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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 4:44:34 PM EDT

Updated: 05:28 PM EDT
Plane Crash in Greece Kills All Aboard
48 Children Among the Dead; Lack of Oxygen a Possible Cause
By ELENA BECATOROS, AP

GRAMMATIKO, Greece (Aug. 14) - A Cypriot plane full of vacationers slammed into a mountainside north of Athens on Sunday after at least one pilot lost consciousness from lack of oxygen, killing all 121 people aboard, more than a third of them children.

The cause of Greece's deadliest plane crash appeared to be technical failure - resulting in high-altitude decompression - and not terrorism, authorities said. A transport official said the 115 passengers and six crew may have been dead when the plane went down.

Helios Airways flight ZU522 was headed from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Athens International Airport when it crashed at 12:05 p.m. near Grammatiko, a scenic village 25 miles north of the Greek capital. Flaming debris, luggage and bits of human remains were strewn across two ravines and surrounding hills.

Family members wept in anguish as they waited at the Athens and Larnaca airports. When news of the crash emerged at Larnaca, relatives swarmed the airline counters, shouting "murderers" and "you deserve lynching."

A man whose cousin was a passenger told Greece's Alpha television he received a cell-phone text message minutes before the crash. "He told me the pilots were unconscious. ... He said: "Farewell, cousin, here we're frozen," Sotiris Voutas said - indicating the plane was cold, a sign of decompression.

About a half-hour after takeoff, pilots reported air-conditioning system problems to Cyprus air traffic control. Within minutes, after entering Greek air space over the Aegean, the Boeing 737 lost all radio contact. Two Greek F-16 fighter jets were dispatched soon afterward.

When the F-16s intercepted the plane, jet pilots could see the co-pilot slumped over his seat. The captain was not in the cockpit, and oxygen masks dangled inside the cabin, government spokesman Theodoros Roussopoulos said.

He said the jet pilots also saw two people possibly trying to take control of the plane; it was unclear if they were crew members or passengers. The plane apparently was on automatic pilot when it crashed, Helios spokesman Marios Konstantinidis said in Cyprus.

"When a pilot has no communication with the control tower, the procedure dictates that other planes must accompany and help the plane land. Unfortunately, it appeared that the pilot was already dead as was, possibly, everyone else on the plane," Cyprus Transport Minister Haris Thrasou said.

A witness described the instant the airline smashed into the 1,500-foot-high mountain, flanked by the F-16s. "We saw some fighter jets flying very low and after a few minutes we heard a very loud noise and saw pieces of the plane flying in the air," said Spyros Papachristou.

The head of the Greek airline safety committee, Akrivos Tsolakis, said the crash was the "worst accident we've ever had." He said the plane's black boxes had been recovered, containing data and voice recordings valuable for determining the cause

"There apparently was a lack of oxygen, which is usually the case when the cabin is depressurized," Tsolakis said.

The F-16 jets met the plane at 34,000 feet, the Greek air force said. At that altitude, the effects of depressurization are swift, said David Kaminski Morrow, of the British-based Air Transport Intelligence magazine.

"If the aircraft is at 30,000 feet, you don't stay conscious for long, maybe 15 to 30 seconds," he said. "But if you are down at 10,000 feet, you can breathe for a lot longer."

The flight was to have continued to Prague, Czech Republic, after stopping in Athens. This is the height of Europe's summer travel season, when Mediterranean resorts like Cyprus are packed with tourists. The area was likely to be particularly crowded, because Monday is a national holiday in Greece and Cyprus.

There were 48 children aboard, mostly Greek Cypriots, Helios spokesman Giorgos Dimitriou said in Athens.

Greek state television quoted the Cyprus transport minister as saying the plane had decompression problems in the past. However, Helios representative Dimitriou said the plane had "no problems and was serviced just last week."

On Cyprus, several callers to radio and television programs said they experienced severe air-conditioning problems on Helios jets in recent months. Some said the cabin was freezing and the crew provided blankets; others said it became unbearably hot.

Sudden loss of pressure was blamed for a crash in South Dakota in 1999, of a Learjet 35 carrying pro golfer Payne Stewart and four others. They became unconscious, and the jet went down after flying halfway across the country on autopilot.

In June 2000, a Boeing 737-200 of the Canadian carrier WestJet lost cabin pressure because pilots mistakenly shut down auxiliary power. Cabin altitude reached 24,000 feet before the plane descended and pressurization became normal. None of the 118 passengers was injured.

At the Greek crash scene, more than 100 firefighters, backed by planes and helicopters dropping water, fought a brush fire caused by the crash. The plane was in at least three pieces: the tail, a bit of the cockpit and a piece of fuselage that witnesses said contained many bodies. Sections of the plane were ablaze.

Fire department rescue vehicles carried body bags up the steep slopes of the charred valley to a fleet of ambulances. None of the bodies had masks on their faces, the fire department said. Black-robed Greek Orthodox priests were on hand.

"There is wreckage everywhere. Things here are very difficult, they are indescribable," Grammatiko Mayor George Papageorgiou said. "All the residents are here trying to help."

Relatives from Cyprus were to be taken a reception center near the Athens airport, but the remains of many victims were charred beyond identification. The Cyprus transport minister said DNA tests would be necessary.

Greek Prime Minister Costas Caramanlis canceled a holiday on the Aegean island of Tinos to return to Athens. The Cypriot president also canceled a vacation.

Helios Airways, Cyprus' first private airline, was founded in 1999. It operates a fleet of Boeing 737s to cities including London; Athens; Sofia, Bulgaria; Dublin, Ireland; and Strasbourg, France. EU newcomer Cyprus is divided into Turkish and Greek sectors. Most of its 800,000 people are Greek Cypriots.

Associated Press writers Derek Gatopoulos in Grammatiko; Petros Karadjas in Larnaca, Cyprus; Ondrej Hejma in Prague, and Mara D. Bellaby in London contributed to this report.


08/14/05 17:22 EDT

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.


Link Posted: 8/14/2005 4:53:59 PM EDT
That's a pretty horrible story.

I'll bet those fighter pilots will have a few nightmares.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 4:57:02 PM EDT
Terrorism is a very real possibility despite what the greek government said. They rule it out without any real evidence to prove otherwise. Suspicious?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:09:18 PM EDT
Very much like the circumstances that took the life of Payne Stewart the pro golfer several years back. Sometimes mechanical things just break. Not being a fatalist ... but shit happens. I feel sorry for their loved ones.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:13:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By out4trout:
Very much like the circumstances that took the life of Payne Stewart the pro golfer several years back. Sometimes mechanical things just break. Not being a fatalist ... but shit happens. I feel sorry for their loved ones.



Could be - would be worthwhile to know the history of the airframe (takeoff/landing cycles)

kinna surprised that the O2 in the cockpit wasn't used straight away...
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:21:50 PM EDT
10 to 1 the pilot got up to either troubleshoot the problem or else went to the back to have a cup of coffee or take leak.

That's so sad for the families.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:23:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 5:24:51 PM EDT by ED_P]

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

When news of the crash emerged at Larnaca, relatives swarmed the airline counters, shouting "murderers" and "you deserve lynching."




If this is true and actually was more than one or two people yelling this- I have a tough time gettting my mind around how culturally different their mindset is that they so quickly direct so much anger at other airline employees and the airline.

Even in lawsuit happy America, Americans wait for some kind of flimsy evidence, usually formulated days after a crash, before lawsuits start taking root.

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:26:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MachinegunManiac:
Terrorism is a very real possibility despite what the greek government said. They rule it out without any real evidence to prove otherwise. Suspicious?



The article said the plane had had decompression problems in the past.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:29:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Sudden loss of pressure was blamed for a crash in South Dakota in 1999, of a Learjet 35 carrying pro golfer Payne Stewart and four others. They became unconscious, and the jet went down after flying halfway across the country on autopilot.



Not to hijack, but if I'm not mistaken, this wasn't instant, but rather gradual. I heard that the system didn't work at all, and as the aircraft climbed to altitude, it was never being pressurized. Much different than a sudden loss of pressurization.

Very sad day for those involved from today's crash.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 6:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 6:57:09 PM EDT by Airwolf]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
10 to 1 the pilot got up to either troubleshoot the problem or else went to the back to have a cup of coffee or take leak.

That's so sad for the families.



Don't know what the rules are there but here when a crewmember leaves the cockpit the other must put on a mask just to prevent that sort of thing.

a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/14cfr121.333.htm


PART 121--OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL
OPERATIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart K--Instrument and Equipment Requirements

Sec. 121.333 Supplemental oxygen for emergency descent and for first aid;
turbine engine powered airplanes with pressurized cabins.

(a) General. When operating a turbine engine powered airplane with a
pressurized cabin, the certificate holder shall furnish oxygen and
dispensing

[[Page 399]]

equipment to comply with paragraphs (b) through (e) of this section in
the event of cabin pressurization failure.
(b) Crewmembers. When operating at flight altitudes above 10,000
feet, the certificate holder shall supply enough oxygen to comply with
Sec. 121.329, but not less than a two-hour supply for each flight
crewmember on flight deck duty. The required two hours supply is that
quantity of oxygen necessary for a constant rate of descent from the
airplane's maximum certificated operating altitude to 10,000 feet in ten
minutes and followed by 110 minutes at 10,000 feet. The oxygen required
in the event of cabin pressurization failure by Sec. 121.337 may be
included in determining the supply required for flight crewmembers on
flight deck duty.
(c) Use of oxygen masks by flight crewmembers. (1) When operating at
flight altitudes above flight level 250, each flight crewmember on
flight deck duty must be provided with an oxygen mask so designed that
it can be rapidly placed on his face from its ready position, properly
secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen upon demand; and so designed that
after being placed on the face it does not prevent immediate
communication between the flight crewmember and other crewmembers over
the airplane intercommunication system. When it is not being used at
flight altitudes above flight level 250, the oxygen mask must be kept in
condition for ready use and located so as to be within the immediate
reach of the flight crewmember while at his duty station.
(2) When operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, one
pilot at the controls of the airplane shall at all times wear and use an
oxygen mask secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen, in accordance with
the following:
(i) The one pilot need not wear and use an oxygen mask at or below
the following flight levels if each flight crewmember on flight deck
duty has a quick-donning type of oxygen mask that the certificate holder
has shown can be placed on the face from its ready position, properly
secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen upon demand, with one hand and
within five seconds:
(A) For airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of more than
30 seats, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity
of more than 7,500 pounds, at or below flight level 410.
(B) For airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of less than
31 seats, excluding any required crewmember seat, and a payload capacity
of 7,500 pounds or less, at or below flight level 350.
(ii) Whenever a quick-donning type of oxygen mask is to be used
under this section, the certificate holder shall also show that the mask
can be put on without disturbing eye glasses and without delaying the
flight crewmember from proceeding with his assigned emergency duties.
The oxygen mask after being put on must not prevent immediate
communication between the flight crewmember and other crewmembers over
the airplane intercommunication system.
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (c)(2) of this section, if for any
reason at any time it is necessary for one pilot to leave his station at
the controls of the airplane when operating at flight altitudes above
flight level 250, the remaining pilot at the controls shall put on and
use his oxygen mask until the other pilot has returned to his duty
station.




This is going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:04:47 PM EDT
And 737-200s are rather old,Delta bought about the last of them back in the early 80's,I saw lot of United 737-200's covered in patch panels,still,a tough little jet.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:07:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 7:12:41 PM EDT by Misery]

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
And 737-200s are rather old,Delta bought about the last of them back in the early 80's,I saw lot of United 737-200's covered in patch panels,still,a tough little jet.



It was a 733, not a 732.

So why didn't the O2 system work? Wonder what the story is there?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:24:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Misery:

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
And 737-200s are rather old,Delta bought about the last of them back in the early 80's,I saw lot of United 737-200's covered in patch panels,still,a tough little jet.



It was a 733, not a 732.

So why didn't the O2 system work? Wonder what the story is there?

That IS wierd! Although,the 737-300s are starting to get up there too.(my how time flies,767-200s getting scrapped?) BTW,I was on a ground test of one of our old DHL 727-100s that had a pressurisation leak. First indicator that I screwed up was when the mechs passed out gum,followed by the mech turning the cabin pessure knob,that was a bad night,ears popping,everything sounding l;ike my heads in a fishbowl,ect... Leak was in the corner of the big cargo door.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:28:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 7:31:18 PM EDT by Misery]
Yeah, the 300s are old. I like the 200s with their little engines and cool bucket reversers. The 200s were made in the late 60s through 71. The 30s were made in the early 80s with a rollout of 1984. Big gap.

I'm just curious about the O2?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:38:47 PM EDT
I'm willing to bet the O2 didn't work due to lack of maintenence. If airlines in the US scrimp on maintenence you can bet the greeks will. Didn't ValueJet that crashed in the Everglades have problems with faulty O2 generators?
I have a friend who goes to Greece every other year to see her folks and shit in the hotel is always breaking down.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:39:12 PM EDT
So much for the oxygen masks coming down........
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:42:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
I'm willing to bet the O2 didn't work due to lack of maintenence. If airlines in the US scrimp on maintenence you can bet the greeks will. Didn't ValueJet that crashed in the Everglades have problems with faulty O2 generators?
I have a friend who goes to Greece every other year to see her folks and shit in the hotel is always breaking down.



ValuJet was O2 canisters in shipment that should not have been there (at least filled), not aircraft O2 systems IIRC
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:43:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Misery:
Yeah, the 300s are old. I like the 200s with their little engines and cool bucket reversers. The 200s were made in the late 60s through 71. The 30s were made in the early 80s with a rollout of 1984. Big gap.

I'm just curious about the O2?

No,Delta got the last of the 200(Advanced) around 82-84,there is a pic of the last 200s,with 300s also in the pic. Delta traded 11 L-1011s to Boeing for long-term leases on 33 200's. 737,s were a PTA to fuel,always required a stand to get to the fuel port(AHHHH but they had digital guages!!!)
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:45:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By twonami:
I'm willing to bet the O2 didn't work due to lack of maintenence. If airlines in the US scrimp on maintenence you can bet the greeks will. Didn't ValueJet that crashed in the Everglades have problems with faulty O2 generators?
I have a friend who goes to Greece every other year to see her folks and shit in the hotel is always breaking down.



ValuJet was O2 canisters in shipment that should not have been there (at least filled), not aircraft O2 systems IIRC


didn't know that
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:52:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 7:52:47 PM EDT by Misery]

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:

Originally Posted By Misery:
Yeah, the 300s are old. I like the 200s with their little engines and cool bucket reversers. The 200s were made in the late 60s through 71. The 30s were made in the early 80s with a rollout of 1984. Big gap.

I'm just curious about the O2?

No,Delta got the last of the 200(Advanced) around 82-84,there is a pic of the last 200s,with 300s also in the pic. Delta traded 11 L-1011s to Boeing for long-term leases on 33 200's. 737,s were a PTA to fuel,always required a stand to get to the fuel port(AHHHH but they had digital guages!!!)



Okay, you've lost me. I'm just talking about when the 200s and 300s were made. According to Boeing's website, the 200s were rolled out in the late 60s and last rollout was in the early 70s, 1971. The last delivery of a 732Adv was in 1988. The 300s were rolled out in 1984, and last delivery was in 1999. www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/background.html
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:53:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By twonami:
I'm willing to bet the O2 didn't work due to lack of maintenence. If airlines in the US scrimp on maintenence you can bet the greeks will. Didn't ValueJet that crashed in the Everglades have problems with faulty O2 generators?
I have a friend who goes to Greece every other year to see her folks and shit in the hotel is always breaking down.



ValuJet was O2 canisters in shipment that should not have been there (at least filled), not aircraft O2 systems IIRC


didn't know that

And they make helluva lot of heat. A REAL case of the dumbass there.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:55:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
I'm willing to bet the O2 didn't work due to lack of maintenence. If airlines in the US scrimp on maintenence you can bet the greeks will. Didn't ValueJet that crashed in the Everglades have problems with faulty O2 generators?
I have a friend who goes to Greece every other year to see her folks and shit in the hotel is always breaking down.



I worked for AirTran for a while, which was the reflagged Value Jet. I had to fly 4 flights a week on their planes, so I researched what happened pretty carefully.

The O2 generators in question were cargo, not installed on the plane, and were incorrectly loaded by a 3rd party carrier, not Value Jet. Over production of O2 + spark = fire. The blackbox transcript is pretty chilling to read.

"Screams from passenger area..."

a couple of minutes later

"Screams cease."

2 minutes later, plane crashes.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:59:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Misery:

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:

Originally Posted By Misery:
Yeah, the 300s are old. I like the 200s with their little engines and cool bucket reversers. The 200s were made in the late 60s through 71. The 30s were made in the early 80s with a rollout of 1984. Big gap.

I'm just curious about the O2?

No,Delta got the last of the 200(Advanced) around 82-84,there is a pic of the last 200s,with 300s also in the pic. Delta traded 11 L-1011s to Boeing for long-term leases on 33 200's. 737,s were a PTA to fuel,always required a stand to get to the fuel port(AHHHH but they had digital guages!!!)



Okay, you've lost me. I'm just talking about when the 200s and 300s were made. According to Boeing's website, the 200s were rolled out in the late 60s and last rollout was in the early 70s, 1971. The last delivery of a 732Adv was in 1988. The 300s were rolled out in 1984, and last delivery was in 1999. www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/background.html

After 71(you've got it right) Boeing came out with the Advanced series,basically bigger engines,improved soundproofing,and cabin interiors(enclosed luggage bins we all know and fight over,Boeing also did this with 727s,also more advanced cockpit instruments,some even had autoland added on later).
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:02:35 PM EDT
Most of those Valujets were ex-Delta DC-9s,ironic ain't it?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:55:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
So much for the oxygen masks coming down........



According to the story, the F-16 pilots observed that "oxygen masks dangled inside the cabin".
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:58:17 PM EDT
The plastic jungle masks are only good for about 10 minutes or so. They are designed to be used during the decent from cruise to 10,000 ft, to assume normal breathing.

Its a shame really. Those pilots fucked up big time.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:22:55 AM EDT
Here she is just 2 and a half months ago...

www.airliners.net/open.file/901291/L/

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:34:05 AM EDT
A lot of speculation as to the possible cause on the net of course. According to some, only one pack was operational when they took off, so even though the flight plan called for a 34,000 foot (FL340) altitude, they should not have been above FL250. If the pack failed, then they would've only had a few minutes (maybe 5 max) depending on what altitude they were at, but they need O2 immediately. One former 737-300 (733) pilot said the O2 valve is often shut off and is located behind the co-pilot's seat, thus difficult to get to. If and when the alarm sounded (same as take-off configuration alarm), they might have just cancelled it and not realized right away what the problem was. The take-off alarm is often heard and cancelled without much thought on the ground when flaps or trim aren't set properly and the plane is taxied above a certain speed or N1 reading. Apparently this jet had been checked out by a tech and he refused to sign off on it, but it somehow went on to fly. It also has a history of air conditioning and related problems according to some sources.

All this leads me to think it very well might not have been the pilots fault, unless they chanced a higher than 25,000 foot altitude, making descent to a safe non-O2 dependent altitude take much longer. Also, some reports put the plane into a hold for over an hour before somehow (ie. no more fuel) crashing into the mountains 43 nm from the VOR it was holding over. This really makes little sense because a hold would require a bit of programming the FMC to tell the autopilot to hold, and no way if the decompression or whatever led to the lack of O2 supply, the pilot would have time or even bother with any holds. A bit of a mystery as to where it ended up when looking at the route and likely STAR they would have been flying, if the STAR had been even entered. It's more likely someone messed with the autopilot (AP) before passing out themselves (passenger or crew?). If the jet was equipped with CWS (control Wheel Sterring), when the co-pilot slumped over the yoke, he may have put the plane into CWS pitch mode and it slowly descended, while the LNAV maintained the flight plan to a certain point. Very hard to tell, and I don't have any overseas flight maps, so I can't really look at the area to try and guess.

Here's some interesting info regarding Helios more recent problems:


In April 2003, a damaged Helios Boeing 737 carrying 180 passengers landed safely at Stansted Airport following an incident involving bird strike, which damaged the aircraft’s tail. The flight took off from Luton Airport when the tail sustained minor damage after take-off and the pilot had to decide whether to return to Luton for safety reasons or go on to land at Stansted, where it landed safely.

In September of the same year, a Helios flight from Larnaca to Luton carrying over 100 passengers was forced to divert to Rhodes due to engine failure. The pilots of the Boeing 737 noticed a problem with the engine around 40 minutes into the 9am flight out of Larnaca and immediately diverted to Rhodes where it landed safely. The Boeing was later given a new engine.

Three months later, three passengers from a Helios flight from Warsaw were taken to hospital after the aircraft lost cabin pressure and was forced to make an urgent landing at Larnaca airport.


Several more of the 35 passengers and six crew members were treated at First Aid in the airport after the emergency services were mobilised.

The reports said that the Helios captain had contacted the Control Tower at Larnaca saying they had lost a significant amount of cabin pressure and that passengers had reported feeling dizzy as the plane was coming in to land.

In February this year, A Helios Airways plane was struck by lighting on its way from Larnaca Airport to pick up a number of passengers for a flight to Luton.

The Boeing 737was carrying 62 passengers and seven crew members when it left Larnaca for Paphos at around 9am. As the plane was coming in to land, the lightning struck but the landing was not affected.

It is not clear whether the Boeing that crashed yesterday was involved with any of the four incidents but reports were rife that the particular plane had had problems in the past, including problems in the aircraft’s cockpit.

There was also speculation that the Boeing that crashed was the same one that was known to have had problems with its air conditioning system and that the company knew about the problem.

Several callers to Greek and Cypriot television channels yesterday said they had traveled with Helios and there had been problems with the temperature. One man said that on a flight back from Prague only this week, temperatures fell dramatically some 20 minutes out of Larnaca and all passengers had to be given blankets.

Another caller said that on a flight last Sunday, water dripped on his head and when he complained to cabin crew he was told there was a problem with the air conditioning.

However, Viki Xitas, the commercial manager for Helios told Greek television yesterday said the company had no information about problems with the plane’s air conditioning. “This plane received maintenance as usual and left Cyprus without any problem,” she said.

Helios general manager Demetris Pantazis also said he could not confirm that the plane had the same problems previously since they do not know what the problem was that caused yesterday’s crash.

Communications and Works Minister Haris Thrasou told a news conference later in the day that the plane in question had been given the all clear in examinations.



just a brief history of events.



Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:37:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
So much for the oxygen masks coming down........



According to the story, the F-16 pilots observed that "oxygen masks dangled inside the cabin".



Maybe they came down too late?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:02:44 AM EDT
This IS weird! Sounds like an airline that has shoddy maint. BTW. heard that a Kalitta flat out did'nt have any pressurisation(747-100),had to fly at 15k ft from the coast to CVG,that burned up ALOT of fuel. Oh yeah,want to see anti American BS views? Go into airliners.net/non airliner discussion!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:09:27 AM EDT
Wait.. the article said the plane was at 34,000 when it hit the ground. There is no ground at 34,000 anywhere on Earth.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:10:57 AM EDT
All this cost cutting shit. Remember, you can't get more for less, you always just get less.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:12:03 AM EDT
everything about this gives me the creeps. I hate flying.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:22:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:
Wait.. the article said the plane was at 34,000 when it hit the ground. There is no ground at 34,000 anywhere on Earth.




Maybe it hit one of those floating islands that RUSH used on their album covers?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:33:32 AM EDT
When they first brought out the 737-300,a few rampies were killed when they were sucked into the engines. Unlike the -200s,there is no engine frame to put your feet,the first thing one contacts is the 1st stage fan! Airlines have a warning area painted on the ramp,Stay Out of The Painted Area!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:14:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
When they first brought out the 737-300,a few rampies were killed when they were sucked into the engines. Unlike the -200s,there is no engine frame to put your feet,the first thing one contacts is the 1st stage fan! Airlines have a warning area painted on the ramp,Stay Out of The Painted Area!


Freaky and interesting that foreign matter engine ingestion thing but what does that have to do with failing O2 systems?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:25:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:
When they first brought out the 737-300,a few rampies were killed when they were sucked into the engines. Unlike the -200s,there is no engine frame to put your feet,the first thing one contacts is the 1st stage fan! Airlines have a warning area painted on the ramp,Stay Out of The Painted Area!


Freaky and interesting that foreign matter engine ingestion thing but what does that have to do with failing O2 systems?

Sorry 'bout the hijack(oops,bad word!) just telling about the -300,we once had an Canadair RJ that came in with all the masks dropped,pilots and maint.were pissed(that next flight was a real no-go).
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:58:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 1:58:37 PM EDT by Misery]
According to FNC, Helios airlines offices have been raided by police
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:15:12 PM EDT
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:52:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.

So what does that make Turkey, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East?

CW
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 3:48:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.

So what does that make Turkey, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East?

CW



Look at their infrastructure and let know what conclusion you come to.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:02:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.

So what does that make Turkey, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East?

CW



Look at their infrastructure and let know what conclusion you come to.


Can't figure out which Latin American country is worse than Mexico to continue the analogy.

CW
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:11:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.

So what does that make Turkey, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East?

CW



Look at their infrastructure and let know what conclusion you come to.


Can't figure out which Latin American country is worse than Mexico to continue the analogy.

CW



Good point. Mexico is FUBAR, for sure. But Greece is no better.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:24:34 PM EDT
A huge part of the problem is that the onset of hypoxia is very difficult to diagnose and one of hypoxia's first effects is the inhibition of higher cognitive function. In other words thinking gets very very hard. You really have less than a minute if the loss if fairly quick. It is like a very rapid drunkeness.

If this aircraft had a gradual loss and the pilots spent time at an effective altitude of over 15K feet without O2 they really had no chance. During my couple rides in an altitude chamber, it didn't take much more than a couple of minutes to make young, strong, fit student aviators into babbling, sometimes hostile idiots who were incapable of playing pattycake or writing their own name on a piece of paper.

Hence the complaints about overly strong AC. That sounded major warning bells to me here at sea level, but in the crew's state, they probably couldn't figure out much more than that they were cold.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:33:22 PM EDT
First thing that came to mind was "That Sucks" and there was no pun intended
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:34:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.

So what does that make Turkey, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East?

CW



Not part of Europe?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:58:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Greece is the Mexico of Europe. Expect to see accusations of shoddy work, graft, etc., as this thing plays out.

So what does that make Turkey, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East?

CW



Look at their infrastructure and let know what conclusion you come to.


Can't figure out which Latin American country is worse than Mexico to continue the analogy.

CW



Good point. Mexico is FUBAR, for sure. But Greece is no better.


Actually, Greece is much better in two respects. Corruption is nowhere near as rampant and poverty is just a difference in lifestyle, not a life and death issue. The people in my family's village were living a somewhat medieval life, (community well for water, farming and herding for food, no community sanitation facilities, no electricity) but they were happy, clean and energetic. They did not have great worries about how to eke out a living. Contrast that to the "poor" in Mexico.

CW

CW
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:01:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Can't figure out which Latin American country is worse than Mexico to continue the analogy.



If Mexico is the armpit of Latin America, then Cuba is most certainly the rectum.
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