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Posted: 1/2/2004 11:23:38 PM EDT
I have always voted Republican but the Republicans are way out of touch with the working class and the middle class.  With all of the jobs being exported out of the coutry the Republicans seem to give the companies their blessing.  With all of the tech and manufacturing jobs leaving for India and China,  I soon won't be able to buy a pack of BB's. I have been flirting with the idea of supporting Dean for President.  He is standing with workers and pledged to stop the bleeding of the American jobs.  When he was Govenor of Vermont he had a A rating from the NRA or other progun groups.  

   Do you think he will screw us on our Semi's and other gun rights?

 
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:27:21 PM EDT
Dean will bend you over and make you feel like a prison bitch faster than you can say "Daddy".  

Not that the republicans are doing much better.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:30:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By less_than_zero:
Do you think he will screw us on our Semi's and other gun rights?
View Quote


yes
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:37:56 PM EDT
Dean wants to raise your taxes :
Take a Hike - Howard Dean wants to raise your taxes, whether you're dead or alive.  
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004500

Even James Carville is flummoxed by him :
Carville: Dean Suffering From 'Political Lobotomy' http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/1/1/191659.shtml

Whatever he's saying now is designed to attract the radical left. If he gets the nomination he'll drift back right to try to keep some of the bulk of the Dem party together, not seem so radical.

He won't take your guns without a complicit Congress.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 11:54:31 PM EDT by raven]
DUDE!
You think think REPUBLICANS are the ones out of touch?  Homosexual marriage, affirmative action, higher taxes, victim politics, ssocial engineering and income redistribution,apologizing to terrorists who attack us, do these sound like approaches to governing the country that you agree with?

Howard Dean's the one out of touch.  This is a very religious country and he knows that.  So the man who left his religion over a a disagreement about a BIKE PATH is now saying he's a big Christian to pander to voters like YOU there in the South.

I don't care if Republicans are "in touch" with me.  I dont need some politicians to care about me, or make sure my needs are met.  All I ask of them is to leave me the hell alone and dont fuck up the things they're in charge of most importantly  national defense and the economy. And frankly, I dont trust the Democrats on either of those two most important issues.  I sure as shit dont trust them with all the less important stuff (which, incidentally, they believe is the most important).

Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:59:44 PM EDT

Howard Dean's economic proposals will raise Americans' tax rates as follows:

Personal Income Tax Rate (lowest) 10% to 15%
Personal Income Tax Rate (middle) 25% to 28%
Persoanl Income Tax Rate (highest) 35% to 39.6%
Capital Gains Tax 15% to 20%
Dividend Income 15% to 39.6%
Inheritance Tax 0% to 55%
Child Credit $1000 to $500
Marriage Penalty, eliminated to reinstated

This tax policy will sharply cut disposable personal income, create a recession, raise unemployment and make the budget deficit even worse.

Think "Jimmy Carter with a pissed-off attitude"


As far as the RKBA - Howard Dean believes the 2nd Amendment means nothing. He leaves it up to the states to decide WHATEVER kind of gun-control or even outright gun-banning laws should be enacted.

He favors the Brady bill.
He favors closing the "Gunshow Loophole"
He favors extending the AWB.
He thinks states should be able to pass any MORE gunlaws laws they want.

Oh and he also believes GWBush knew about 9-11 beforehand, that the way to deal with race relations in America is to "educate white folks", that capturing Saddam Hussein did nothing to make Americans safer (including our military), that OBL should be read his Miranda rights and be given a fair and speedy trial by a jury of his peers, that protecting American National Security is a job for the UN...


Yeah, he's a real keeper.

Link Posted: 1/3/2004 12:00:13 AM EDT
I'll probably vote Republican this election in order to get SCOTUS stacked slightly in our favor, then vote primarily Libertarian after that.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:47:35 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies.  Here is my concern... Large corporations are shipping jobs to other countries faster than we can say unemployment.  A majority of these jobs are manufacturing and high tech jobs (medical, pharmacutical,IT,Accounting, tech support,etc).  Since the Republican and large multi-national corporations are married do you think that they give a shit about jobs.  If you work in any of these fields namely IT and manufacturing (including support,clerical and supervisory positions) all of you are at risk.  If you ain't got no damn job how are you going to buy a damn GUN?  THE NRA IS ALREADY BROKE!!!  If you can't donate they will get even deeper in the RED!  After you loose your job and you start work at Walmart-- what if Walmart quits selling ammo?  Are you going to bitch?  Uh, no.  Walmart will just bitch slap you into submission or they will give your job to some illegal alien.  If the Republicans give a crap about our National Defense then they will stop the export of our manufacturing and high tech jobs.  If will be hard to help our defense  whenever we have to fire plastic missles with "Made in China" imprinted on the side.  Well, hell if the missle doesn't fire I guess that we can call tech. support to India and speak to a someone speaking broken English reading from scripted answers.  I know that this sounds extreme but it will soon be reality.  Dean is the only one that seems to be talking about the export of jobs-- no one else is.  The dozens and dozens of companies that are doing this are keeping low profiles.  Just watch Lou Dobbs and see the long list of companies that are already doing this!
  Of course I think that the Democrats are just as shitty as the Republicans.  What are our answers?  Now I don't want to pledge my allegience to the UN nor do I want to accept Gay marriage, and other crap.

????????????????????????????????////
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 8:29:08 AM EDT
Job exporting did not begin with GWB and Al Gore did not invent the internet.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 10:58:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 11:00:58 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By less_than_zero:
Thanks for the replies.  Here is my concern... Large corporations are shipping jobs to other countries faster than we can say unemployment.  A majority of these jobs are manufacturing and high tech jobs (medical, pharmacutical,IT,Accounting, tech support,etc).  Since the Republican and large multi-national corporations are married do you think that they give a shit about jobs.  If you work in any of these fields namely IT and manufacturing (including support,clerical and supervisory positions) all of you are at risk.  
View Quote

Free country. Business can do what it wants.

But your answer is what? More Gov't control over free enterprise?

[Gov't]

Here is what you can produce.
Here is where you must produce it.
Here is who you must hire.
Here is what you must pay them.
Here is the insurance you must carry.
Don't kill any fish.
Don't release any CO2.
Don't use too much water.

Now go make a profit so we can tax the shit out of you.

[/Gov't]

Link Posted: 1/3/2004 11:03:32 AM EDT
The Democrats couldn't stop the restructing of th economy, despite their campaign rhetoric.  If they say they can, they're lying.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 11:08:48 AM EDT
Troll alert.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 11:23:27 AM EDT
I guess that I got beat up and flamed pretty bad over this.  I am now being called a Troll?  I guess that we can sing the tunes of how great unrestrained capitalism is when we are all standing in the unemployment line with M.S. degrees because our labor is too expensive.  Thanks for all of your replies... I wish that there was a viable third party!

Link Posted: 1/3/2004 11:23:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By less_than_zero:


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....
????????????????????????????????////
View Quote


WTF is your problem?  You consider Tech support hi tech?  The job market changes, learn to change with it or get passed over.  The world, jobs, and economy is in constant change.  You can either learn to bitch or learn to deal with it.

Successful people learn to deal with it.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 11:31:42 AM EDT
How much have you had to drink today?

Have you taken up drugs?

Lack of blood to the brain?


Any one of the 9 dwarfs will be bad juju for the country.

Want to fight Al-Quada down the block from your house?

Bring rocks because they WILL take your weapons. Remember ,their mode of operation is to take everything from you so you'll HAVE TO DEPEND ON THEM FOR EVERYTHING.

Thus, they remain in power.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 11:32:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Originally Posted By less_than_zero:


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....
????????????????????????????????////
View Quote


WTF is your problem?  You consider Tech support hi tech?  The job market changes, learn to change with it or get passed over.  The world, jobs, and economy is in constant change.  You can either learn to bitch or learn to deal with it.

Successful people learn to deal with it.

Sgtar15
View Quote
Yep.

Link Posted: 1/3/2004 3:20:46 PM EDT
Jobs get exported mainly because taxes here are too high.  Dean will only raise taxes and accelerate the job loss here.  Cutting taxes and getting the able bodied off the welfare rolls will do more for this country than anything else.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 3:40:58 PM EDT
[img]http://www.georgewbush.com/images/downloads/GWB_logo_350.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 4:32:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2004 4:59:19 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Sorry, but political action will not bring back low-end jobs in manufacturing and tech to the USA...

The reason 'the companies have our blessing' is because we know that the only way for them to compete is to cut costs, which is not possible when you have a job that's worth [b]$5/day[/b] that you have to pay [b]$18/hr[/b] to keep in the USA.

We built our manufacturing 'might' on the same thing the 3rd-worlders are: cheap labor and a willing workforce. Right now we have neither.

Since we can't keep the labor here, we have a choice between loosing the bottom end of our economy, or loosing it all as we fight the rest of the world's progress.

The US will allways have service and construction industries, as well as a modicum of national security critical or economically unexportable manufacturing...

However, all low-skill/no-skill production jobs (this includes production computer programming (As opposed to Software Engineering, i.e. computer program design. They are 2 different fields) and call-center), as well as the levels of managment that directly supervise them will be gone within the next 10 years. Fact of life, unchangable, get used to it...

[b]If you don't work a position that is either (a) upper management, or (b) requires direct, regular in-person contact with people in the USA, (c) in an industry where the products are economically unfeasable to produce overseas, or (d) in an industry that is critical to the national security of the USA, and thus required by the Govt to produce here, YOU WILL BE OUT A JOB, WITHIN A DECADE. AND THERE'S NOTHING THE GOVT CAN DO ABOUT IT WITHOUT DESTROYING THE ECONOMY![/b]

Bush tried the tarrif route, and then rescinded the terrifs after our trade partners threatened to respond in kind, which would be a disaster for the economy...

All of the above is NO REASON to support a TAX RASING (he's promised to do it), ANTI-GUN (pro 'no-private-sale', in addition to the AWB), ISOLATIONIST SOCIALIST!

And that doesn't even consider his health care agenda. He's back to Hillarycare, which will of course translate to 4-9mo waiting lists for medical care, and all the other horrors of socialized medicine that are visible in Canada, Britain, and mainland Europe...

And then there's the fact that all 9 Dem candidates have yet to exhibit more maturity than your average 12yo, as they treat the election like a schoolyard 'bush-sucks-so-bad' joke contest... Apart from raising taxes, running out of Iraq like a scalded dog, and instituting Hillarycare, they have come up with no policy positions whatsoever...

BUSH-CHENEY 04. Because they're the only SANE choice...

Now excuse me, I have a Cowboys game to watch...

P.S.

If you think I'm kidding or crazy WRT the economics, think of this:

What good is it if we have thousands of manufacturing jobs, and no one to purchase the products?

I mean, sure govt can force companies to keep production here through various means...

But all of these means will either (a) raise prices of US produced goods, or (b) close foreign markets to US produced goods!!!!

This means that all the 'jobs' kept home will VANISH INTO THIN AIR as a result of layoffs due to excess capacity.

Modern technology has made production so efficient that US companies cannot maintain employment if they only serve domestic customers with domestic production. Even if all of the products used here were made here, the number of additional employees required to do this would be minimal (possibly even less) compared to the present globalized economy, as either (a) companies would be forced to automate or increase productivity to compensate for the cost of American labor, or (b) consumers would be forced to buy less due to higher prices, thus requiring less production and less labor.

Either way, government tampering with the job market, or any other form of protectionisim is an express ticket to recession. Think about it....
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 5:26:05 PM EDT
Anyone???

Anyone???

Or is this topic now dead???
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 6:39:07 PM EDT
DAVE_A: Thank you for such a rational explaination without resorting to a personal attack.  Very well put and you are to be commended for you indepth level of knowledge.  This was the kind of opinion and explaination that I was hoping for.  It just seems Un-American to not be able to buy goods that say MADE IN THE USA!  This topic is dead and it is very doubtfull that I will vote Democrat. I just wanted to see what the general consensus was on this issue.  Thanks for some of the thoughtful posts.

Link Posted: 1/3/2004 6:53:58 PM EDT
Personally I think gridlock works best. A Democratic president with a Republican congress helps keep things in check. Remember "Checks & Balances"?

Bush has gone too far with corruption on awarding contracts and favortism. Plus Congress lets him get away with it.

I believe Dean would be one of the least effective presidents since Carter.(That is a good thing!)
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:07:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SS109:

Bush has gone too far with corruption on awarding contracts and favortism. Plus Congress lets him get away with it.

View Quote


Please elaborate on which contracts Bush awarded to whom.  If you are talking about Kellogg Brown & Root, guess again.  It was NOT Bush that awarded the contract.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 7:24:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By SS109:

Bush has gone too far with corruption on awarding contracts and favortism. Plus Congress lets him get away with it.

View Quote


Please elaborate on which contracts Bush awarded to whom.  If you are talking about Kellogg Brown & Root, guess again.  It was NOT Bush that awarded the contract.
View Quote


And if you're talking about Halliburton, Clinton awarded them a no-bid contract for work in the Balkans.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 9:05:38 PM EDT
SS109:

A) Haliburton (the company who's contract most cite as 'favoritisim') is a very large, and very capable company. They do some things very well (like re-build damaged oilfields) that not many companies do. It's more a case of Bush & his team having done business with very successfull companies in the past, no more...

If the President had been a promenent investor in Microsoft, would you call it favoritisim if the DoD bought a large number of copies of Microsoft Windows? Same thing here, but with oil, not software...

B) The Haliburton contract was an extension of an existing deal from the Clinton era, done for expediency (Hey, we need this NOW. They can supply it, and they allready won a contract for it). The contract is now up for grabs again, on a level playing field, now that the expediency is out of the way...

C) The only real 'favoritisim' is the restriction of refusnik countries from the bidding process, and a preference for American contrcators... Frankly, I'd be disappointed if any president didn't play favorites with US companies...
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