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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/14/2004 5:02:23 AM EST
In the first two weeks of school there have been two relatively serious accidents involving young drivers that I have seen in my small town of 5500 people. These two are just the ones that I have personally seen, not the ones in the paper.

The first one involved a young driver turning left in front of an SUV. The SUV swerved to avoid hitting the teen, but put the SUV through a fence, just missing going off a bridge, but still ending up dunking it in the canal. The gal crawled out of the rear window to escape.

Yesterday, at lunch, a teen turned left in front of a near 60yr old driver of a 4-wheeler heading back to work at the local True Value store. Santa(that is what he looks like) hit the windshield of the car and came up cussing at the teen. Both car and 4 digger looked toasted.


Lesson learned.....teens shouldn't be allowed to turn left.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:18:42 AM EST
Teens should not be allowed to drive. Period.

Walk to fucking school or ride the bus.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:20:26 AM EST
Refer to my previous post on the subject.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:22:46 AM EST
I don't think that age makes much of a difference in the accidents. every day i see in the paper dozens of accidents by people older than 18. I think they should make the testing harder to pass rather than raising the age limit. in the drivers test you should be required to score a 95 or above to pass, and the written test should be 100%
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:25:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Teens should not be allowed to drive. Period.

Walk to fucking school or ride the bus.



+5000

We pay for school buses already, and now we have to fork out more $$$ for larger parking lots so Johnny can drive his new birthday present to school? I don't think so.

18 is fine, and yes, people did survive without driving for millennia.

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:27:57 AM EST
Under 18? Over 70? Driving test every year.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:34:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:36:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By mrphelps:
Under 18? Over 70? Driving test every year.



I would agree with this. Not to slam anyone, but those are the ages when drivers are the most careless, either because they are to young to care, or to old to really be able to do it anymore.
I was informed the other that my 2nd child will be able to get her permit in less then 5 mths. I told her good luck, you can't get it without me. The first born, licensed to drive, already scares me to death and I rarely let her drive.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:37:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By mrphelps:
Under 18? Over 70? Driving test every year.



I'd settle for a LEGITIMATE driving test once every 5 (years)

Driving tests are a joke, I'm amazed the carnage on the roads isn't worse. If the Brady Bill biddies are looking for something worth digging their bony claws into, why don't they go after crummy drivers tests? Oh, they wouldn't be able to pass them. Never mind.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:40:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
I don't think that age makes much of a difference in the accidents.

i'm assuming you have not read the statistics.



no i haven't. but on a daily basis, in the entire country, who gets in more accidents? people under 18 or people over 18? experience would seem to be a better measure to determine what causes accidents. normally people over 18 have more experience than people under 18, but unfortunately the only way to become an experienced driver over the age of 18 is to be an under 18 inexperienced driver.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:53:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:
18 is fine, and yes, people did survive without driving for millennia.




True, but that was in an agrarian society, living in a village or town. In modern society, if you do not live in the city, you need a vehicle to function. When I am in school and working on the same day, I drive 70 miles each day, as a base minimum. You may tell me that I should take the bus to the local high school and work at the McDonalds, but I got a free education at the nearest Community College, and make lots more money driving truck than working in a fast food joint.

Thats right, my job is driving medium duty flat deck trucks. GVW 26000 and below. No accidents. I started this job a couple of days after my 17th birthday.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:58:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 10:03:14 AM EST by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Teens should not be allowed to drive. Period.

Walk to fucking school or ride the bus.



+5000

We pay for school buses already, and now we have to fork out more $$$ for larger parking lots so Johnny can drive his new birthday present to school? I don't think so.

18 is fine, and yes, people did survive without driving for millennia.




How do you propose they learn to drive at 18? How does it help to have 21 year olds who now only have three years on the road?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:11:17 AM EST

How do you propose they learn to drive at 18? How does it help to have 21 year olds who now only have three years on the road?


I honestly don't give a shit HOW they learn to drive... just that the PUBLIC HIGHWAY is NOT an ideal classroom. A person's LIFE is not worth a teen "learning" to drive... in a place where a failed lesson can kill me and my family. PERIOD.

My take on it:

If you're gonna let them drive. Give them ONE violation. ONE. No warnings or anything like that. One vilation and your done driving until you're 21.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:16:32 AM EST
In Iowa you dont get your full drivers license until you are 17. If you mess up between the time you get your permit and when you get your real license ... no driving until you are 18.

And, because that didnt go into effect until after I had my license.. I was all for it. Just like I am all for school uniforms and year round school :P
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:23:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 10:24:06 AM EST by jaqattack02]

Originally Posted By guns762:
In the first two weeks of school...



Just curious, what does school starting have to do with anything? If anything they drive less now then they did ALL SUMMER LONG because they are now sitting in school all day, 5 days a week. It's not like they just stop driving in summer. If anything, they drive more. I know I certainly did.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:31:21 AM EST
Well, here is what school has to do with it here, in other places YMMV.

This is a typical small town. 90% residential area. The street which I live on has the high school on one end and main street on the other.... about 10 blocks long. Main street has all the food places.

So imagine what it's like at lunch. I swear I've seen cars fly by here going 50+ mph. There's a small dip in the street right in front of my house and they ROUTINELY catch air off it Down narrow residential streets with kids playing.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:36:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:36:49 AM EST
Well, that would explain it then. I didn't think about the small town thing. In my case it's reasonably urban, with mulitiple schools in different areas, so the traffic gets pretty spread around. The morning traffic sucks now though. I've started having to leave 10 minutes earlier to avoid sitting in traffic. Oh well, happens every year when school starts.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:37:30 AM EST
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:41:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.



I agree for the most part. But remember, driving is a right :P
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:42:05 AM EST
Lefts are dangerous. I avoid them if possible.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:42:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By mrphelps:

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.



I agree for the most part. But remember, driving is a right :P




Exactly!!!! So are our guns!

They need to be educated, not have their licenses taken away.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:48:08 AM EST
so if you stop all the 16 and 17 year olds from driving, then in a few years the accident rates shift to have a higher % of accidents with 18 and 19 year olds driving....repeat a few times and the only people able to drive will be the old farts that keep driving into farmer's markets!



Let the damned kids drive, and focus on a better test. Make a drivers' ed course REQUIRED. Make that course actually MEAN SOMETHING.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:53:14 AM EST
We have required drivers ed here, but you learn almost nothing of value. I think they need to learn car control. Take kids out on the skid pad and make em fishtail till they can keep iot straight.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:57:25 AM EST

Make that course actually MEAN SOMETHING.


How do you do that exactly? These are teens we're talking about..... will the course cover how to cop a feel off the cheerleader riding with you while driving them home? Will it cover the MILLION other stupid things they do?

Thing is even if the classes DO cover that, what do YOU think the teen's thinking of with that cheerleader sittin' next to him?

Driving class?

or PIE?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:46:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By jaqattack02:

Originally Posted By guns762:
In the first two weeks of school...



Just curious, what does school starting have to do with anything? If anything they drive less now then they did ALL SUMMER LONG because they are now sitting in school all day, 5 days a week. It's not like they just stop driving in summer. If anything, they drive more. I know I certainly did.



It has to do with the goofyness of the kids; the fact that they only have 40min for lunch and they try to drive all over town to go to lunch and back in that time. They are in a hurry, usually have friends in the car distracting them, and are not paying attention.

Most of the accidents around here happen before school, at lunch, or on the way home.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:51:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.


Kids under 18 should have no rights except what their parents give them. Driving is not a right.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:53:15 AM EST
I don't know that I want all students=16-17yr olds not to be able to drive, but I do think they should have thier licenses taken away after their first mistake/ticket.

I would also like to see a law where there can be no other teenagers in the same car with a teenage driver unless they are related.

I agree not all kids are the same, but a majority of them are just too busy, and distracted by friends to pay attention to what they are doing, while driving.

My parents would not allow any friend of mine to ride with me untill I was 17, or me to ride with them. Maybe a dumb idea, but I have still not had an accident, and that was 17yrs ago.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:53:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.


Kids under 18 should have no rights except what their parents give them. Driving is not a right.




Ok, but then we just push the shitty driving problem to 18 yr olds. What then?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:57:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.


Kids under 18 should have no rights except what their parents give them. Driving is not a right.




Ok, but then we just push the shitty driving problem to 18 yr olds. What then?



It's not about shitty driving! It's about maturity! 18yr olds pay attention better than 16yr olds. Trust me on this. I work with them every day. There is a huge difference in maturity.

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 12:08:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By guns762:

I would also like to see a law where there can be no other teenagers in the same car with a teenage driver unless they are related.




I think washington has something like this for the first 6 months of their license. I heard my nephew saying something about it. He was driving with 4 other friends and told me if he was pulled over he'd get an $85 ticket for each passenger in the car that was not related to him.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 12:11:35 PM EST
Under 18?

Drug and driving test every 6 months... AT THEIR EXPENSE mind you...


Weed out the stoners...


- BUCC_Guy (Comin through with a pun, no less)
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 12:28:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Oh my God, Listen to some of you people!!!

LETS BAN THE KIDS FROM DRIVING!!!


LETS BAN THE ______ FROM _______!!!

THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! LETS TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY!!!

I've got news for you people that think like this:

There are just as many irresponsible 21 yr olds, and 25 yr olds as there are 17 yr olds.

Believe it or not, most of the 17 yrs olds i know have never had a ticket or been in an accident.


Kids under 18 should have no rights except what their parents give them. Driving is not a right.




Ok, but then we just push the shitty driving problem to 18 yr olds. What then?


Lock their asses away. At 18 they can go the big boy jail.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 12:35:17 PM EST
In the past 6 weeks we've lost 6 kids in the area, under 18, who had BAC .06 to .23. BTW, the .23 was a 14 year old on a moped.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 12:58:48 PM EST
Have all you mofos who think it's just dandy to hand over the keys to a car to a 16 year old, and then whine about how dangerous kids would be if they didn't drive until 18 EVER bothered to find out how driver licensing works in Germany?

WTF does Germany have to do with this? I'll tell you what. Germany is the only modern nation left with NO SPEED LIMIT on the majority of its freeways. Yet, incomprehensible to the average mouth breather American driver, their fatality rate per million miles traveled (the standard fatality yardstick worldwide) is better than the USA.

Face it. Driver education in this country is a joke. Along with that, it is a FACT that the great majority of teeanger either don't have the maturity necessary to be trusted with a car, or are so pathetically meek behind the wheel that they are a danger to everyone else eiher way.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:47:02 PM EST
Lets ban all the parents who have kids from driving because the kids can distract them and cause an accident. Your a fuckin assclown if you think teens shouldn't drive.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:48:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By paganswede:
Lets ban all the parents who have kids from driving because the kids can distract them and cause an accident. Your a fuckin assclown if you think teens shouldn't drive.



What are you? 16? Go back to mommy.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:51:23 PM EST
Hey why don't we ban all guns. OMG can you believe I said such a thing, how dare someone suggest infringing on a 2nd amendment right. If you want to talk about taking away the 4th amendment right of another minority group it's all right though. Damn hypocrite.


Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Under 18?

Drug and driving test every 6 months... AT THEIR EXPENSE mind you...


Weed out the stoners...


- BUCC_Guy (Comin through with a pun, no less)

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:53:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Have all you mofos who think it's just dandy to hand over the keys to a car to a 16 year old, and then whine about how dangerous kids would be if they didn't drive until 18 EVER bothered to find out how driver licensing works in Germany?

WTF does Germany have to do with this? I'll tell you what. Germany is the only modern nation left with NO SPEED LIMIT on the majority of its freeways. Yet, incomprehensible to the average mouth breather American driver, their fatality rate per million miles traveled (the standard fatality yardstick worldwide) is better than the USA.

Face it. Driver education in this country is a joke. Along with that, it is a FACT that the great majority of teeanger either don't have the maturity necessary to be trusted with a car, or are so pathetically meek behind the wheel that they are a danger to everyone else eiher way.



there is alot more to the german system than just having better requirments to get a license, although that does help. and they do have speed limits on parts of the autobahn now. i'm just guessing here, but if you check out their fatalities per accident on the autobahn it is probably higher than the per accident fatality rate in the US.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:53:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By paganswede:
Lets ban all the parents who have kids from driving because the kids can distract them and cause an accident. Your a fuckin assclown if you think teens shouldn't drive.



What are you? 16? Go back to mommy.



How funny. Really your hilarious.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:55:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By paganswede:
Hey why don't we ban all guns. OMG can you believe I said such a thing, how dare someone suggest infringing on a 2nd amendment right. If you want to talk about taking away the 4th amendment right of another minority group it's all right though. Damn hypocrite.


Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Under 18?

Drug and driving test every 6 months... AT THEIR EXPENSE mind you...


Weed out the stoners...


- BUCC_Guy (Comin through with a pun, no less)




wouldn't be taking away their right since they would have to voluntarily comply to the testing to be able to drive a vehicle.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:56:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kooter:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Have all you mofos who think it's just dandy to hand over the keys to a car to a 16 year old, and then whine about how dangerous kids would be if they didn't drive until 18 EVER bothered to find out how driver licensing works in Germany?

WTF does Germany have to do with this? I'll tell you what. Germany is the only modern nation left with NO SPEED LIMIT on the majority of its freeways. Yet, incomprehensible to the average mouth breather American driver, their fatality rate per million miles traveled (the standard fatality yardstick worldwide) is better than the USA.

Face it. Driver education in this country is a joke. Along with that, it is a FACT that the great majority of teeanger either don't have the maturity necessary to be trusted with a car, or are so pathetically meek behind the wheel that they are a danger to everyone else eiher way.



there is alot more to the german system than just having better requirments to get a license, although that does help. and they do have speed limits on parts of the autobahn now. i'm just guessing here, but if you check out their fatalities per accident on the autobahn it is probably higher than the per accident fatality rate in the US.



When I said the fatality rate was lower I meant their fatality rate for limited access highways (freeways, motorways, autopistas, autobahns, whatever).

I also said that the MAJORITY of the autobahn is unlimited. Not that all was.

You are right, there are many things that Germans do to make very high speed driving safe. Very tough licensing requirements is the entry gate and the foundation.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:06:13 PM EST
Having someone actually teach them to drive properly would help a great deal. My Grandfather taught me to drive the same weekend he taught me how to ride a bike. I was 8. He let me practice everytime I saw him until he died. Now at 23, I have driven across the country 4 times, driven 3 years on the California freeways, and driven over 1,000 miles in Kuwait and Iraq. I have never been in an accident, and nobody taught me anything about driving after I was 10.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:06:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:31:22 PM EST
Some places need to extend the learners permit age to 18 so these kids can learn a little more before they drive.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:45:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:


people under 18 or people over 18?

please, read them.

without a shadow of as doubt, the most dangerous drivers on the planet are the young.


it's all there in the numbers so loud that we can't ignore the facts.




I would think drunk drivers would be the most dangerous drivers on the planet. but from the statistics i found it seems that older drivers (over 69) were more dangeous than younger drivers.


When driver fatality rates are calculated on the basis of estimated annual travel, the highest rates are found among the youngest and oldest drivers. Compared with the fatality rate for drivers 25 through 69 years old, the rate for teenage drivers (16 to 19 years old) is about 4 times as high, and the rate for drivers in the oldest group is 9 times as high.


taken from: www.drdriving.org/facts/
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:49:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kooter:

Originally Posted By guns762:

I would also like to see a law where there can be no other teenagers in the same car with a teenage driver unless they are related.




I think washington has something like this for the first 6 months of their license. I heard my nephew saying something about it. He was driving with 4 other friends and told me if he was pulled over he'd get an $85 ticket for each passenger in the car that was not related to him.



Six months with no tickets/accidents/unrelated minor passengers/0100-0500 curfew. I got a ticket in the six months and my probationary license was extended to 18. I carried passengers illegally and broke curfew, but I didn't get caught. I may have done some crazy shit, but I pay attention on the road. Many of the kids I know don't pay attention. Also got 3 Third Degree Suspension notices from the DOL, back when they were still legal, but every damn one of them was a bullshit paperwork error.

Its just stupid shit advanced by insurance companies.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:02:42 PM EST

I would think drunk drivers would be the most dangerous drivers on the planet. but from the statistics i found it seems that older drivers (over 69) were more dangeous than younger drivers.


Statistical obfuscation.

Those numbers alone mean nothing. Accident rates need to be figured into that as well. From the link I didn't find if they were or not, but I did scan it quite quickly so I might have overlooked something.

Why do I say it's obfuscation. Simple. Who is more likely to be seriously injured/killed in a high impact collision, a frail elderly person or a healthy teenager?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:07:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kooter:
I don't think that age makes much of a difference in the accidents. every day i see in the paper dozens of accidents by people older than 18. I think they should make the testing harder to pass rather than raising the age limit. in the drivers test you should be required to score a 95 or above to pass, and the written test should be 100%




+ eleventy billion
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:17:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Myke:

Make that course actually MEAN SOMETHING.


How do you do that exactly? These are teens we're talking about..... will the course cover how to cop a feel off the cheerleader riding with you while driving them home? Will it cover the MILLION other stupid things they do?

Thing is even if the classes DO cover that, what do YOU think the teen's thinking of with that cheerleader sittin' next to him?

Driving class?

or PIE?




Drivers' ed in my area was basically "if you can drive in a parking lot without hitting the road cones, you pass"

It was a joke. A blind person (and I mean really and truly blind -- sees NOTHING) would have had a halfway decent chance of passing the course.

By 'mean something' I mean make the fucking course teach you how to handle things that happen in real life. What to do if the little kitty or puppy runs out in the road in front of you vs what to do if its a small kid that runs out in front of you.

I agree....a 16 year old with a cheerleader next to him in the car probably won't be as good a driver as he would be without the cheerleader next to him simply because of the whole 'wanting pie' bit. Ya know what? a lot of 18 year olds can't handle it any better. SHIT, there's some 23-24year olds I know that wouldn't be able to handle it. BUT THATS NOT THE FUCKING POINT.
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