User Panel
Posted: 9/24/2004 2:06:17 PM EDT
Would you go for that? No other fed taxes?
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I would be thrilled if the gov. went to a flat tax (sales tax) system.
They will never do it. It would throw thousands of valuable IRS workers out of business, not to mention tax preparers and tax lawyers. Oh yeah, lets not forget. Then congressmen would be paying taxes too. This will never be. |
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Sounds good too but some Republicans are pushing a 23% Federal sales tax
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My mom said the same thing: Nice but no chance. CRC |
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Works in other countries. I was in south america 23% IVA (Added Value Tax) and 4% property tax and thats it.
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too much for me. [kerry]the weathiest 1% would love it though[/kerry] |
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But you would not pay any other Fed taxes?
Inez Tennebaum is slamming Jim DeMint over this in SC. |
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In a heart beat. I live modestly and that would mean a ton of cash back in my pocket. |
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I thought the idea was they were going to get rid of the IRS and institute the sales tax. I'd much rather have the sales tax than an income tax.
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Yeah keep all your own money but a compact car (read Geo Metro) costs $23K while I was in South America.(of course that included import fees)
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I would turn into the world's biggest saver... lol, wouldn't buy shit... love it!
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Taxing what you consume makes a lot more sense to me than taxing what you earn.
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It seems on the high side.
But then they're taking more than that out of my paycheck as it is. |
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This borrow-and-spend economy would go down the shitter in a month. Saving is great but it doesn't generate a lot of retail sales, which of course lowers commercial spending, which lowers industrial spending... Which means less jobs all around.
Japan recently had a negative interest rate for people saving their money in traditional savings accounts. They were actually LOSING money by having it in the bank. That's mostly because they as a culture like to bank a lot of their earnings. The best situation is to be a saver and investor in a spendy economy. |
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You guys must be forgetting that we currently work the first five months of the year to satisfy all our tax obligations for that year.
People would crap their pants if they knew how much of their money goes to taxes. |
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Here is a column that Neil (High Priest of the Painful Truth) Boortz wrote on the Fair tax plan.
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Won't work for me.
I doubt if 23% would be enough to pay all the bills. |
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This only part of the Federal tax you pay - don't forget SSI and Medicare. A consumption tax is good for consumers that are frugal, bad for spenders. Besides, the spenders on both sides of the aisle are voracious and will eat this revenue quickly, soon followed by restoration of the income tax.
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This would be one of the most regressive tax system. Discourages buying/trade. Negatively impacts the poor far more than the rich.
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I know this in the post above but roughly 20% of all retail cost is used to cover payroll and other types of tax. With these gone we should see about a 20% reduction in cost of goods (in theory I know). That pretty much evens out. Couple that with the 40% of your paycheck you get back and it's a good deal..but as said above add in congress having to pay those taxes and you've got the old snowball in hell cliche.
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I'm tired of hearing about the poor. 90% of the "poor" in America have 2 tvs, a car,cable,all appliances, and live in larger sq. ft. house than the average income person does in any major city in the world. The top 1% of wage earners pay 90 something% of all taxes paid. Now you tell me thats fair. Plus a tax on purchases would make the illegals turn loose some of that $$$ that they aren't paying income tax on now and not send it to some 3rd world shithole so they can bring more of them over here. |
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23% is federal only, it would probably go to 35% when you include state/local taxes. (think 8% local sales tax, plus state income tax, plus local property tax)
Remember, even if the tax system changes dramatically, it's still going to have to extract the same amount of money from the people. The current tax system operates at an equilibrium between opposing forces (raise vs cut, progressive vs regressive, lobbyist A vs lobbyist B). I fear that any major new tax system would eventually be hammered into the same sort of equilibrium, with the same people paying about the same as they are now. (if you really want to change the system permanently, we need to change the fundamental legislative machinery - campaigning, elections, lobbying, etc - not individual rules). I agree that more transparency would be helpful in any case. Citizens should know what they are paying, and what services they are receiving in return. Also we need to dispense with this silly "tax cuts are for the rich" rhetoric. The tax system is so progressive that it's virtually impossible to construct a tax cut plan that won't favor the rich. (hmm, I wonder if it's designed that way for a reason...) |
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Also, don't forget the amount of tax money that would come in from the millions of foreign tourists that come in every year. Just think of say Orlando, FL. How many foreign visitors visit that city every year? Think of how much extra money would be made off of the foreign tourists spending their money in these places.
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I would jump on it with both feet. The basic assumption for minimum income tax (assuming you pay it, as opposed to filing a "tax return" underwhich you pay nothing and get the $3500 "earned income tax credit" - a friggin check to compensate you for contributing NOTHING to the shared cost of gov't services) is 22%. So right now, we all pay 22% or more income & payroll tax, plus sales taxes, et c. et c. People who actually pay taxes now would pay less than they do now.
ETA: I'd cheerfully forego the "rebate" program just to stay off their damned lists. |
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Hell YES!!
I'd be forced to limit my spending in order to save a shitload of cash. I'd be seriously discretionary about any purchase. |
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I dunno, but if it ever passed, I'd buy stock in Ebay and anyone else that sells used items--unless the Gov.org changes the way things are sold between individuals, you will start to see a HUGE surge in sales of used stuff between individuals and more of the barter system.
AFARR |
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Your estimates are off, it's more like the top 25% earners paying over 80% of taxes. I am fortunate to belong to this group and I harbor no bitterness or sense of injustice in having to pay a higher share within reason. Unlike you, some of us do care about the poor. |
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My point is not that I don't care, it is the definition of "poor" Most of the poor are just lazy or goverment subsidized for generations. When you are "broke" you go to "work" On top of that who said you can only work 40 hrs a week? The kids need shoes, the house needs repair, get off your ass and go make some $$$. Its the lazy people that I have no respect for, not the ill, handicapped,etc. Also the statistics are correct. You prove otherwise. |
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That I agree with 100% The difficulty comes in putting together a "simple" tax system that recognizes true difficulties faced by people that work hard yet remain poor for whatever reason (single moms, illness, low paying unskilled laborers, etc) while eliminating benefits that provide incentive for the lazy to leech off the system. |
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If they are that poor, they don't need to buy anything but needs,not wants. Maybe no tax on groceries? btw are you a democrap? |
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How bout 10% FLAT tax. No tax shelters no exemptions and EVERYONE pays. |
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Read the above post about Boortz. It includes SS and Medicare. |
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The only thing I'd be pissed off about is that as a college student, I have basically no income. I'm living off of my savings, which i've already been taxed on. The result is right now I pay very little tax (and am basically living like I'm broke) -- forcing me to pay a 23% tax on everything would mean that I couldn't finish school.
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A flat tax sounds good but I just don't think it's viable. When all you know is "I worked at X, I made Y dollars... my tax should be Z" it makes sense. When you get into all the complicated financial structures, accounts, investments, deals, and business structures leading up from self employed to Corps along with all the ins and outs of investments it becomes much more complicated than "take your income times X".
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Nope. Any income tax is essentially confiscation of wealth. Sales tax is voluntary. If I don’t want to pay tax, I don’t buy big ticket items. Sure, I’ll pay a little bit buying essentials. No big deal. I still come out WAY ahead. The way Americans spend, and would spend with all that extra money, would probably put the government ahead. More importantly, it would allow those of us who are interested in keeping what we make a choice to do so. |
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Simple what you make is what you bring home, what you buy add 23% at the register. No IRS, so it must be easier. Remember what I said earlier, How many illegals are here? Millions???? Those millions would have to pay the 23% too, think about that. That alone would steal some of their reason to sneak their asses in here and work off the clock or claim 10 exemptions.Everytime they buy some bling bling or those damn wheels that keep spinning when they stop thats more$$$$. There would be no deficit. |
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I couldn't imagine paying 23% tax on something big like a car. yikes!
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With the amount of tax writeoffs I usually have each year, the 23% sales tax would cost me much more than the current system. Last year I had a net income of $5500.
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Um, what would happen is that would get passed, and then they would forget to repeal the income taxes. We would end up with both in all likelihood. Then they would spend 10x what they took in from the sales taxes.
Unfortunately, this would hurt the individual State's ability to generate revenue. As people buy less, they are also going to be giving less to their state government. Consequently, the States will depend even more heavily on Federal Aid. In turn, the Federal Government will force the State legislatures to adopt whatever laws they dictate as a condition of the federal aid. Then your freedoms will get eaten away all the quicker by federally mandated state laws. No, as good as it at first sounds, the answer is revising the current system. And by revise, I mean scrapping the IRS and starting over. |
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That makes you a Communist. You want to redistribute your wealth, go right ahead. There are hundreds of charities you can give your money out to if you want to save the world. Social Security Disability. Medicaid. Food Stamps. Lower Income Tax bracket. Etc. Just how much more is enough? It's an endless pit. If you give a dog a bone, he will eat it and the marrow and be your best friend for life. Give a poor person a bone and they will ask why it doesn't have any meat on it. If it has meat, then they'll ask why is their piece smaller than yours? People aren't dogs. They will take and take and take if you are willing to give. They can and do abuse the system whenever possible. I witness this firsthand on a daily basis.
Boys, I think we have a bleeder. |
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