are seriously lagging in the polls, so I'll wait until the LaRue owners show up.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:41:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10.



In Molon we trust.
View Quote



This, he isn't making money on this...
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:43:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:44:51 PM EDT
[#21]
I would expect a group to fall in a two dimensional Gaussian distribution, assuming there isn't something causing the shots to string (inconsistent barrel pressure, POI change due to heating, etc).

As such 68% of shots should fall within 1 standard deviation (SD). Which is to say about 7 out of ten shots will fall within 1 SD and the other three won't. If you fire a three shot group there is a good chance you will get a nice tight group that isn't representative.

If you fire 10 shots the results should be reasonably representative. The 3 "fliers" are just what you would expect to fall outside of 1 SD.

Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:46:11 PM EDT
[#22]
11 shots
Count the closest ten.



Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:57:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 7:58:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10.



In Molon we trust.
View Quote





This
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:04:24 PM EDT
[#25]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


3 round groups are seriously lagging in the polls, so I'll wait until the LaRue owners show up.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote
whenever a thread doesn't go the way some people want it to they start bickering to get the thread locked. lets not have any of that in this thread please.



 
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:08:42 PM EDT
[#26]
The more the better.

But eventually there will be no paper left.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:20:00 PM EDT
[#27]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This, he isn't making money on this...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

10.
In Molon we trust.







This, he isn't making money on this...
that's right he isn't making money. his reports are data driven not internet tripe.



 
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:23:44 PM EDT
[#28]
If you can't tell in three shots, you suck.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:25:20 PM EDT
[#29]
I do all my load work up with 5 rounds. I don't enjoy shooting groups, but I've done some over 10 just to see.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:27:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:28:21 PM EDT
[#31]
5x5....... if u want a statistical average.... anything less is just sighting the gun in...
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:30:46 PM EDT
[#32]
I can shoot a lot of good three round groups, I can't shoot a lot of good five round groups.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:31:49 PM EDT
[#33]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If you can't tell in three shots, you suck.
View Quote

educate yourself!



Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:32:29 PM EDT
[#34]
5 rounds is my number. 10 is better but overkill imho.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:36:37 PM EDT
[#35]
3 to brag



5 to confirm zero




10 to prove accuracy of weapon and shooter.






Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:40:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
whenever a thread doesn't go the way some people want it to they start bickering to get the thread locked. lets not have any of that in this thread please.
 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
3 round groups are seriously lagging in the polls, so I'll wait until the LaRue owners show up.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
whenever a thread doesn't go the way some people want it to they start bickering to get the thread locked. lets not have any of that in this thread please.
 

Damnit, there you are, instigating, AGAIN.  





Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:40:59 PM EDT
[#37]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This all sounds scientific (and no offense to the poster), but until one has learned how to call their shots, then one is kidding themselves.





What is "calling shots"?  It means being able to say where a particular bullet landed on the target.  Folks accomplished at doing so can call their shots such as "left, high, 8-ring", or "low, right 7-ring".





Trained people can do this, and it's not hard.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:


I would expect a group to fall in a two dimensional Gaussian distribution, assuming there isn't something causing the shots to string (inconsistent barrel pressure, POI change due to heating, etc).





As such 68% of shots should fall within 1 standard deviation (SD). Which is to say about 7 out of ten shots will fall within 1 SD and the other three won't. If you fire a three shot group there is a good chance you will get a nice tight group that isn't representative.





If you fire 10 shots the results should be reasonably representative. The 3 "fliers" are just what you would expect to fall outside of 1 SD.











This all sounds scientific (and no offense to the poster), but until one has learned how to call their shots, then one is kidding themselves.





What is "calling shots"?  It means being able to say where a particular bullet landed on the target.  Folks accomplished at doing so can call their shots such as "left, high, 8-ring", or "low, right 7-ring".





Trained people can do this, and it's not hard.
you cant 'call shots' on inaccurate or inconsistent rifles or loads.

 










 
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:42:31 PM EDT
[#38]
3-rounds lies to you more often than it tells you the truth. (43-57)
5-rounds tells you the truth more often than it lies. (61-39)
10-rounds gets you to the 85% confidence level
100 rounds gets you to the 95% confidence level.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:45:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Statistics. What is statistics?
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:48:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:51:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:52:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
3 to brag

5 to confirm zero


10 to prove accuracy of weapon and shooter.


View Quote

Couldn't have said it better.

In before Molon's .4 MOA three-shot Wolf group.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:54:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10.



In Molon we trust.
View Quote


Remember his threads!  Awesomeness.  He influenced several of my purchases.

10 requires patience, but anything over 5 will get you some info.  3 is worthless, except for bragging rights.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:56:16 PM EDT
[#44]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Remember his threads!  Awesomeness.  He influenced several of my purchases.



10 requires patience, but anything over 5 will get you some info.  3 is worthless, except for bragging rights.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

10.
In Molon we trust.





Remember his threads!  Awesomeness.  He influenced several of my purchases.



10 requires patience, but anything over 5 will get you some info.  3 is worthless, except for bragging rights.





 
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:58:02 PM EDT
[#45]
I shoot 5 round groups, I feel it's a good representative of the load, rifle, and shooter.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:58:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Depends, using a sled where almost all human error is removed then 5-10 is proof testing of the rifle/machine.  

When using bags, and no machine rests, 3 shots is what is needed.  Multiple groups of 3 shots each.  This helps remove the ends of the bell curve to clean up the human error.

I don't have a sled, I use multiple 3 shot groups, 3X3 most of the time.

Link Posted: 9/2/2016 8:59:49 PM EDT
[#47]
The answer to the question is "Yes".
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 9:01:07 PM EDT
[#48]
5 round groups
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 9:01:41 PM EDT
[#49]
I shoot 5 to get an idea of how a rifle is shooting when I am zeroing it, a true performance of my shooting would be 10 shots.
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 9:05:33 PM EDT
[#50]
6, toss 1.
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