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Posted: 4/25/2001 5:37:03 PM EDT
I just have a few general questions for some of you body builders out there.  I'n not trying to be a pro or anything, just looking to put on some mass, and bulk up a bit.  Just so you know right now I'm 5'6" 140lbs, body fat about 6%, and would like to put on 10-15 lbs.  All I am taking for supplements are protein shakes, and the powder form of ProPerformance creatine.

I think the split I have right now is ok, on Mon & Thurs I work chest, triceps and shoulders.  Tues & Fri I work back, biceps, and forearms.  Wed is legs, and cardio.  If I get out on the weekend I just do cardio, and I do abs everday.

Do you know of any websites that give good discriptions of different exercises?  I am pretty limited in the exercises I know that work biceps, forarms and back; so that is where I need the most help.

Protein shakes, right now I use whey protein from Optimum.  Is this the best type of shake to be taking?  How long can they be mixed and still be effective?  I would like to blend some fruit and stuff in to make it taste better, but would only do that if I can make a couple days worth without making it less effective.

To bulk up is there anything I should do other than eat a lot 5-6 times a day?  When I have the mass and want to get "cut", should I do/take anything other than lots of cardio?

Thanks for the info, if you think there is anything else I should know please provide info and/or links.  Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 5:45:15 PM EDT
You will have to stay on a weight routine for maintenance, as "lots of cardio" alone will reduce bulk...don`t overdo the supplements, and keep them in line with the amount of work you do. what you`re doing now sounds pretty straight. what kind of weight are you pushing!...personally, i`ve been out pretty much since football day`s, but the kid is heavy on it right now. have a web site (you probably have) but i`ll dig it up and pass along.....B&G
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 6:17:20 PM EDT
Just a few tips and comments:

1.) Whey protein is by far one of the best supplements I've ever taken (and still occasionally use).  You're not a big guy, so one shake per workout-day will probably suffice.  I mix my Designer whey protein with about 32oz. of milk to make about a 60gr. protein shake, which, combined with pastas, lean meats, and other dairy products is plenty of protein for a guy like you for the "regeneration period" that your muscles need.

2.)  Muscle Building + Cardio does not mix very well.  While you're not damaging yourself in any way by it, the only problem with cardio is that it has a tendency to pull from your muscle growth.  I.E., if you do so much cardio along with muscle building, that your body doesn't have enough energy (complex carbs) to sustain yourself, it will eat what it needs from your [b]protein supply[/b]...not good.  To offset this, eat plenty of semolina noodles.  Good ol' vermacelli pasta noodles at the grocery store will supply your body with enough carbohydrates both before AND after workout, and have a surprisingly large amount of protein per serving.  A bowl of pasta with a bit of marinara and a protein shake to drink is my ULTIMATE power meal.

3.)  For Biceps, a good way to get started is using the full bar (as opposed to barbels) and  a bench with elbow supports (for the "dead weight" lifting exercise).  Find sets/reps that work for you, and here's a hint: at the bottom of the lift, where your arms are just starting to lift the bar, lift a few inches and hold for just a couple of seconds, before you complete the repetition.  This will add bicep muscle quickly, and develop some nice forearms as well.

For back, I use the Lattimus Bar (Lat Pulldown).  Do 3 sets, pull behind your back to where the bar is touching your neck (or as low as you can go) and try to get around 10-15 reps in each set.  Not only will this build your back, but you will also receive as a bonus gift a LOVELY set of trapezius (area between shoulder and neck) muscles.  I'm only 200 pounds, but shoulders really add a "dominating" appearance to your figure.

If you need advice for chest exercises...go somewhere else.  I can lat pulldown 200 pounds clean many times, but I can't even get close to benching my own weight!!!  (One of the problems when you go to the gym alone:  no spotter).

Just keep chuggin' down those shakes [:P]
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 7:06:35 PM EDT
Don't forget that a couple of raw eggs in the shakes will give your coat that lustrous sheen.

(Edited because some of you don't get the egg reference to an animals coat. I am a Bigfoot. You know,big,strong,covered with fur. Old wives tale about giving your dog a raw egg to improve their coat. Get it?)
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 7:22:28 PM EDT
What I've been learning is don't count on the supplements to provide the additional protein and nutrition that you need.  You need to eat real food to get that and use the supplements as supplements instead of as meals.  I've recenting switched my diet and excersize and have been adding weight daily.  It's too soon to actually see where it's going.  Drink a lot of milk, eat a lot of lean meat products, eat fresh fruit and vegetables with each meal.  Just eating a lot of food won't necessarily help, it needs to be the right kind of food as described above.  Once you get a good meal schedule going, then figure out where the supplements fit in.

Typically the pros work a muscle only once every 5 days or once a week.  I've been following that with pretty good results.  You might want to put more time in between training the each muscle.  I typically do 3 excersizes for each muscle with 4 sets of between 8 and 15 reps.

Another thing I noticed with your routine is that you are working out dependent muscles on the same day.  Everyone has their own idea of what muscles to pair up, but this is how I see it.  When you train your chest your tricepts are also being worked out.  That means by the time you get to working your tricepts they are already fatigued and you can't push them as hard.  The same goes for the back and biceps.  I try to train biceps/triceps on day and the other day chest and back.

If you are just looking to add 10-15 pounds and just started working out, the creatine really won't do that much for you.  Instead make sure you are taking a good multi-vitamin.  Without the underlying nutrition it won't matter how much weight you push or how many supplements you take, your body won't have what it needs to repair itself from the workout.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 7:37:29 PM EDT
A couple of raw eggs, at best,only blocks your uptake of biotin at worst will have you hugging the toilet with salmonela poisoning. Rule number one: be extra critcal of supplement makers claims. most are pure fabrication or are based on non peer reviewed studys--caveat emptor. For most strength athelets(this includes body builders) that are not using ergogenic aids(anabolic steroids, HGH etc) working out at high intensity more than three or four hours PER WEEk is counterproductive and aerobic work will reduce your results even further. More than 20-25 grams of high qualty protien at a sitting, literaly, goes down the toilet--space it out 18-22gr every 4hours or so with some carbohydrates(or your body will burn it instead of use it for muscle building) . Highly trained atheletes that are near their genetic potential may only be able to work out at high intensity(the only way to work out for max effect)for an hour or two every week or they slip into an overtrained state. Your best bet is to go to the library and check out the various journals of sports physiology and medicine and associated literature and base your training on the facts. Last but not least, stick with a foundation of brutaly hard compound movements(squats, deadlifts,declined bench presses etc) and be sparing of the "isolation"movements the are only slightly effective.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 7:48:36 PM EDT
Sites: Yahoo clubs - Mikes Anabolic Steroids.

FWIW: do not use 'juice' the short and long term side effects can be devistating. However, there is some great info and you can link to some good natural sites.


Concentrate on core excercises: Squats, Bench, Cleans, and dead lifts.

Work one major muscle group per day - only. Give your self at least 48 hr break from that group.

Work in 3 month cycles. First cycle high rep low weight - no set less than 15 reps, try to stick between 15 - 20. Second cycle - power - low rep heavy weight - no more than 6 reps. Stay between 1-6. Last cycle: strength - sets of 8 -12.

Diet: this is at least 50% of the puzzle. Protein intake - minimum of 1 gram per pound of body weight - better if you can do 1.5 grams/ #. Do your homework, but Whey protein is the best. Eat plenty of real food, inclusive of veggies. Watch your sugar intake - too much will burn up your protien. Do not forget the water. Think like a gallon a day - esp if you are taking creatine.

Suppliments: Understand most of this stuff is a waste of money. More importantly understand that they are generally untested and can be dangerous. Lastly, understand that regardless of the claims - NOTHING works like juice (testosterone, anabolic, growth hormorne). Now speaking of creatine - at the minimum take this with fruit juice. Stimulants - thermogenic suppliments do work. ECA stacks are better for short term burst engery like going to the gym. (ECA - Ephedra, Caffine, Asprin). Andro - yes it does work - do your homework - watch for estrogen build up - bitch tit aint cool. Do not do Andro for longer than one 3 month cycle in one year.

Warm up and stretch. Yes I said strech  - every day.

Learn how to deal with and prevent rotator cuff injuries. If you wanna big bench - you are going to go through this.

Use a spotter - you can safely lift more and progress faster.

Use a full range of motion. Do the work slowly. Concentrate on the muscle as you are working it.

Most importantly - have a purpose when you go into the gym.

Good luck.

If you contemplate using either legal or illegal supplements, do your home work - there is a ton of info on both. Then ask yourself - is this worth it? Is this worth the possibility of shortening my life or reducing the quality of my life?

I mean it - there are a whole lot of physiological and psychological effects that both legal and illegal supplements can do to a person. Most of which, the users never know about until it is too late.

Good Luck

Link Posted: 4/25/2001 7:57:41 PM EDT

The "split"  or "push pull theory" your using is perfect....  Your actually giving your muscle tissue 3 and 4 days to repair with this...  and as important, stretched ligaments and tendons..  

The only thing I question is why your only hitting legs once a week?

The cardio I would loose, unless you are trying to cut up and loose weight...  the only cardio you need to be doing on a bulking regiment is warming up...  warming up your body core for the workout...  meaning 10 minutes on the treadmill and some stretching.... If you absolutely feel you need cardio...  save it for Sunday...

Whey is Purest form of protein, plus the pro performance has shorter and longer forms of amino acids.

You should be taking in 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day depending how radical your workouts are....

MY regiment would be as follows

Back, Biceps then Legs...  Mon & Thurs...  Back includes lat work....

Chest, shoulders, triceps...   Tues. & Thurs ...      

You could do calves and forearms on your off days, or if you have enough energy include calf's with legs..  and  forearms after Tri's

Have you looked into creatine?  I take a liquid form, 20 minutes before the workout...
its amazing how you get those extra reps and weight when your muscle doesn't burn out as fast!

I believe its about the burn and intensity of your reps and sets...  negatives are great for that ultimate burn and failure if your fortunate enough to have a partner...  

You should be using a weight that your burning out bad in the 8th to 12th rep.....

I also believe that doing over 10 sets per body part is a waste of time...  if your reps and sets are super Intense!  

and of coarse...Your diet is  80% of it....

Don't rest over a minute between sets, better yet over 45 seconds between sets...

Good Luck...  Ed Avila Sr. may be able to give you some good advice too...  [:)]

realist out
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 8:03:50 PM EDT
The best Diet is the IsoCaloric diet. Buy the Book BodyOpus by Dan Duchaine it's got some good info.

FACT: You won't get big naturally.

FACT: If uswed under "STRICT" doctor supervision. Anabolic Steroids can help you gain lean muscle mass.

FACT: Anabolic Steroids when used incorrectly can land you either in Jail or in the Hospital.

FACT: 99.9% of Gym Roids are Fake or Basement counterfeits, DO NOT PLAY WITH YOUR HEALTH.

Periodize your training.

Rest enough.

Control yout boose intake, since it can take up to 48 hrs for your body to recover.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 8:09:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 11:27:03 PM EDT
All of that suplement stuff is bullshit!

You want to gain weight then eat like a horse!
Power feed 3-4 times a day, snack between meals, eat before you go to bed, drink plenty of beer and eat chips!
Don't forget to go back for seconds and to take two desert servings.

Oh yea, don't exercise!
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 12:43:30 PM EDT
The best Diet is the IsoCaloric diet. Buy the Book BodyOpus by Dan Duchaine it's got some good info.


Ariel is on the money - Dan Duchaine destroyed his body and (if I remeber correctly) went to prision thanx to juice. He has written an excelent book about it as well.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 12:53:17 PM EDT
I could go on and on and on about this subject (I've been lifting for eight years and I have a BS in Exercise and Sports Science), but I would just recommend the book "Body for Life" by Bill Phillips.  It has everything in it (including diet) and it works.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 1:26:39 PM EDT
Why do people keep suggesting to drink milk?  Milk does contain protien but it also contains quite a bit of estrogen, a female hormone that works against testosterone.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 1:45:00 PM EDT
Anyone gonna post self pics to back up their personal training programs?

I'd like to see what results can come from these different approaches.

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