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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:44:06 AM EDT
Update 3-12-2011 I have been busy and finally put everything back together. I have a few questions, the first involves this metal bracket, I cannot figure out where it goes! Does anyone have any idea?  THe second is the vacuum systems I have everything (I think) hooked back up but there is this one small orifice on this thing that has no hose to it. I can not remember if there was a hose to this and if there was where does it go? This is on the right side of the engine as viewed from the drivers side.   Please don't ask about the blue. Older stuff: k1500 5.7 4wd. I was told it was two, but someone told me that there are two upstream and two downstream? IF so, are all four the same type of sensor? Thanks! |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:47:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Also I have two catalytic converters right? I see two when I work under my car but the same person said that I only have one.
Are my eyes lying to me?
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:49:43 AM EDT
[#2]
2 convertors, 4 O2 sensors. The downstream ones are heated not sure about the upsteam ones.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:50:00 AM EDT
[#3]
It should have 4 but don't quote me on that... |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:50:38 AM EDT
[#4]
I concur with 4. One on each downpipe, and one at each cat
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:52:16 AM EDT
[#5]
rockauto.com, they'll tell you how many it should have.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:56:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: I concur with 4. One on each downpipe, and one at each cat ...or pre and post cat on each side. I'm pretty sure they started this in 1996. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:58:35 AM EDT
[#7]
I need two heated and two non heated?
This is going to get pricy.... Never should have driven around with the check engine light on for 10,000 miles.... |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 10:59:29 AM EDT
[#8]
there is 4
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:00:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: 1996 k1500 5.7 4wd. I was told it was two, but someone told me that there are two upstream and two downstream? IF so, are all four the same type of sensor? Thanks! 4. The downstream ones (bank 1 sensor 2, bank 2 sensor 2) only check to see if the cats are working, and have no impact on engine operation. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:00:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I need two heated and two non heated? This is going to get pricy.... Never should have driven around with the check engine light on for 10,000 miles.... All 4 should be heated on that one. If it has 4 wires it is a heated sensor, and why do you plan on replacing all of them? |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:00:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Why does it need to know what bolt pattern my transmission is? There is 14 inches of snow on the ground, I don't want to crawl around under there and look. I think I have a 16 bolt pattern on my pan.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:01:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I need two heated and two non heated? This is going to get pricy.... Never should have driven around with the check engine light on for 10,000 miles.... You don't need to replace all 4. Just the ones the codes are up for... It will tell you EXACTLY which sensors are bad. Ex 'HO2S Bank 1 Sensor 2 Low Voltage' = post-cat sensor, driver's side. The post-cat sensors are pretty well useless for anything but measuring the efficiency of the cats... The pre-cat ones are critical to proper vehicle operation. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:01:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Be sure to know if it's a CA emmissions vehicle or not...
My '99 4Runner initially purchased in VA was a CA emmissions vehicle. A little research dug up the fact that in '99, about half of the production run was made to CA specs regardless of destination. It made my sensors much more expensive to replace. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:02:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
1996 k1500
5.7 4wd. I was told it was two, but someone told me that there are two upstream and two downstream? IF so, are all four the same type of sensor? Thanks! 4. The downstream ones (bank 1 sensor 2, bank 2 sensor 2) only check to see if the cats are working, and have no impact on engine operation. For the most part that is correct, but some vehicle's use the downstream for long term fuel adaptation.The case of the op's vehicle it does not apply. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:03:18 AM EDT
[#15]
So you think I only need two upstream?
I really want my engine light to go off. I keep resetting it and then it goes back on. The codes are always for the o2 sensors. I local service center quoted me at over a thousand dollars to replace all the catalytic converters and the o2 sensors.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:04:25 AM EDT
[#16]
THe car was purchased NEW in California back in 1996.
Does that make a difference? I will go down and run the codes again. back in a sec.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:04:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
So you think I only need two upstream? I really want my engine light to go off. I keep resetting it and then it goes back on. The codes are always for the o2 sensors. I local service center quoted me at over a thousand dollars to replace all the catalytic converters and the o2 sensors. What is the codes exactly op I can help you out a little here. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:06:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
So you think I only need two upstream? I really want my engine light to go off. I keep resetting it and then it goes back on. The codes are always for the o2 sensors. I local service center quoted me at over a thousand dollars to replace all the catalytic converters and the o2 sensors. Please don't replace everything. If you can pull the code its fairly easy to decipher. Most auto parts stores will do it for you for free or you can pick up a cheapy Actron code reader and read it yourself. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:07:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
THe car was purchased NEW in California back in 1996. Does that make a difference? I will go down and run the codes again. back in a sec. Big time... The emmission systems on a given model can be fairly different between CA and non CA vehicles. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:08:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Going to pull codes now.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:18:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Here are the codes
P0305 P0135 P0160 Then if I reset I will get (after the reset ) P0300 After five minutes all the previous three join in. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:19:43 AM EDT
[#22]
I also have had terrible gas mileage recently, (less then 10) when I am use to getting close to twenty with my driving habits.
There is also a very dark black soot coming out of the exhaust and will leave a mark on pavement. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:23:42 AM EDT
[#23]
O2 sensors are probably ok-you have other issues.
PO300 is random misfire and 305 is cylinder 5 misfire.The O2 sensors react to what's coming thru the exhaust-a vacuum leak will cause O2 sensor codes as well,but that doesn't mean they are bad. How are the plugs?ETA-tune up in general?? |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:26:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Spark plugs are new.
I have really sooty exhaust. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:26:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Car is in great shape. I baby the suburban.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:27:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Do you have a scanner that shows data or just a code reader?
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:28:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Don't have the codes but the black soot is telling you the 02 sensors pre-cat are done and the computer is dumping extra fuel to keep the motor from melting down by running lean. This does bad things to your cats, even an aftermarket set is 400$ for it.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:28:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Just code reader. Same results I get if I use a friends scanner.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:29:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Here are the codes P0305 P0135 P0160 Then if I reset I will get (after the reset ) P0300 After five minutes all the previous three join in. 300, 305, and 135 are misfire codes. 300 is general misfire. 305 is misfire on cylinder 5. 135 is O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 1. 160 is an O2 sensor, bank 2 sensor 2. Check your plug wire and plug on cylinder 5, and replace those two O2 sensors. You can skip the 0160 sensor but without it the CEL will still come on and you'll fail inspection when the time comes. ETA: Of course check the sensors and exhaust before replacing them. An exhaust leak post-cat can lead to 0160. A broken wire or disconnected plug can lead to 0135. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:29:12 AM EDT
[#30]
That is why I was thinking I need two new cats ($100 each plus welding) and two new O2 sensors.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:31:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Quoted: Here are the codes P0305 P0135 P0160 Then if I reset I will get (after the reset ) P0300 After five minutes all the previous three join in. 300, 305, and 135 are misfire codes. 300 is general misfire. 305 is misfire on cylinder 5. 135 is O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 1. 160 is an O2 sensor, bank 2 sensor 2. Check your plug wire and plug on cylinder 5, and replace those two O2 sensors. You can skip the 0160 sensor but without it the CEL will still come on and you'll fail inspection when the time comes. Everything in the ignition system is new! Less then two months old. Checked all wires. Car runs fine when at speed. All plugs are clean and gapped correctly. I took them out before as I thought that that was my issue.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here are the codes P0305 P0135 P0160 Then if I reset I will get (after the reset ) P0300 After five minutes all the previous three join in. 300, 305, and 135 are misfire codes. 300 is general misfire. 305 is misfire on cylinder 5. 135 is O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 1. 160 is an O2 sensor, bank 2 sensor 2. Check your plug wire and plug on cylinder 5, and replace those two O2 sensors. You can skip the 0160 sensor but without it the CEL will still come on and you'll fail inspection when the time comes. Everything in the ignition system is new! Less then two months old. Checked all wires. Car runs fine when at speed. All plugs are clean and gapped correctly. I took them out before as I thought that that was my issue. Pull your oil dipstick, does it smell like it has fuel in it? Injector assemply's fail often on these, you can actually open the throttle body and stick a mecanics mirror down it, just above cylider 5 intake runner is the fuel pressure regulator, with the key in the on position you can see the fuel come out. Common to cause a PO300 and PO305 |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:34:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here are the codes P0305 P0135 P0160 Then if I reset I will get (after the reset ) P0300 After five minutes all the previous three join in. 300, 305, and 135 are misfire codes. 300 is general misfire. 305 is misfire on cylinder 5. 135 is O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 1. 160 is an O2 sensor, bank 2 sensor 2. Check your plug wire and plug on cylinder 5, and replace those two O2 sensors. You can skip the 0160 sensor but without it the CEL will still come on and you'll fail inspection when the time comes. Everything in the ignition system is new! Less then two months old. Checked all wires. Car runs fine when at speed. All plugs are clean and gapped correctly. I took them out before as I thought that that was my issue. Pull your oil dipstick, does it smell like it has fuel in it? I doubt it. Although I change my oil every two months. Let me go down and check. Back in a sec..... |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:35:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here are the codes P0305 P0135 P0160 Then if I reset I will get (after the reset ) P0300 After five minutes all the previous three join in. 300, 305, and 135 are misfire codes. 300 is general misfire. 305 is misfire on cylinder 5. 135 is O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 1. 160 is an O2 sensor, bank 2 sensor 2. Check your plug wire and plug on cylinder 5, and replace those two O2 sensors. You can skip the 0160 sensor but without it the CEL will still come on and you'll fail inspection when the time comes. Everything in the ignition system is new! Less then two months old. Checked all wires. Car runs fine when at speed. All plugs are clean and gapped correctly. I took them out before as I thought that that was my issue. If the misfire is intermittent enough (5 minutes to occur as you said) you probably won't notice it when driving. Clear the codes and swap the plug wire from cylinder 5 with one of the others. If you still get a 305, the wire is fine, so swap the plugs. New and gapped doesn't mean "not defective" ya know? If it still doesn't change the code, dig deeper.. 
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:38:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Injector assemply's fail often on these, you can actually open the throttle body and stick a mecanics mirror down it, just above cylider 5 intake runner is the fuel pressure regulator, with the key in the on position you can see the fuel come out. Common to cause a PO300 and PO305
also the popets on the injectors fail, GM came out with a multi pot injection conversion for these engines. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:40:13 AM EDT
[#36]
This is where a scan tool comes in handy, since you can watch the fuel trims to determine what is going on. Also if you look into the intake you will see where the intake runner will look nice and clean, it is also an indicator of a leaking injector assembly.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:42:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Does not smell like FUEL
I replaced the plugs and wires because of this issue. I have swapped plugs and wires and it is always # 5 Edit, Does not smell like fuel. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:43:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Spark plugs are new. I have really sooty exhaust. There are many things that could cause the engine to run rich and will NOT give you a code, a bad fuel pressure regulator is one. Take your ride to a mecanic and let them troubleshoot it before you change a bunch of expensive parts for no reason. Codes don't tell you what parts to change, only assist in trouble shooting process. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:46:51 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I know the cats have to be replaced and already ordered them. ($88.00 each including shipping (abused the coupon codes)) Quoted: Spark plugs are new. I have really sooty exhaust. There are many things that could cause the engine to run rich and will NOT give you a code, a bad fuel pressure regulator is one. Take your ride to a mecanic and let them troubleshoot it before you change a bunch of expensive parts for no reason. Codes don't tell you what parts to change, only assist in trouble shooting process. I assume I also need to replace the upstream O2 sensors, what is the best type to get at advance auto? |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:47:09 AM EDT
[#40]
4. Just replaced mine. 2 pre converter and 2 post converter.
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:47:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Does not smell like oil. I replaced the plugs and wires because of this issue. I have swapped plugs and wires and it is always # 5 I would highly suggest looking into the intake with a mirror or a bore scope. If the regulator is leaking it is best to replace the entire assembly with the updated one. You can pull the throttle body off or prop the gas pedal down and look into it. With the key on the fuel pressure will be around 55-65 PSI, If the regulator is leaking you will see it. It will also cause the plugs to turn black like you describe. The conversion part is about 4-5 hundred bucks. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:49:44 AM EDT
[#42]
The plugs look normal.
Are there any cheaper parts? |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:51:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know the cats have to be replaced and already ordered them. ($88.00 each including shipping (abused the coupon codes)) Quoted:
Spark plugs are new. I have really sooty exhaust. There are many things that could cause the engine to run rich and will NOT give you a code, a bad fuel pressure regulator is one. Take your ride to a mecanic and let them troubleshoot it before you change a bunch of expensive parts for no reason. Codes don't tell you what parts to change, only assist in trouble shooting process. I assume I also need to replace the upstream O2 sensors, what is the best type to get at advance auto? If you don't fix the rich running condition first, you WILL overheat and ruin your new cats and then be out more $$. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:51:43 AM EDT
[#44]
You will find it a lot cheaper to take it to a competent tech and have it diagnosed, than to throw parts at it.
If you were local I would do it for free! 
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:54:35 AM EDT
[#45]
What is needed to fix the fuel pressure system?
If only this was a jet engine... Then I would know what to do. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 11:59:20 AM EDT
[#46]
It depends, but lets break it down. Three things can cause a misfire.
Fuel Spark Compression Fuel can be too much or too little - Injector not working/stuck open/partially blocked, Vac leak ect Spark can be KV leakage, high resistance ect Compression can be a number of different things. You know there is a misfire, so you need to find out what is causing it, once you narrow it down to one of those three you can start to pinpoint. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 12:00:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Is this what would be needed if I see leaks?
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-Kit-ACDelco_15730427-P_484_R|GRPFUELAMS_993288667___ |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 12:02:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: It depends, but lets break it down. Three things can cause a misfire. Fuel Spark Compression Fuel can be too much or too little - Injector not working/stuck open/partially blocked, Vac leak ect Spark can be KV leakage, high resistance ect Compression can be a number of different things. You know there is a misfire, so you need to find out what is causing it, once you narrow it down to one of those three you can start to pinpoint. Compression is fine. Spark is also fine. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 12:05:33 PM EDT
[#49]
You also might want to pull the suspected plug out and look for carbon traces or small black lines, cracked insulator.
The fact that you are throwing a random misfire tells me it is more likley fuel related. If fuel is dumping in one cylinder then the O2 picks up a rich condition, and begins to lean out all the cylinders, it is misfiring on number 5 but now you get a lean misfire on the rest of the cyliners causing a PO300. It can also cause that on a vac leak going to oposite way, but cylinder number 5 is you first target, something is causing a cyliner specific misfire. |
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Posted: 2/3/2011 12:07:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
What is needed to fix the fuel pressure system? If only this was a jet engine... Then I would know what to do. i fix jet engines also, if you have to ask all these questions you should know you are in over your head here. I sometimes go to a mechanic because I don't have the equipment to test this stuff even though i know how it all works. |
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