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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 1/1/2004 3:25:02 PM EST
how bout a little .303 action
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 3:47:46 PM EST
cool movie.... I watched lawremce of arabia last nite. I mneed to start a collection of some of these older classics.

Is beau geste(sp?) worth watching??
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 3:51:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2004 4:13:32 PM EST by Johnny_Reno]
Based on a true story as well...

What do you do when your outpost of 150 men are attacked by 4,000 Zulu warriors? - you fight! This movie was the Blackhawk Down of the day when it was produced.  

The British equivalent to the Medal of Honor is the Victoria Cross.  Of 1,354 that have been awarded, 11 came from this battle alone...an unheard of achievement. If you haven't seen this movie, go watch it now.



Quotes from the movie:

Private: Why us? Why does it have to be us?
Colour Sergeant Bourne: Because we're here lad.

---

Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength?
Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: 7 officers including surgeon, commercaries and so on, Adendorff now I suppose, wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.

---

Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Damn the levies man... Cowardly blacks!
Adendorff: What the hell do you mean "cowardly blacks"? They died on your side didn't they? And who the hell do you think is coming to wipe out your little command? The Grenadier Guards?

---

Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: 60!, we got at least 60 wouldn't you say?
Adendorff: That leaves only 3,940.

---

Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle.
Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry, point 4-5 caliber miracle.
Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet sir, with some guts behind.

---

Lieutenant John Chard: Mr Bourne, there should be 12 more men working on this redoubt.
Color Sgt. Bourne: They're very tired sir.
Chard turns around
Lieutenant John Chard: I don't give a damn! And i want this wall 9 feet high, firing steps on the inside, form details to clear away the Zulu bodies, rebuild the south rampart, keep 'em moving. Do you understand?
Color Sgt. Bourne: Yes sir... very good sir.

---

Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Zulu's... thousands of 'em. Wait 'til you see the whites of their eyes boy's before you strike!
View Quote
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 4:37:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2004 4:44:23 PM EST by LWilde]
Originally Posted By rainman:
how bout a little .303 action
View Quote


Actually, the British Army standard issue rifle for most of the late 19th Century and used during the Zulu war was the Martini-Henry .45 caliber short-chamber single shot rifle.  The standard cartridge of the time was the "Short Chamber Boxer-Henry .45 caliber".  Bullet weight was about 450 grains.  Max range was about 100 yards.

Here is a link:  [url]http://www.martinihenry.com/450577.htm[/url]

And here is a great link to the Zulu war:  [url]http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/[/url]

Play this music...sung in the orginal and still standing chapel (hospital during the battle) by the current chorus of the 24th Foot Regiment.  [url]http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/multimedia/index.htm[/url]  (Just click on the mp3 link!)
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:37:36 PM EST
Oops! Thought it was the 303. Reguardless, they sure did kill a lot of Zulus. And the Zulus were guite an efficient and brave fighting force. They had organization and tactics. But charging with spears against rank firing is difficult. I read in one of Capsticks books that the Zulus called their spears "ixwa", named for the sucking sound it made when pulled from an enemies chest. Now ain't that cool?
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:59:01 PM EST
If I were a Zulu, I would have attacked at night. Creep up as close as you can with as many men as you can and charge!  Its interesting when the Zulu leaders send a small group in to see how much firepower they have.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 8:28:27 PM EST
"Zulu Dawn" is also a GREAT film - about the larger battle of Isandlwana the day before Rorke's Drift.

Link Posted: 1/1/2004 9:40:21 PM EST
Yeah, that Roarke's Drift battle film was a good one, but only a sidenote to what happened at Isandlawana.  
These african tribes leaned slow.  14 years after this battle the Matable tried the same "horns of the bull" cresent shaped frontal assault with spears and sheilds on Cecil Rhodes merc troops who were armed with four of the newly invented Maxim guns and a steam powered electric searchlight deep in the Rhodesian bush.  In the first use of the Maxim machine guns, 50 Rhodesian soldiers were able to fend off 5,000 spear wielding savages, killing close to 2,000 of the attackers with almost no casualties for the whites. [url]http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyarmaments/machineguns/armmaxim.htm[/url]  It's a real interesting story.  
[url]http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/history/conquest/conquest.htm[/url].  The early history of Southern Africa is real interesting.  More wild the the wild west.  I recommend books by Wilber Smith.  I got the movie mini-series "Rhodes" too.  It's good but has a slight liberal slant.  I support the Rhodesian pioneers, but don't like what Rhodes and the British did to the Boers.  If the Boer Republics were left alone, there would be at least two decent countries in Africa today.  Stupid Brits.  
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 10:25:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde:
(snip)

Play this music...sung in the orginal and still standing chapel (hospital during the battle) by the current chorus of the 24th Foot Regiment.  [url]http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/multimedia/index.htm[/url]  (Just click on the mp3 link!)
View Quote


I highly doubt the 24th Foot in 1879 was singing "Men of Harlech"- it wasn't a Welsh regiment until 1881, when it went from being the 2nd Warwickshires to the South Wales Borderers. With few Welshmen in the ranks, more than likely the mostly English regiment  were singing "The Warwickshire Lads".....
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 10:26:05 PM EST
ah it's just a bunch of wampant welsh whoopee.

No I seen you, You aren't dead.  

Great movie, great song.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 10:35:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
ah it's just a bunch of wampant welsh whoopee.

View Quote


Well what else would one expect? Stanley Baker, the star, was an activist for Welsh nationalism, and independence. The movie's director, whose name escapes me, was a blacklisted US Communist from the McCarthy era. Between the two of them, anything to make the English establishment look bad, was good....

"I say, pot that chap- that's a good fellow, pot that chap!"
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 11:23:16 PM EST
I love those old movies.

What was the movie where the Zulus captured that guy and a couple of his buddies, who were killed, but he got away and was chased through the brush for days until finally making it to a British fort? That was a great flick.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 11:59:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2004 11:59:49 PM EST by Zardoz]
I'll say one thing about the British:


Rag on 'em all ya want, but when they're backed into a corner, they sure as hell come out swingin'.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 3:53:09 AM EST
Great movie.  

I remember not too long ago the History Channel had a piece on investigating how the larger British column got wiped out by the Zulus.  With the Martini Henri rifles' firepower, it is assumed that the British could have put up more resistance.

One theory they tested was that in rapid fire, the MH rifles could, due to the black powder fouling, lock up when hot.  They proceeded to test one and, sure enough, after about 10-13 shots, the rifle's action couldn't be opened.  I would imagine that would be a sinking feeling should that happen with a couple thousand speer carrying warriors bearing down on you.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:07:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By mattja:
I love those old movies.

What was the movie where the Zulus captured that guy and a couple of his buddies, who were killed, but he got away and was chased through the brush for days until finally making it to a British fort? That was a great flick.
View Quote


The Naked Prey with Cornel Wilde.  Excellent movie!
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:13:54 AM EST
I can see how "Zulu" could be considered on the same par as "BlackHawk Down."

Yep. Very good movie. Excellent even.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:18:14 AM EST
How appropriate that I was shooting my Webley and posted this yesterday.  It was a coincidence, but a nice one.

[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=221522[/url]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:43:26 AM EST
Check out  Museum Replicas. They found a bunch of orig Victorian Era British arms in an abandonned compound in Northern Indiana. Among there are the Martini Henry.


http://66.0.193.113/cgi-bin/www11650.storefront

CKMorley
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 5:21:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 5:24:20 AM EST by NAKED-GUNMAN]
Originally Posted By rainman:
Oops! Thought it was the 303. Reguardless, they sure did kill a lot of Zulus. And the Zulus were guite an efficient and brave fighting force. They had organization and tactics. But charging with spears against rank firing is difficult. I read in one of Capsticks books that the Zulus called their spears "ixwa", named for the sucking sound it made when pulled from an enemies chest. Now ain't that cool?
View Quote


Actually that is parially true..it is called an "ixway" and was designed by Chaka, for the largeness of the blade rather than the sound. I lived in Durban South Africa or a year, right in the heart of Zululand. I did missionary work with the Zulus back in 1989. I was able to learn "kitchen" Zulu language and also learn about their heritage/history. The word Zulu means "from the heavens", they actually believe this where they are descended from. Heaven.

They are some of the fiercest fighters in the world. If you look at it from their point of view, they were going against firearms/cannons with basically a long knife and club "knobcarry". Savages? Maybe in our "sophisticated" thinking..but, they have a 2 thousand year old heritage. Rent and watch the movie (Shaka Zulu)..if they have the 8 hour version watch it. It is loaded with Zulu heritage and history.

Their word for [b]enemy[/b] is "the enemy to be destroyed", in other words, you are not just an enemy. You will have to be killed if you are an enemy. This of course is from Shaka's reign, which to this day is comparable to Napaloen's romp during his tenure. Shaka conquered almost a third more of the land mass than Napoleon. Amazing, because they ran everywhere without horses or wheeled vehicles.

I learned so much about taking the limits off yourself and completing a task. They are an incredibly strong willed people and the Zulus were [b]NOT[/b] the tribe pushing anti-apartheid...they were perfectly content with living in peace with whites. It was the Xkhosas and other tribes who wanted to turn Suid Afrika into Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. With the help of our liberals and Hollywood idiots, they've pretty much succeeded in expelling whites from any power source or rule over the country. Probably in the next 20 years..most whites will either have left S.A. or congregate in certain cities/terroritories. Leaving the last century's progress in ruins...much like the former Rhodesia.

Don't get me started...it is sad to see the denegration of a country just because another country "thinks" it knows how to change them.

Liberalism is a failure. This is another example of liberals attempting to do well and screwing the entire system up. Thus leading to more pain and misery for "innocent" people. You cannot just socially engineer 7 tribes and three foreign settlers (English, Dutch and Indians) with "feel" good politics. It does'nt work, nor will it ever work. Someone always has to lead...and someone to follow. The tribes in S.A. do [b]NOT[/b] get along. And no western political system will solve their problems. They hate each other more than they hate whites. This is why whites are still alive and not embroiled in a ethnic cleansing by Mandela...who is a communist at heart BTW.

It is amazing what our media has done to "educate" our nation to what has happened in S.A. You will have no clue to what is actually the truth until you ask someone from there or go and visit.

South Africa has some of the most beautiful scenery in the world. Everyone should be so lucky to visit S.A., it is breathtaking to say the least. I kid you not...I would sometimes sit for hours in the bushveld and just watch the wildlife and change of day...unreal. Something everyone should see at least once. This ain't no drive thru Zoo...this is the reall thing.


Blathering now...I love South Africa. Beautiful country.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 10:54:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 10:57:05 AM EST by MonkeyGrip]
Excellent post NAKED-GUNMAN.  I've been enthralled with the history of southern Africa since I read my first novel by Wilbur A. Smith.  Like I said the Wild West (of the U.S.) while good is not as interesting in comparison.  I didn't realize that the Zulu were much less anti-white than the Xhosa.  That's interesting.  
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