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Posted: 5/6/2001 5:09:23 PM EST
Well the good old city of Toledo owes me almost 1000.00.....Thanks Carty...now what to get???? I'm looking at a Carbon 15. Web site says many improvements since the earlier models. Anyone have any opinions on this model? Thanks Also looking for a Imbel receiver for a FAL. Rick
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:18:14 PM EST
Just shot my type 20 for the first time today. It spit 500 rnds of WOLF w/ 1 misfeed. They highly reccomend not using wolf in their rifles, but it was all I had laying around and I wanted to try it out. I like mine. It had some recoil. I was surprised. It also seemed pretty accurate. If I had a grand I'd probably spend it on a pre-ban though. Some guy has a type 97 on the board for 700 if you really want one though.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:18:17 PM EST
Let me save you some time and energy... DON'T GET IT, THEY DON'T HAVE THEM DIALED-IN YET. I won't tell the story again (no offense, do a search). Cool concept, poor execution. Get an LEGP and trick it out instead.. Good luck
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:18:29 PM EST
I don't have one but CDN has them for a good price in the flyer I got last week
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:22:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By GeneStoner: Let me save you some time and energy... DON'T GET IT, THEY DON'T HAVE THEM DIALED-IN YET. I won't tell the story again (no offense, do a search). Cool concept, poor execution. Get an LEGP and trick it out instead.. Good luck
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My sentiments exactly. When they get it right, the whole AR world will know. I f you want a l/w AR that actually functions, buy one of the Cavalry Arms polymer lowers for 285 complete, and put a Bushmaster l/w barreled(yes, they do have them now) upper on it. $900 bucks or so, and you will have a lightweight, REAL 5.56 combat weapon, not a toy that was realsed from the factory before they worked out all of it's issues. Do a search on the board. The ones that work well or consistantly are the rare ones. Juggernaut
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:23:49 PM EST
I hear they are planning on a .308 version. One, why would you want a 3.5lb .308? Two, how do they plan to solve the problems they have with the .223 well enough to handle a .308?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:25:42 PM EST
Actually I like the 97s model. If I get the legp I wouldn't want to shoot it. I had several limited editions Colt Ohio State Patrol .357 that sat around for years. Finally dumped them. I see some people have trouble with them but it has to more than that. Ammo can cause alot of troubles. Need to get something before this cash burns a hole in my pocket. Rick
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:31:51 PM EST
my thoughts would be to buy an ar, a real ar. there are really not many options and accs. for the carbon rifle an i personally dont believe that they would have the life expectancy of a real ar. you can buy many post ban models for around 700. that would leave you enough to buy the recvr. remember its nice to own something you can actually get parts for, and work on youself, like a old car!
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:35:53 PM EST
I have a Carbon 15 Type 97 and I love it. I fortunately have not had all of the problems that others have had. I would recomend it.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:38:19 PM EST
I have two very knowledgeable friends (real 'RKIs' if you know what that terms means from 'Raffica'), who both [b]used[/b] to own Carbon 15 ARs. Why complicate an anvil? Get an LEGP or get a pre-ban, Bushy is probably available for a grand. Maybe? Eric The('Reasonably Knowledgeable Individual')Hun
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:53:51 PM EST
Amazing how many AR variants there are. Some guys pump it up until it is over 13lbs and other guys want the 3.5lb. I too have heard bad things about the carbons, but I can understand a heart desire. My gun dealer was selling carbon AR pistols for $600. I sold better guns as fast as I could to obtain it, and he was sold out when I had the cash. Bummer at first, but on second thought, I bought a better gun with the cash.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:19:44 PM EST
They had problems with the older models and they were mostly with the pistols. I haven't had one problem with mine. It never jams with the cheap south african ammo. Put you a red dot sight on it and have fun. The stock comes right off with a little lever and you can hold it just like a pistol. Mine shoot great, and my friends does too. My friend never cleans his and has put over 1500rnds through it with out any problems...Get you one of them, just remember that is isn't a toy, you will see what I mean when you shoot it...have fun
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:32:47 PM EST
I have a 97 and love mine.1040 ronds of PMC not one problem.Broke a extractor on 1041 with the first shot of wolf steel cased ammo.Great customer service the mailed me a extractor next dat and got it in three.they changed the bolt and something else.I think most of there problems are behind them now.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:36:08 PM EST
from personal experience DON'T DO IT!
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:45:53 PM EST
CDNN lists three models; type 19, 20, and 97. Anyone know what the differences are? The type 19 was cheapest at $599.99.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 7:19:23 PM EST
Out of all you guys that say they suck, how many of you have owned and shot one? I blasted the sh*t out of mine today and it worked fine. And that was with WOLF AMMO. Actually less initial problems than most AR's I have owned or currently own. Besides that, even IF they do wear out at an accellorated rate who cares? They carry a factory lifetime warranty for replacement.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:52:50 PM EST
I've got a Carbon 15 Pistol and love it. I shot it again this weekend with a Ceiner 22lr unit and it worked great (see my PO post on the Professional Ordnance section). While I love mine and have not had any problems with it I would only recomend it as a 2nd (or 3rd) AR. Get the real thing first.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 9:13:38 PM EST
I am a FORMER owner and shooter of a CARBON-15 type 21 rifle. I only kept this gun for about a month...I had a real hard-on for a CAR-15 till I owned one. Then after shooting it, I gradually lost faith in the gun. It was fine for about 2 or 3 30-round mags of good brass fmj ammo, but not long afterwards the troubles began...LOOK for the post: " Just got back from the range today & losing faith in my AR's " It's a large discussion with 100+ replies and a ton of good suggestions... IMHO The CAR-15 is a really neat gun to show off to friends & put on a scale, but NOT a gun I would ever trust. My CAR-15 had trouble ejecting spent cases and jammed 4 or 5 times per mag. Also, due to the guns ultra-light weight and extremely narrow buttstock, every shot feels like a sharp jab with a broomstick. Also, the factory muzzle brakes suck too...I made my own brake in the machine shop at work out of a piece of stainless barstock and it worked 10 times better than the original, believe it or not...Just too bad the gun jammed all the time... After this gun failed me so many times, I had no choice but to trade it on other stuff (new 16" Olympic + a used Ruger GP100 .357mag) Also picked up a new 7.62x39 MAK-90 AK-47 with a milled receiver.(traded unreliable Romanian SAR-3 .223 AK) Absolutely, the MOST important thing to me is a guns reliability. It MUST fire EVERY time I squeeze the trigger no matter what. It doesn't matter how sweet a gun looks if it doesn't shoot reliably. PERIOD [sniper]
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 9:23:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By SNIPERm88: I hear they are planning on a .308 version. One, why would you want a 3.5lb .308? Two, how do they plan to solve the problems they have with the .223 well enough to handle a .308?
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See page 27 in the April 2 issue of Shotgun news... 1/2 page Ad says: "Order any 7.62x39 model Carbon-15 rifle or pistol by 7/31/01 and get 1000 rounds of Wolf ammo FREE..."
Link Posted: 5/16/2001 9:31:36 AM EST
Get a pre-ban AR
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 9:38:28 AM EST
I took delivery of a 97s rifle a month ago and it is the most impressive assault rifle i have ever seen, and i've seen them all. ( I know, it sounds like I have some stock in the company but I don't ). I bought my first ar15 in 1974 (I still have it and 2 Bushies, 2 AK's etc. etc.) and have fired most civie aw's, including all of the militarys, in other words I am not a newbie. I have ran over 1500 rds thru the 97s with several types of mags with out a problem. I am just getting ready to clean it. I tried both m855 and m193: S+B, Spannish, IMI, Norinco, Winchester, Wolf and my reloads. All brands gave under 2" groups at 100yds and several were around 1". The construction, attention to detail and smoothness are second to none. The carbon fiber shows no signs of even break in wear yet. It's light weight and self lubrication in conjunction with the stainless steel and hard chrome parts make it the lowest maintence construction I've seen. You have to hold one in your hands to believe how light it is. The full lenght scout rail with a2 sights will give one all the versitilty they need. I installed a Hakko red dot and the height is perfect for a normal cheek weld. Target acquisition speed with both eyes open and the weapons light weight is almost unfair. The quick disconnect comp seems to work well because follow up shots are right there. My serial # is in the 5200 range and is the first one sold with the new vented hand guard design option which I recomend. If they had any teething problems with the design they have solved them. People having ?'s should call Ron, the service manager. He builds, tests and services the weapons. The factory dosen't suggest not using a certain brand of ammo, in fact Ron uses Wolf at the test range quite often. The chamber is pollished to nato specs. By the way, Ron is as nice and helpful a person as you would ever find at a factory. I have not had to use it but I have no trouble believing the posts about PO's customer service. The trigger on mine is just what I want for an assault rifle, about 5lbs, crisp with no creep. The only thing I wish it had was a collapsable stock but no one can do anything about that. The end of the stock is kind of narrow but you can install a rubber recoil pad. I have so much fun shooting it that I don't even notice the "end of a broom stick poking you in the shoulder" as one post put it. The stock comes off in about 3 seconds giving you a oal of 28" if you need it. It comes with a Hogue grip which I hadn't tried before but will be purchasing for my other ar's. In my opinion, the 97s is the lightest, most versatile assault rifle you can buy. When you compare the features nothing comes close. If I didn't already have 2 AK's I would buy one in 7.62x39. Don't let early versions problems scare you off, M16's took awhile to perfect also. wbear
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 1:29:43 PM EST
wbear, That was a nice detailed post. Two questions: 1) How good is the parts interchangeability between the Carbon 15 type 97 and other AR-15 rifles? 2) Since this rifle is lighter, how much harder is the recoil?
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 2:41:06 PM EST
Lower parts interchange With AR15.Upper parts are exclusive to carbon 15.Upper will not fit on a ar and ar upper will not fit on carbon 15.
Link Posted: 5/17/2001 2:46:02 PM EST
I own a type 97... thing hasn't worked right yet. FTF, FTE...no matter what I put through it. Their customer service was first rate, and it took just over a week for them to replace the bolt that snapped in two. That was @ 6 months ago. Now I have to send it back again as the gas tube somehow got bent when I went to sight in my reflex. I've never even heard of that happening before... has anyone else experienced this type of failure? I dunno... I love the concept, and I'll give it one more shot, but I cannot honestly recommend one, not till they work the bugs out. My $.02
Link Posted: 5/18/2001 12:01:11 PM EST
Ckapsl, Like Armalite Fan said all the fire control parts interchange and most of the other lower ones except for the buffer and buffer tube. As expected a lighter gun has more recoil but it is not excessive and the muzzel does not climb. Believe me the lighter handling qualitys outweigh any increase in recoil and after all it's only a .223. I don't think it's greater than a AK47 and it enables the 97s to bump fire easily. PO is currently working on a special upper that will fit on any AR lower and will be sold alone. wbear
Link Posted: 5/19/2001 2:25:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARs4EVER: Well the good old city of Toledo owes me almost 1000.00.....Thanks Carty...now what to get???? I'm looking at a Carbon 15. Web site says many improvements since the earlier models. Anyone have any opinions on this model? Thanks Also looking for a Imbel receiver for a FAL. Rick
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Rick I have had great luck with their products. I am in AZ the home of Professional Ordnance, I have an apointment to visit the factory this coming Monday. I will give you a report of what I learn! The best I can tell you is a lot of people slam them, however it seems to be that way when new products (firearms) come out and it takes a while for the Mfg. to work out the bugs. As to my favorate model ...The Type 97S rules!! Jack B.
Link Posted: 5/19/2001 2:32:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By RYANG: I own a type 97... thing hasn't worked right yet. FTF, FTE...no matter what I put through it. Their customer service was first rate, and it took just over a week for them to replace the bolt that snapped in two. That was @ 6 months ago. Now I have to send it back again as the gas tube somehow got bent when I went to sight in my reflex. I've never even heard of that happening before... has anyone else experienced this type of failure? I dunno... I love the concept, and I'll give it one more shot, but I cannot honestly recommend one, not till they work the bugs out. My $.02
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You can read about their great serive they will repair it at no chage , why not stop crying the same story and let them fix it, and get over it!
Link Posted: 5/19/2001 2:33:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Juggernaut:
Originally Posted By GeneStoner: Let me save you some time and energy... DON'T GET IT, THEY DON'T HAVE THEM DIALED-IN YET. I won't tell the story again (no offense, do a search). Cool concept, poor execution. Get an LEGP and trick it out instead.. Good luck
View Quote
My sentiments exactly. When they get it right, the whole AR world will know. I f you want a l/w AR that actually functions, buy one of the Cavalry Arms polymer lowers for 285 complete, and put a Bushmaster l/w barreled(yes, they do have them now) upper on it. $900 bucks or so, and you will have a lightweight, REAL 5.56 combat weapon, not a toy that was realsed from the factory before they worked out all of it's issues. Do a search on the board. The ones that work well or consistantly are the rare ones. Juggernaut
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Yeah' juggernaut....just like Colt did right....get a life.
Link Posted: 5/19/2001 3:30:37 PM EST
ars4ever: I've been reading post of people having problems.
Link Posted: 6/3/2001 10:37:46 AM EST
Jack B, how many failures does your new gun have to have before you think it's a POS? I have had nothing but problems with mine... tell you what, since I'll be sending mine in for the third time, when I get it back, I'll trade you for one of your "perfect 97's". Or I'll trade you for a bushmaster shorty w/AK brake, if you got one lying around. BANG, BANG...$*^#!$ (back to the shop) is not my idea of how a $1000 Rifle should operate. Who the f*ck cares how good their customer service is? If the thing won't function after 2 trips back, something is FUNDAMENTALY wrong with the unit.
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