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Posted: 12/10/2016 1:31:24 PM EDT
I'm looking at 308 AR scopes, but I dont know much about scopes and what is out there. I'm in the research phase of things currently.

I'm not a Navy SEAL, or Steely Eyed SWAT Sniper, and I drink too much coffee to shoot a hummingbird in the eye at 1000 yards on a dark rainy night. I was an infantry Marine and shot expert the entire time I was in the Corps with my M16A2 and iron sights, but I never really learned ranging using mils, and have forgotten what I did know about mils while in the Marines.

I'm looking for a decent/good variable powered scope with an illuminated reticle. I'm not married to or against a BDC type reticle, but again, I've never used one. I do know the difference between FFP and SFP so I'm not completely ignorant, just about 98% ignorant.

Realistically, this is something that will be used as a range toy to punch holes in paper, but I'm not against taking it in the woods and using it for deer hunting either.

The range I'm a member at only goes out to 100 yards, but I can easily go to other ranges nearby that go out to 600 yards. I havent shot out to 600 yards before, so that might be fun to try.

I've been looking at 1x6, 1x8, 3x9's, 2x10's, and a couple of 2x12's. There are some awesome looking scopes from makers like swarovski, Night Force, Schmidt & Bender, etc....but they are hideously expensive and that would be a massive case of lipstick on a pig.

I'm generally a buy one, cry once kinda guy, so I'm willing to spend about $1000 on a scope, (and mount if the scope is larger than 30 mm. I have a Larue 30mm mount I'm not doing anything  with, so that will save some money).

So what thoughts or suggestions do you guys have?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 1:39:37 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a 3.5x10-50mm scope on my .308 hunting rifle, but for a .308 AR I'd probably go with a 1-6 of some sort. I have the Vortex Razor HD 1-6 on a 5.56 SBR and I'd probably use it on a .308 AR without hesitation. A little more than your $1000, but you would be able to use that 30mm mount.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 2:05:00 PM EDT
[#2]
I have the 2.5-10x32 FFP vortex PST on my RRA LAR-8.  It's OK, but I probably wouldn't buy it again.    I'd probably go with their new 1-6x if I still wanted magnification, but I'm probably going to just put an Aimpoint PRO on it when I get tired of the scope.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 2:58:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Bushnell Elite Tactical 1-8.5xx24mm with BTR-2 reticle.

I have an AR in .308. I've had different optics on it ... red dot, Trijicon 3-9 variable and the Bushnell does the best of both worlds and its lighter than the Vortex 1-6 HD.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:21:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Just reading a little on the Bushnell, it's got a 34mm tube which means I'm now buying a mount or rings for it too...not the end of the world, but it increases the price as well.

You guys seem to like the 1-6 scopes...

Anything for or against this Leupold: Leupold Vx-6 1-6x24mm 30mm Multigun Cds, Matte, Firedot Bdc (120448)?
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:25:09 PM EDT
[#5]
... look toward the Nightforce NXS
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:27:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just reading a little on the Bushnell, it's got a 34mm tube which means I'm now buying a mount or rings for it too...not the end of the world, but it increases the price as well.

You guys seem to like the 1-6 scopes...

Anything for or against this Leupold: Leupold Vx-6 1-6x24mm 30mm Multigun Cds, Matte, Firedot Bdc (120448)?
View Quote
You could just grab 34mm rings for your current Larue mount. I bought a set off the EE for about $35 a couple months ago.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:34:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:38:37 PM EDT
[#8]
I just bought a NSX 3-15?x50 for my LMT.  Previously had a Viper PST 6-24x50.  IMO the PST fine for most applications.  Under 1k I also like

SS 6x or 10x fixed power, Mark 4 2.5-8x32 and the Mark 4 3.5x10.

I am not a fan of Burris, optics and tracking are good, eye box sucks.

I think don't' care for the 1-6x scopes as I never shoot under 6x.  They also very bad in bad light.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:40:42 PM EDT
[#9]
This isn't what you're asking for at all, but I am incredibly happy with the SWFA SS 10x42 scope on my G2.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:42:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Vortex hst/pst have a lot of good options in that range

I'd go with minimum 10x if you're going to shoot 600 yards
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:46:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Nikon p308 isn't too shabby.  They can be had for under $200 on sale.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:47:23 PM EDT
[#12]
I find myself in the same boat your in.

I think I have settled on getting the Vortex Viper PST 4-16 FFP MRAD.

With their new lineup coming out, I'm hoping I can snag one on clearance.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 3:50:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Make sure that the adjustment turrets and reticle use the same system:  IE mil/mil, or MOA/MOA.  Either one works, but having a scope that is mil/MOA or the other way around fouls things up.

A first focal plane is more useful than second focal plane.

Learn about exit pupil size, and how that relates to your scope.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:33:22 PM EDT
[#15]
That scope line is nice. I like the look of the 2.5x10 42mm .....but that price though....ouch!

ETA - referring to the Nightforce NSX line of scopes.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:34:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You could just grab 34mm rings for your current Larue mount. I bought a set off the EE for about $35 a couple months ago.
View Quote


That actually makes sense and was not something I had thought of. Thanks for that.


Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:38:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just bought a NSX 3-15?x50 for my LMT.  Previously had a Viper PST 6-24x50.  IMO the PST fine for most applications.  Under 1k I also like

SS 6x or 10x fixed power, Mark 4 2.5-8x32 and the Mark 4 3.5x10.

I am not a fan of Burris, optics and tracking are good, eye box sucks.

I think don't' care for the 1-6x scopes as I never shoot under 6x.  They also very bad in bad light.
View Quote



I've got a Leupold VXR Scout 1.5x5 with a 30mm tube on my Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle and I've been surprised at how well it does in pretty low light while hunting, but the longest shot I've made with it was 200 yards, and that was in good light.

What does "eye box" refer to? I've seen it several times in the specifications portion of sales media for scopes, but I dont know what that means?
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:39:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This isn't what you're asking for at all, but I am incredibly happy with the SWFA SS 10x42 scope on my G2.
View Quote


What about it makes you prefer it over a variable power scope?
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:58:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Check out the Vortex Viper PST and Razor lines. They have a very nice Millitary/LE/Vetrans discount. PM me for details on it if you want, but it is worth your time to look into. They make a PST 2.5-10x32 that would probably work well for what you are wanting, lit recticle, side focus, matching reticle and turrets. If you want a little less magnification thier Razor 1-6 is a really nice scope. I own Vortex scopes in the Diamondback, Viper, Viper PST and Razor Gen II lines. I have been very happy with all of them and find they are comparable to scopes that are much more expensive.

Just an FYI, if you find any scope they carry advertised for less SWFA will beat the price by 10% of the difference. I bought my last Vortex from them, they matched Midways price and took the 10% off, I saved about $300 off of normal pricing.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 7:00:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I've got a Leupold VXR Scout 1.5x5 with a 30mm tube on my Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle and I've been surprised at how well it does in pretty low light while hunting, but the longest shot I've made with it was 200 yards, and that was in good light.

What does "eye box" refer to? I've seen it several times in the specifications portion of sales media for scopes, but I dont know what that means?
View Quote


Eyebox refers to how much you can move your head forward and back and still see through the scope clearly. Scopes with small a eyebox at max power suck.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 8:04:52 PM EDT
[#21]
In general fixed power scopes are less complex and thus cost less, have better "glass" and are more rugged.  In the case of the SS line for $3-4 hundred gets one a hell of a scope.   The issue is they are less versatile
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 8:10:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That scope line is nice. I like the look of the 2.5x10 42mm .....but that price though....ouch!

ETA - referring to the Nightforce NSX line of scopes.
View Quote


Then look at the PST or PST gen 2.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 8:10:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Make sure that the adjustment turrets and reticle use the same system:  IE mil/mil, or MOA/MOA.  Either one works, but having a scope that is mil/MOA or the other way around fouls things up.

A first focal plane is more useful than second focal plane.

Learn about exit pupil size, and how that relates to your scope.
View Quote


I didnt realize that scopes were made that were mil reticle and MOA turrets, or vis versa....that seems problematic, and I'm not a rocket surgeon.

What is exit pupil size?
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 8:22:13 PM EDT
[#24]
The SWFA SS HD line of scopes are nice for the money.  IMO, you do not need a lot of magnification for 600 yards.  Ive used 6x for 1000 yard shots on half scale silhouette targets.  Extra magnification wt hurt, though, if you don't need a 1x low end.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 8:32:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Hello again a555. Good concert huh?  

We have the same scope on our .308, it gets the job done.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 9:32:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Primary Arms has some good general use scopes that are cheapish. If you don't plan on HALOing into a hot zone then I'd look at those. 
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 4:54:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Primary Arms has some good general use scopes that are cheapish. If you don't plan on HALOing into a hot zone then I'd look at those. 
View Quote


I've been looking at them...I like PA's stuff. And I've never jumped from an airplane before, and really dont feel the burning desire to start at 43. If I'm HALOing in to a hot zone, things have well and truly hit the fan.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 5:15:44 PM EDT
[#28]
I have been shopping scopes for awhile now.  Wanted something sub 1000, with a 1 low wnd and 6-8 high end.  Ive looked and looked. Thought about the Vortex 2-10, but those thing weigh a bunch and I dont like the crosshairs for rapid engagement. Looked at the Sig Tangos, but getting into a non established optics brand kinda has me .

Personallly, I'd wait for the new Vortex PST 2s.  1-6 coming out baby!!!
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 6:54:05 PM EDT
[#29]
I went with the Nightforce 2.5-10x on my 308 AR. I tried a 1-4x and a large Leupold MK4 first but it was like Goldilocks, the 1-4 was too small, the Leupold MK4 was too big, but the 2.5-10 was just right. For a regular 16" AR10 type it seems like the perfect scope. They are pricey but worth it. I got a good deal on a used one and am glad I did. A buddy of mine has the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10 and it is also a great scope for the money.

Gratuitous pic of my SIG 716 with Nighforce

SIG 716 lancer handguard by c.swimm, on Flickr
Link Posted: 12/15/2016 7:05:05 PM EDT
[#30]
That looks awesome!
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 8:08:26 AM EDT
[#31]
thanks

SIG 716 by c.swimm, on Flickr
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 8:14:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have the 2.5-10x32 FFP vortex PST on my RRA LAR-8.  It's OK, but I probably wouldn't buy it again.    I'd probably go with their new 1-6x if I still wanted magnification, but I'm probably going to just put an Aimpoint PRO on it when I get tired of the scope.
View Quote


Sounds like mine, except mines 2.5x12. I'm happy with it.

Link Posted: 12/16/2016 8:17:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
... look toward the Nightforce NXS
View Quote

I love mine.
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 8:18:29 AM EDT
[#34]
1) Primary arms-$100 1-4x -$250 4-14 mil mil -$1,000 HD executive models

2) SWFA $250- $2000

3) Vortex $100-$3000


My top three normal person brands.

Link Posted: 12/16/2016 8:35:40 AM EDT
[#35]
OP i'd strongly consider a Vortex PST in 2.5-10 or 4-16. I know 4-16 sounds "overkill" given that you stated you wanted something under that range, but the difference is only 4oz between their 4-16 and 2.5-10 in FFP (you WANT ffp beyond 300 yds, trust me), its just a $100 difference. Ive had their 4-16 before and it was AWESOME for chasing half-dimes at 200yds. This range isnt impressive, but for a 308, which works quite well to 600 and beyond, makes sense to go for something more 10x glass imo. I'd suggest you learn more about the features of scopes before you take the dive into anything. For anything beyond dusk, an illuminated reticle is a godsend. Their zero stops are awesome as well. Another thing to keep in mind, the larger your objective lens, the more light gets gathered in (thus more low light vision). So a 50mm picture like their 4-16 FFP is superior to their 2.5-10 (which is a 32mm objective on their FFP line). Of course if you're just shooting, and only shooting steel plates at under 400yds then the 2.5-10 makes much more sense.
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 8:48:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What about it makes you prefer it over a variable power scope?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't what you're asking for at all, but I am incredibly happy with the SWFA SS 10x42 scope on my G2.


What about it makes you prefer it over a variable power scope?


ever been to the range and see anyone not use the highest power?? The only time its a pita to use when you have mirage at longer distances.

for hunting and paper punching at moderate (sub 800m) I think most should ditch the varipowered optics and stick with decent 10x
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 9:07:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


ever been to the range and see anyone not use the highest power?? The only time its a pita to use when you have mirage at longer distances.

for hunting and paper punching at moderate (sub 800m) I think most should ditch the varipowered optics and stick with decent 10x
View Quote


I have to back zoom off alot in long distance competition for quick target acquisition. I don't think I'll ever buy a fixed zoom optic. To each their own.

I'm looking for the right 3-15/18 for the same thing OP.
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 9:44:10 AM EDT
[#38]
I went with Bushnell elite 6500 2.5-16x50 and have been very happy with it. I like the 2.5 for hunting and the 16 power for target. I think the price range is 650-800 for this scope.
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 12:10:39 PM EDT
[#39]
For your situation where you're mostly shooting at 100 yards with the possibility of going to 600 - I'd look into the 1-6 variables as well.

That's my plan for my notional 308 AR because my local shooting range only goes to 250 yards and I don't foresee shooting farther than that here in Virginia while hunting (if I went hunting with it).


Link Posted: 12/16/2016 12:17:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Nightforce SHV F1 4-14

100-200 over your budget but it would be well worth it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 2:52:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have the 2.5-10x32 FFP vortex PST on my RRA LAR-8.  It's OK, but I probably wouldn't buy it again.    I'd probably go with their new 1-6x if I still wanted magnification, but I'm probably going to just put an Aimpoint PRO on it when I get tired of the scope.
View Quote


I've had a 3-9x40 VX II on my LAR-8 for 5 or 6 years and was pretty satisfied.  I swapped that scope over to the Mrs's new iron, so I went with a Viper HS 2.5-10x44 BDC for a replacement.  I would tell you how awesome it is, but it's still sitting in my closet waiting on me to install it.
Link Posted: 12/16/2016 3:10:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


ever been to the range and see anyone not use the highest power?? The only time its a pita to use when you have mirage at longer distances.

for hunting and paper punching at moderate (sub 800m) I think most should ditch the varipowered optics and stick with decent 10x
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't what you're asking for at all, but I am incredibly happy with the SWFA SS 10x42 scope on my G2.


What about it makes you prefer it over a variable power scope?


ever been to the range and see anyone not use the highest power?? The only time its a pita to use when you have mirage at longer distances.

for hunting and paper punching at moderate (sub 800m) I think most should ditch the varipowered optics and stick with decent 10x


I've had my eye on a couple fixed 10x scopes for my .308 project.  I like the KISS approach to a fixed 10x with mil turrets and mil reticle. Takes almost all the math out of the equation (haha pun not intended!).  Lighter weight, maybe more robust - less moving parts, less cost, and should be faster to make accurate shots due to less math and fiddling with turrets (particularly with a SFP scope) - IF you can center-up with your down-range target through the scope while on a 10x setting 24/7/365.

I'd also like to know what everyone's thoughts are on a 1" tube vs a 30mm tube, and how critical that is for a fixed-10x scope , besides the obvious "more light" concept.

Also, if I had OP's $1k budget for a scope, my head would be spinning, with all the good options out there.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 11:31:49 AM EDT
[#43]
Viper PST 4-16X50 EBR-1 reticle (FFP)

LaRue mount.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 12:04:38 PM EDT
[#44]
I have the sig tango 4 4-16, it's ffp and if you can get over the color I think it competes pretty well with the viper pst 4-16 ffp. Glass is really crisp and clear and it tracked fine on steel to 800 for me, only gripe so far is it doesn't have enough adjustment to get me to 1000 yards (3 mils short) and again the color but even it is growing one me. I think a 20moa Larue scope mount is in order eventually, but with the ffp I can always hold 3 mils high on the target. 30mm tube on that one as well.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 12:12:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have to back zoom off alot in long distance competition for quick target acquisition. I don't think I'll ever buy a fixed zoom optic. To each their own.

I'm looking for the right 3-15/18 for the same thing OP.
View Quote



Agreed.  The ability to scan at 4-6x is important to me plus where I live mirage is a bitch.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 7:56:07 PM EDT
[#46]
There are ALOT of choices.....

Trying to narrow down some choices here....should I be ruling out Mil Dot scopes and going more towards MOA dot type scopes? I dont know much about Mils other than 1 mil is about 36 inches at 1000 yards, and it's about 3.5 inches at 100. I understand MOA is about 1 inch at 100 yards. Again, I probably wont be using it to shoot ISIS terrorists in the eye at 1000 yards on a dark stormy night.

The idea of being able to use the scope as a ranging device is interesting but I dont currently know how to do that. I understand the differences between FFP scopes and SFP scopes, but for the purposes of ranging, does the FFP need to be at a certain magnification?

I'm beginning to lean more towards the Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44 FFP because it's slightly more magnification on the top end, but still low enough to be useful for a larger field of view.  Which reticle pattern would be easier for someone who is just getting into precision shooting to use?  Realistically, this will be used 99% for shooting at paper on a flat range. I would very much like to be able to take this rifle deer hunting as well.


Thanks again for all the information and suggestions folks, I really appreciate it....even though my head hurts from all the choices out there now.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:30:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There are ALOT of choices.....

Trying to narrow down some choices here....should I be ruling out Mil Dot scopes and going more towards MOA dot type scopes? I dont know much about Mils other than 1 mil is about 36 inches at 1000 yards, and it's about 3.5 inches at 100. I understand MOA is about 1 inch at 100 yards. Again, I probably wont be using it to shoot ISIS terrorists in the eye at 1000 yards on a dark stormy night.

The idea of being able to use the scope as a ranging device is interesting but I dont currently know how to do that. I understand the differences between FFP scopes and SFP scopes, but for the purposes of ranging, does the FFP need to be at a certain magnification?

I'm beginning to lean more towards the Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44 FFP because it's slightly more magnification on the top end, but still low enough to be useful for a larger field of view.  Which reticle pattern would be easier for someone who is just getting into precision shooting to use?  Realistically, this will be used 99% for shooting at paper on a flat range. I would very much like to be able to take this rifle deer hunting as well.


Thanks again for all the information and suggestions folks, I really appreciate it....even though my head hurts from all the choices out there now.
View Quote

FFP scopes have the ability to range at any magnification, but SFP scopes need to be set to a given magnification to be used to range. With FFP scopes the reticle grows and shrinks with the magnification setting keeping the stadia relative to what you are looking at. 

You do realize that you can run a high magnification scope and piggy-back mount a red-dot for close in quick acquisition shooting? 

Nightforce Beast and Trijicon RMR. You can thank me later. 
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:39:01 PM EDT
[#48]

1-6 or a 1-8


Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:15:10 PM EDT
[#49]
FFP-you can range at any magnification.
SFP-you can only range at one magnification without having to do additional math.
The reticle on the PST Gen II is essentially the same, just one is laid out in Mil other in MOA. I like MOA because I have been thinking in MOA for years and the adjustments are typically slightly finer on MOA scopes.  Mil is more popular. Either will work fine, just pick one and learn it.
The locking knobs in the Gen IIs should be a nice upgrade over the Gen I scopes. However as far as I know the Gen IIs are not yet available for purchase.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:22:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Buy once, cry once and all.



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