Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 3/9/2011 3:59:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:00:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Court records released on Tuesday show that all the serials numbers on the assault rifles had been obliterated.


http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=590342

Protect the straw buyers.

10 years per rifle sounds about right...



John
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:02:22 AM EST
Great.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:08:51 AM EST
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.

Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:13:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.


How so?
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:13:44 AM EST
Meanwhile, as that was occurring, how many pounds of coke and weed were coming to the US in gas tanks?
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:13:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2011 4:43:52 AM EST by _DR]
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.




I read it it in the news. So what? Should I quit my job and join the ATF or USBP? Should I run out of my house screaming for all my neighbors to hear?

Criminals will traffick guns. In other news, water is wet. Secure and lock down the border, enforce existing laws, and stop blaming guns for what people do.


Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:20:15 AM EST
Reynosa was a shithole when I went there 4 years ago. And it's only gotten worse.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:21:10 AM EST
Close the ATF loophole!
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:23:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:25:07 AM EST
That must have been one big gas tank.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:26:09 AM EST
Close the border...
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:26:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


And the ATF is doing their damnedest to make sure they do !
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:29:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2011 4:30:00 AM EST by TCBA_Joe]
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


We're very aware guns are going south. However, the fact is that it's being done is overblown. There's no "iron river" of guns. The 90% of all guns in Mexico thing is untrue, as is the severity of the problem. It's also not an excuse to infringe on my civil liberties.

Are guns going south? Yes
Is it really that many? Not really.
Do I care? Not really.
Should it be stopped? Yes.
But it's become an excuse to create new laws and regulations on law-abiding citizens while ignoring every law already on the books, and a head-in-the-sand viewpoint regarding illegal immigrants and border security.

It doesn't help that the ATF is trafficing guns themselves to pad their numbers.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:29:27 AM EST
13 rifles in a gas tank? He was just trying to get the cosmoline off.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:32:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


We would be deaf dumb and blind to not expect illegal arms trafficking to Mexico. The problem is that we would never expect the agency tasked with controlling guns to be the ones trafficking them. What I didn't believe, until gunrunner, is that ffl's were selling to straw purchasers. (under the auspices of the ATF of course)

Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:32:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


Everyone knows they are going South. You act so enlightened. Everyone knows the RPG's and belt fed machine guns the narco terrorists are using come from a Texas gun shop.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:33:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2011 4:37:24 AM EST by _DR]
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


"No one wants to believe that guns are going south."

Of course they are, and ATF is letting them. But criminals are doing this so how does it have any bearing on anything but crime prevention and border security?

How does this have any bearing whatsoever on legal gun ownership?


Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:35:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Close the ATF loophole!


Exactly.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:35:40 AM EST
Considering that they were obtained illegally in the first place, I don't really see how this has a logical connection with legal gun owners/buyers.

I am most worried that it will be blown up out of proportion and we will pay the price in the end because of the emotional problems that libtards will have with this.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:37:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


You misapprehend ArfCom's view of the situation. No one gives a shit whether arms flow from the US to Mexico, with or without BATFE involvement. You say "it's not popular here." The fact is that it is a matter of no concern here, and it should be of no great concern to the US government. Mexico would be an irretrievably violent 3d world shithole if there were no guns in the US to be sent there.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:37:49 AM EST
only cops should have assault rifles
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:37:55 AM EST
The real crime here (other than poss. straw purchase,ser.# & smuggling things ) is the mexican people cant defend themselves.

They shouldnt have to come here to purchase , let MX change its gun laws and all is good.

I thought NAFTA was all about free trade ?
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:38:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.


I deleted my original response. That isn't even close top the the truth.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:40:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2011 5:24:25 PM EST by Tango7]
An assault rifle and 90 rounds of ammunition were stolen early Monday from the car of a Scranton police detective whose garage in South Side was one of six burglarized overnight.

The AR-15 assault rifle belonged to a detective on the city's SWAT team. The garage was locked, and so was the car's trunk, Capt. Graziano said.

Other tactical gear in the car - such as a SWAT helmet and vest - was untouched.
**************************************
April 4, 2003 –– National Guard troops protecting New York's transportation hubs are on the lookout for Bloods and Crips street-gang members allegedly planning to steal troopers' M-16 assault rifles as part of a bizarre initiation rite.

It is not known what the gangs plan to do with the weapons, although officers believe gang members primarily want the rifles as trophies.

Members have also been known to commit robberies, slashings and murders, especially of rival gang members, to gain acceptance.

There have also been false reports of alleged gang initiation rites that have sparked undue fear around the country.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/56181.htm

<Edited per CoC 10 - no need to feed the lawyers.

-Tango7>
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:42:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


We're very aware guns are going south. However, the fact is that it's being done is overblown. There's no "iron river" of guns. The 90% of all guns in Mexico thing is untrue, as is the severity of the problem. It's also not an excuse to infringe on my civil liberties.

Are guns going south? Yes
Is it really that many? Not really.
Do I care? Not really.
Should it be stopped? Yes.
But it's become an excuse to create new laws and regulations on law-abiding citizens while ignoring every law already on the books, and a head-in-the-sand viewpoint regarding illegal immigrants and border security.

It doesn't help that the ATF is trafficing guns themselves to pad their numbers.


That's a pretty good summation Joe.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:42:06 AM EST
Investigators said the Reynosa man had six AR-15 style weapons, five AK-47 style weapons and another kind of assault rifles.


"We aren't sure what it is but we know it's bad."


Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:42:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Investigators said the Reynosa man had six AR-15 style weapons, five AK-47 style weapons and another kind of assault rifles.


"We aren't sure what it is but we know it's bad."




Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:45:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.
Fact is facts, unless you are talking politics.

Fact is an awful lot of those guns heading south of the border are being bought by everyday Mexicans who love their guns and aren't allowed to buy them for a government bent on corruption and control. In this case I suspect the guns were not going to otherwise peaceful Mexicans because of the problem with the serial numbers. The biggest fact is that the amount of money Mexicans spend on arms in our country is just a small fraction of the River of Cash we send to them for drugs. That flow of drug money is what's driving the trouble in Mexico.

Mexicans are for the most part pretty nice people. I have no doubt they can be trusted with arms. As a matter of fact I firmly believe they have an inalienable right to keep and bear arms.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:46:42 AM EST
I heard in texas you can buy belt fed machine guns, fragmentation grenades, RPG's, and ice cream all in the same shop. You don't even need an ID.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:48:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By smaddox:
I heard in texas you can buy belt fed machine guns, fragmentation grenades, RPG's, and ice cream all in the same shop. You don't even need an ID.

You have to sign a form promising to take them out of the country. It's kind of like the law some states have for buying fireworks.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:49:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


You misapprehend ArfCom's view of the situation. No one gives a shit whether arms flow from the US to Mexico, with or without BATFE involvement. You say "it's not popular here." The fact is that it is a matter of no concern here, and it should be of no great concern to the US government. Mexico would be an irretrievably violent 3d world shithole if there were no guns in the US to be sent there.


Hey this is not true at all, I am very concerned with the cartels buying up guns to transport them south. Every gun they buy limits the supply of guns in the US and drives the gun prices higher.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 4:52:21 AM EST
why don't the cops stop the flow of stuff across the border
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:04:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2011 5:05:58 AM EST by MACGI98Z28]
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Not really, it just isn't a problem that requires a solution paid for through the erosion of the freedoms of law-abiding Americans.

Clearly cartels have made large numbers of US civilian market illegal purchases and they also have many other sources as is obvious from the large number of full-auto weapons, grenades and RPGs that they also seem to possess.

Saying that no additional laws are needed on Americans is not the same thing as ignoring the problem. I am a strong supporter of a secure border and of putting straw buyers/those in possession of illegal weapons away for a very, very long time. We need to enforce a secure border and prosecute the hell out of guys like this and put them in prison for 60 years to convince them that trying to illegally procure and smuggle weapons bought in our civilian market is just too risky. More laws and more hoops for Americans will do nothing to solve any problem with this kind of smuggling.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:12:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By madmathew:

Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.


How so?



There are many that refuse to believe guns are leaving the legal market and headed south. Somehow they believe that acknowledging this is somehow a threat to our RKBA. There isn't much that we can do about it - and I think there are quite a few here who honestly don't see what the big deal is- but we haven't seen the worst of what's going to happen: these guns are going to start getting used on our side of the border and then I think we're fucked.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:25:48 AM EST
Well that's no good for the finish.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:30:38 AM EST
They have been smuggling guns from the US into Mexico since the Wild Bunch.

But most of the full-auto stuff is coming from overseas and corrupt police and military units.
Germany has even put a ban on weapons exports to Mexico because they don't want their guns falling into the wrong hands.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:34:40 AM EST
Aren't we supposed to need exports to keep this country Strong?




Impeach Obama for the Good of the Mexicans.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:36:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By madmathew:

Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.


How so?



There are many that refuse to believe guns are leaving the legal market and headed south. Somehow they believe that acknowledging this is somehow a threat to our RKBA. There isn't much that we can do about it - and I think there are quite a few here who honestly don't see what the big deal is- but we haven't seen the worst of what's going to happen: these guns are going to start getting used on our side of the border and then I think we're fucked.


The solution is the same as it is to many of our other problems.

secure. the. border.

Link Posted: 3/9/2011 6:55:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By _DR:

The solution is the same as it is to many of our other problems.

secure. the. border.




The only way this happens is if - and only if - a massive AQ attack happens because they came in through Mexico. I honestly don't think that even a shootout that kills a dozen Phoenix cops or everyone in a small TX department ( and I think it's only a matter of time before the latter happens) will be enough to make our gov't do anything. It ain't just the D's either: Dubya was in love with illegals and don't tell me for a second that Reagan/Bush/Clinton didn't know the deals that were cut between the PRI and cartels but that shit didn't matter either because speaking the truth about why we were having the war on drugs would mean no NAFTA and no more #2 supplier of oil.

Mexico's problems of being a 3rd world shithole are mostly due to having shitty government for their entire history. Their problems are their problems. HOWEVER we need to recognize that so long as they are our neighbors and we want their cheap labor,cheap drugs and cheap oil that we need to take responsibility for what our government has done regarding Mexico too.

Link Posted: 3/9/2011 6:57:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Investigators said the Reynosa man had six AR-15 style weapons, five AK-47 style weapons and another kind of assault rifles.


"We aren't sure what it is but we know it's bad."






An SKS bullpup, I'm sure.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:03:21 AM EST
I've always wondered about this. We have a massive moral outrage at the seizure of thirteen rifles at the border? Thirteen isn't very many. And they didn't even have enough magazines for a full load-out. This is just a tiny drop in a very large stagnant cesspool. If I were an aspiring mega drug lord I'd be buying my weapons in a bit more bulk than having to pay Jose $200 to sneak some AR's across the border. Thirteen is inconsequential. It's like "major" drug busts in the news that net a quarter pound of weed and $1,000 "taking a dangerous dealer off the street". That's nothing, not even a day's inventory for your basic street corner hustler. As usual, we're being lied to.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:05:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


We're very aware guns are going south. However, the fact is that it's being done is overblown. There's no "iron river" of guns. The 90% of all guns in Mexico thing is untrue, as is the severity of the problem. It's also not an excuse to infringe on my civil liberties.

Are guns going south? Yes
Is it really that many? Not really.
Do I care? Not really.
Should it be stopped? Yes.
But it's become an excuse to create new laws and regulations on law-abiding citizens while ignoring every law already on the books, and a head-in-the-sand viewpoint regarding illegal immigrants and border security.

It doesn't help that the ATF is trafficing guns themselves to pad their numbers.


That's a pretty good summation Joe.

A good citizen would realize that further reductions of freedom and empowerment of government functionaries in America will be required to help Mexico's corrupt government.


Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:10:58 AM EST
US Civilian guns account for something like 12% of the total number of firearms used in cartel shootouts and the like.


I'd be more than happy to end the said 12% by enacting tough border security , thus keeping out illegal immigrants & guns while we're at it.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:13:55 AM EST
I say arm the poor Mexican citizens that live in fear of a corrupt government and drug gangs
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:16:41 AM EST
WOW! 13 rifles is a lot of rifles.

This guy is a rank amaeteur just trying to earn some pocket money. The drug cartels are exporting tons of drugs to the US. We seem to have a little tiny problem of priorities.

I suggest that the US transfer some of the ATF agents to the DEA to get a handle on the massive amounts of drug entering the US.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:21:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


ARFCOM is not in denia about that...


Simply that the world is in denia about the TRUE percentage comming from here
compared to those comming from within Mexico and Central and South America.

I dont know about you.
But I have not seen any RPGs,,,Korean Handgrenades,,G3......for sale here
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:21:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Investigators said the Reynosa man had six AR-15 style weapons, five AK-47 style weapons and another kind of assault rifles.


"We aren't sure what it is but we know it's bad."


Well to be fair it was in stealth mode.

Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:38:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By BiteDog:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



Agreed.

No one wants to believe that guns are going south.

The fact is, they are.

It's not popular here, but not a lot of facts are.


If you don't want drugs coming north and guns/ money going south I have a suggestion, SECURE THE FUCKING BORDER ALREADY!
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 7:42:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



does your douchebaggery ever cease? No one says this shit doesn't happen. The point is OUR rights and ability to purchase should in no way be altered due to the action of fucking CRIMINALS, nor by the policies of authoritarian sacks of shit in the ATF, DOJ, Administration etc., who choose to inflame a crisis so they can use it as a proximate excuse to do so.

Link Posted: 3/9/2011 8:03:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By RichR:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
This is topic arfcom wants to keep its head in the sand over.



does your douchebaggery ever cease? No one says this shit doesn't happen. The point is OUR rights and ability to purchase should in no way be altered due to the action of fucking CRIMINALS, nor by the policies of authoritarian sacks of shit in the ATF, DOJ, Administration etc., who choose to inflame a crisis so they can use it as a proximate excuse to do so.

Who are you, again?

Where did I ever say anything at all about altering our rights? Cam nailed this topic last night on his XM show, btw, if you missed it.


Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top