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Posted: 4/25/2014 3:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2014 4:04:00 PM EDT by flash556]
rare footage

Link Posted: 4/25/2014 4:38:54 PM EDT
Roling slowly across the plain in a tinbox light tank straight at a line of 88's must have been unpleasant.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 4:56:16 PM EDT
Viruses and Protozoa hurt Rommel as much as the allies.



Likely the deciding factor.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 4:57:31 PM EDT
Field Marshal Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel was a brilliant tactician when it came to armored warfare. His use of minefields patterned to funnel his foes into compact killing fields for his 88mm anti-tank guns was wickedly affective. Similarly equipped and provisioned, I believe the man was far more capable on the battlefield then Patton.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:01:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Abbaton:
Field Marshal Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel was a brilliant tactician when it came to armored warfare. His use of minefields patterned to funnel his foes into compact killing fields for his 88mm anti-tank guns was wickedly affective. Similarly equipped and provisioned, I believe the man was far more capable on the battlefield then Patton.
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No just leave
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:05:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2014 5:06:16 PM EDT by beardog30]
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Originally Posted By Abbaton:
Field Marshal Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel was a brilliant tactician when it came to armored warfare. His use of minefields patterned to funnel his foes into compact killing fields for his 88mm anti-tank guns was wickedly affective. Similarly equipped and provisioned, I believe the man was far more capable on the battlefield then Patton.
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The Germans in general were excellent at using this tactic.  Not just on the Africa front.  People forget that the German's tanks were inferior to many of the early soviet tanks.  What the Germans were was decades ahead in combined arms and maneuver warfare.  While the Russians were busy trying to engage the German's faster tanks self propelled guns and AT guns were able to get in position and take out the heavy tanks.    

The Panzer III maneuvering while the Stug took the kill shot was a lethal combination.

Not so sure about the Patton part.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:29:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:40:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By beardog30:The Germans in general were excellent at using this tactic.  Not just on the Africa front.  People forget that the German's tanks were inferior to many of the early soviet tanks
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Originally Posted By beardog30:The Germans in general were excellent at using this tactic.  Not just on the Africa front.  People forget that the German's tanks were inferior to many of the early soviet tanks


Yes, the T34, with her sloped armor and speed was a rather rude awakening to the Germans. They quickly learned from the encounter and hence the Panther came to be. The best known Russian tank of WWII was decidedly at a disadvantage when it came to being in the sights of a KWK 88 though.

Originally Posted By beardog30:What the Germans were was decades ahead in combined arms and maneuver warfare.  While the Russians were busy trying to engage the German's faster tanks self propelled guns and AT guns were able to get in position and take out the heavy tanks.
   

Fire and maneuver on a fluid battlefield is the key to victory. Remaining in a static position for too long is not conducive to a long life for sure.

Originally Posted By beardog30:Not so sure about the Patton part.


I may be a wee bit biased due to my Teutonic ancestry , but my opinion still stands.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:50:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2014 5:53:28 PM EDT by beardog30]
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Originally Posted By Abbaton:


Yes, the T34, with her sloped armor and speed was a rather rude awakening to the Germans. They quickly learned from the encounter and hence the Panther came to be. The best known Russian tank of WWII was decidedly at a disadvantage when it came to being in the sights of a KWK 88 though.

   

Fire and maneuver on a fluid battlefield is the key to victory. Remaining in a static position for too long is not conducive to a long life for sure.



I may be a wee bit biased due to my Teutonic ancestry , but my opinion still stands.
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Originally Posted By Abbaton:
Originally Posted By beardog30:The Germans in general were excellent at using this tactic.  Not just on the Africa front.  People forget that the German's tanks were inferior to many of the early soviet tanks


Yes, the T34, with her sloped armor and speed was a rather rude awakening to the Germans. They quickly learned from the encounter and hence the Panther came to be. The best known Russian tank of WWII was decidedly at a disadvantage when it came to being in the sights of a KWK 88 though.

Originally Posted By beardog30:What the Germans were was decades ahead in combined arms and maneuver warfare.  While the Russians were busy trying to engage the German's faster tanks self propelled guns and AT guns were able to get in position and take out the heavy tanks.
   

Fire and maneuver on a fluid battlefield is the key to victory. Remaining in a static position for too long is not conducive to a long life for sure.

Originally Posted By beardog30:Not so sure about the Patton part.


I may be a wee bit biased due to my Teutonic ancestry , but my opinion still stands.

Germans would have been better off fielding the Panzer IV backed by Stugs and Nashorns.  Panzer was rushed into service and not an effective use of resources.  

Rommel reminds me of Lee.  While effective he sometimes overreached his capabilities.  Patton always understood his capabilities.  He was the master of applying history to practical battlefield use.  Rommel was the superior battlefield tactician  but Patton was the superior leader.  Patton knew how to see the entire picture and put the men that were the best for the job in the right position.

Being the superior battlefield tactician doesn't mean a hill of beans when the guy across from you can draw on knowledge of an equally skilled tactician and put that knowledge to better use.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 6:27:00 PM EDT
I thought the Germans were trying to bail out the Italians....
not a ww2 scholar
Link Posted: 4/27/2014 5:27:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By beardog30:

Germans would have been better off fielding the Panzer IV backed by Stugs and Nashorns.  Panzer was rushed into service and not an effective use of resources.  

Rommel reminds me of Lee.  While effective he sometimes overreached his capabilities.  Patton always understood his capabilities.  He was the master of applying history to practical battlefield use.  Rommel was the superior battlefield tactician  but Patton was the superior leader.  Patton knew how to see the entire picture and put the men that were the best for the job in the right position.

Being the superior battlefield tactician doesn't mean a hill of beans when the guy across from you can draw on knowledge of an equally skilled tactician and put that knowledge to better use.
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Abbaton:
Originally Posted By beardog30:The Germans in general were excellent at using this tactic.  Not just on the Africa front.  People forget that the German's tanks were inferior to many of the early soviet tanks


Yes, the T34, with her sloped armor and speed was a rather rude awakening to the Germans. They quickly learned from the encounter and hence the Panther came to be. The best known Russian tank of WWII was decidedly at a disadvantage when it came to being in the sights of a KWK 88 though.

Originally Posted By beardog30:What the Germans were was decades ahead in combined arms and maneuver warfare.  While the Russians were busy trying to engage the German's faster tanks self propelled guns and AT guns were able to get in position and take out the heavy tanks.
   

Fire and maneuver on a fluid battlefield is the key to victory. Remaining in a static position for too long is not conducive to a long life for sure.

Originally Posted By beardog30:Not so sure about the Patton part.


I may be a wee bit biased due to my Teutonic ancestry , but my opinion still stands.

Germans would have been better off fielding the Panzer IV backed by Stugs and Nashorns.  Panzer was rushed into service and not an effective use of resources.  

Rommel reminds me of Lee.  While effective he sometimes overreached his capabilities.  Patton always understood his capabilities.  He was the master of applying history to practical battlefield use.  Rommel was the superior battlefield tactician  but Patton was the superior leader.  Patton knew how to see the entire picture and put the men that were the best for the job in the right position.

Being the superior battlefield tactician doesn't mean a hill of beans when the guy across from you can draw on knowledge of an equally skilled tactician and put that knowledge to better use.


IIRC, the comment by Gen. Patton about Gen. Rommel was "I read his book, and unlike him I actually understood it."
Link Posted: 4/27/2014 5:33:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Viruses and Protozoa hurt Rommel as much as the allies.

Likely the deciding factor.
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Code breakers that allowed the RN to sink the supply convoys.
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