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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/28/2003 1:55:00 PM EDT
every day goes by one can see it turning into something we once fought against.

www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,61341,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 1:57:49 PM EDT
Dude, we're still nowhere near the "Heil Hitler" stage. Get a grip, or perhaps a sense of proportion.... [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:02:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Dude, we're still nowhere near the "Heil Hitler" stage. Get a grip, or perhaps a sense of proportion.... [rolleyes]
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I see what he's saying, look at this... [blue][b]Congress approved a bill on Friday that expands the reach of the Patriot Act, reduces oversight of the FBI and intelligence agencies and, according to critics, shifts the balance of power away from the legislature and the courts. A provision of an intelligence spending bill will expand the power of the FBI to subpoena business documents and transactions from a broader range of businesses -- everything from libraries to travel agencies to eBay -- without first seeking approval from a judge.[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:03:29 PM EDT
incrementalism for the sheep. By the time most people who are asleep, wake up, it will be to late. Too many people want to believe good, rather than see the evil that is being done. They need to hear the crys and wake up.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:06:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 2:08:42 PM EDT by lippo]
Who here has read "1984" lately? And what was that guy from the future saying about the taking away of our rights leading to ATF shoot outs this coming spring and summer? From the future, HA! But he may be on to something. ?
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:06:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 2:41:08 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
"It was about that time That someone came up with the idea of [i]Total Criminalization[/i] Based on the principle that if we were All crooks We could be at last uniform in the eyes of [i]The Law[/i] Shrewdly our legislators Calculated That most people were Too lazy to perform a [i]Real Crime[/i] So new laws were Manufactured Making it possible for Anyone to violate them Any time of the day or night, And once we had all broken Some kind of law We'd all be in the same Big Happy club." F.Z.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:07:06 PM EDT
This whole Patriot Act is dangerous. I know LE. The LE community will use it's powers to the very limits that legal interpretations will allow. These powers will be used against everyone someday soon, not just "suspected terrorists".
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:12:11 PM EDT
I'm not necessarily saying that the law is a good one (or even a legal one, for that matter). But I am well and truly sick and tired of the "USA=Nazi Germany" BULLSHIT that far too many people here are so quick to "RAH-RAH!" agree with. That's all I'm saying. The fact that the FBI can now do searches without warrants is as desturbing to me as any of you.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:20:04 PM EDT
Like this wasn't already happening? The Patriot act only legitimizes what has already been going on for quite some time. We are not near the 1930s Germany but we do have some very interesting parallels going on now days.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:31:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 2:32:06 PM EDT by vedubin01]
I used the words Heil Hitler to get people to look. I understand we are nowhere close to the 1930's but now all we have to do is get someone in high power to start the turn. Letters go out and people start missing or jailed without due process. What is it going to take to say this is enough?
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:31:43 PM EDT
News Flash: for over seventy-five years, state prosecutors in Fla have had this power.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:32:26 PM EDT
One wonders what the United States, and how it's history has been written, would be if the internet were alive when Lincoln was president...
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:32:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lippo: Who here has read "1984" lately? And what was that guy from the future saying about the taking away of our rights leading to ATF shoot outs this coming spring and summer? From the future, HA! But he may be on to something. ?
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still skeptical about our time traveler john titor. but it is getting freakishly close to his predictions. he once stated that people dont trust food that they dont grow or raise themselves..now we have mexicans selling contaminated food for us to eat at chi chi's! oh well, im going to go put my tinfoil hat on and watch stargate or something
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:49:54 PM EDT
And we all must remember that the Patriot act will only be "bad" when used by Democrats. [rolleyes] [devil]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 2:51:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: This whole Patriot Act is dangerous. I know LE. The LE community will use it's powers to the very limits that legal interpretations will allow. These powers will be used against everyone someday soon, not just "suspected terrorists".
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Damn, never thought I would hear you say that.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 3:16:59 PM EDT
It’s not what laws like this will be used for today. It what they WILL be used for tomorrow. It’s not just a single law and what it might do today. It’s what the accumulation of laws WILL be used for tomorrow. Has ANY law on the books not been stretched to limits that no one at the time of passage could have foreseen? Incrementalism. We add another piece of our imminent demise every time our “lawmakers” do something like this. Study history well my friends. This HAS happened before and we are going down that same path. All that is required is someone with no morals and an evil agenda to be placed into office to utilize the power that we have allowed them to have, against us. Again, history is repeating itself and it scares the shit out of me.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 3:39:34 PM EDT
Some people are under the impression that this has just begun recently [lol] I was first trained to locate, identify, and counter Electronic Eavesdropping Measures over 10 years ago. When I was first trained and assigned, I was amazed by how many "bugs" marked [b]JSI Telecom [/b] that we found planted in agency offices. (JSI Telecom has only one customer, and it's LEO) On my own research I found that over 90% of the electronic anomalies we found; slaves, leaches, DNR's, carrier current units both RF and hard-wired, were placed there [u]without a warrant[/u]. Of course, when found these units would be disavowed or identified as "investigative tools". (Investigaive Tool means that the bug was put into place [i]illegally[/i] and anything found with it would be inadmissable in a court of law, but then all you had to do was develop PC and convince a judge to issue you a Title III warrant for it after-the-fact. The single biggest abusers were probably BATF, followed by DEA and then FBI (yes, FBI; they had a real appetite for DNR's (Dialed Number Recorders) placed on a suspect's phone line. It's a dirt little secret tool that allows you to monitor the phone numbers of all incoming and outgoing calls from a suspect's phone number [u]without[/u] actually listening to or recording the phone call. From this, you develop Probable Cause and get a warrant for the tap. Also, there was an unreal number of taps placed on other rival agencies by other rival agencies to find out where their budgets were going to collide, (Spy vs Spy?), because "I'll be damned if we're going to loose our funding for project X just because another agency has a similar program already in place. We also often ran into interagency refusal to share information, (you can teach another gov't agency a life-saving technique, but you CANNOT teach them OUR way of doing this because our way is "Classified", even if it would save lives) We even once found a bug in a full-bird Colonel's apartment that had been put there by ANOTHER officer's WIFE just so she could get in on some gossip that she had been left out of the circle. (Why are there TWO baby monitors here and just one receiver? Because the bitch kept the other receiver and is listening to it RIGHT NOW, stupid!) In summary, most of these abuses, whether it's illegal wiretaps, unauthorized access of bank records, library cards, ad nauseum, this shit has been going on a LONG time before now.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 4:02:52 PM EDT
This has been occuring for a long time. [url]http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/fisa_faq.html[/url] Read the above and about secret courts etc.
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