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Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:05:59 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
@low_country the bet with you was show the math, you have not done it. here we are 7 pages later and you have not posted one equation. @scuba_steve was the mod I contacted.

@sykkone maybe I did screw up on the math, and I would not be surprised. Do you accept the premise of the riddle is is it guaranteed that every time ( or even most ) the path the monk took up would match place and time of the monk on the way down. With the distance from bottom and time set on the first day (  at each distance having its own time ) ?

@aggiesq electrician by trade, head estimator for a large electrical contractor. 30 years in the trade.
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Let me put it this way: would you be willing to give me a graph of the first day with time as one axis, and distance as the other axis?

The reason I ask is because you keep talking about the first day's trek being fixed. If you provide that, I think we can both agree where on that graph the second day's trek begins. Even if we blank the first day's trek out on that graph, we'll end up with 2 graphs we can overlay, without ending up with double values on an axis.
VP
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:13:54 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:

 The kids at St Jude thank you for your donation.

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You know what. I am willing to make a contribution to them anyways. So even if the mods agree that you did not satisfy the bet they still get the money. Heck if the mods say you did I will still send you a mag. Either way the kids and family gets some money.

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:14:13 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


The bet was for him to post the math proving it, he did not. I will admit I cant prove it wrong. But he did not post the math proving it right, I see it as a wash. I am willing 100% to pay it, in a heart beat if any mod or staff feel he accepted the bet and did his end. For a bet to be valid to me it has to be accepted. also if I bet you that you could not jump 20 feet high with nothing but your leg power, it does not mean I have to do it to win.
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You don't understand beads on a string.

a function (time in hr ?
distance from homemonastery in miles) and so you would have one function f,f(8)=0,f(20)=d
and another g,g(8)=d,g(20)=0
, where d
is the distance between the monasteries. Also, we must assume both f
and g
are continuous on [8,20]
(as all functions modelling nature, pretty much, are). Thus, h=g-f
is also continuous on [8,20]
and h(8)=-d0
so there must be time t
, 8<t<20
where h(t)=f(t)-g(t)=0
, as a consequence of Intemediate Value Theorem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_value_theorem). At (time) t
, therefore, we have f(t)=g(t)
, so the two monks are at the same place.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:16:35 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


You know what. I am willing to make a contribution to them anyways. So even if the mods agree that you did not satisfy the bet they still get the money. Heck if the mods say you did I will still send you a mag. Either way the kids and family gets some money.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/st_jude_jpg-2965957.JPG
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Well, that's actually pretty awesome and I'll take back my welch comments.

Thanks for making good on it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:18:31 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

Let me put it this way: would you be willing to give me a graph of the first day with time as one axis, and distance as the other day?

The reason I ask is because you keep talking about the first day's trek being fixed. If you provide that, I think we can both agree where on that graph the second day's trek begins. Even if we blank the first day's trek out on that graph, we'll end up with 2 graphs we can overlay, without ending up with double values on an axis.
View Quote

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:19:09 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162736_monk_day_one_jpg-2965962.JPG
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Time is one axis not two
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:21:39 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162736_monk_day_one_jpg-2965962.JPG
View Quote

Also the distance would not be equal for them to be in the same place.

For them to be in the same place we let x equal distance of trip.
Let y equal distance traveled of up monk and z equal distance traveled of down monk.

For them to be in the same place
Z=x-y
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:52:17 PM EDT
[#8]
“At any point on the second day, will the monk be at the exact same point at the exact same time that he was the previous day?”

The poll question is still a problem.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 2:56:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:02:45 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:

I'm just getting here. What's the amount of the bet? I'm almost willing to pay it myself if that means I don't have to read 9 pages.  
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Everything is taken care of.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:08:52 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

I'm just getting here. What's the amount of the bet? I'm almost willing to pay it myself if that means I don't have to read 9 pages.  
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I think we're good. I asked for a few bucks to VCDL, and @Low_Country asked for a few bucks to St. Jude instead of mags.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:28:53 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162736_monk_day_one_jpg-2965962.JPG
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Let me put it this way: would you be willing to give me a graph of the first day with time as one axis, and distance as the other day?

The reason I ask is because you keep talking about the first day's trek being fixed. If you provide that, I think we can both agree where on that graph the second day's trek begins. Even if we blank the first day's trek out on that graph, we'll end up with 2 graphs we can overlay, without ending up with double values on an axis.

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162736_monk_day_one_jpg-2965962.JPG

That's the problem. Any point on that graph will have 2 separate times. That needs to be addressed. 1 graph or 2 graphs, 1 criteria per axis.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:41:50 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:

Time is one axis not two
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Time is a flat circle.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:45:21 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:



Time is a flat circle.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Time is one axis not two



Time is a flat circle.

A blank concavity, devoid of reason.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:51:04 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162736_monk_day_one_jpg-2965962.JPG
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Let me put it this way: would you be willing to give me a graph of the first day with time as one axis, and distance as the other day?

The reason I ask is because you keep talking about the first day's trek being fixed. If you provide that, I think we can both agree where on that graph the second day's trek begins. Even if we blank the first day's trek out on that graph, we'll end up with 2 graphs we can overlay, without ending up with double values on an axis.

here is the one I did the other day. The time of day for the monk is on the right side, distance is on the bottom but not called out.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/497353/Scan2023-09-24_162736_monk_day_one_jpg-2965962.JPG

Attachment Attached File


your graph is fundamentally flawed.

quick edit

any point on the graph can only represent one time and one point of distance*.  If they're starting time is the same, it's the base line.  If they're starting distance* is opposite, its opposite ends.


*each monks distance walked is functionally irrelevant, you're looking for a location they met, not the miles each walked to said location.  Consider this axis mile markers

Attachment Attached File


I hope this helps
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 3:56:31 PM EDT
[#16]
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Might be easier for him with them showing elapsed time.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:25:11 PM EDT
[#17]
There are so many variables, so yes he might, but probably not.  For a single trip up the mountain and back the odds are low, but if he was to make enough trips up and back, the odds begin to grow towards a maybe yes.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:30:51 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
There are so many variables, so yes he might, but probably not.  For a single trip up the mountain and back the odds are low, but if he was to make enough trips up and back, the odds begin to grow towards a maybe yes.
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Read the last 10 pages then answer again
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:39:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:40:39 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


Read the last 10 pages then answer again
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Quoted:
Quoted:
There are so many variables, so yes he might, but probably not.  For a single trip up the mountain and back the odds are low, but if he was to make enough trips up and back, the odds begin to grow towards a maybe yes.


Read the last 10 pages then answer again


LOL...

Ignoring the syntax error (hint "spot" is defined "point" is not) doesn't make it go away. While the mathematical theorem that is also being discussed here is not in dispute, its applicability to the poll question has yet to be determined.

Was the "error" an accident on the part of the OP, or was it intentional? My logic professors would have made the leap from defined to undefined intentionally.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:46:38 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:


I get that, and it seems a bit yo obvious to be the correct answer/response and isn't how I construe the OP when he states 'same time of day'. To me, that means at the same time as shown on a clock. He would have to walk at exactly the same pace but up & down or lead/lag one way or the other while watching his clock to time it correctly.

In your explanation, he absolutely crosses his own path. However, there is no guarantee that it is at the same clock time during the day...



...this riddle is intentionally stated to allow for varying ways to construe its intent. Very sneaky
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regardless of each others pace, if they cross paths then they are at the same place at the same time.

instead of a single person or a hologram, you start from the bottom I'll start from the top. even though our speed will be different, we will cross paths at some point: i.e.: be at the same place at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:48:59 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
He can’t help it, it’s a random crossing in two trips…now tell him to repeat it day after day and get the exact same spot, same time and it changes.
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That's not the problem being asked. The time doesn't matter. The time doesn't have to be consistent. if he were twins and one started from the top, the other from the bottom would they ever pass each other?

what if one ran and the other crawled?

The specific time of day doesn't matter one bit. all that matters is that they will pass each other at some point. That point is when they are at the same spot at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:50:28 PM EDT
[#23]
I’m going to start a thread on the game show problem lol
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:53:18 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
I’m going to start a thread on the game show problem lol
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Please don't.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:54:39 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
I’m going to start a thread on the game show problem lol
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Link Posted: 9/25/2023 4:55:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Reading through this thread got me like:

Of course not

Wait. Yeah . Totally obvious.

Nope

Yep

Nope

Am I tarded?

Yes

Yes

No

Definitely tarded

Why do monks even love mountains so much?

Being a monk seems to be a huge waste of time.

This website is a huge waste of time.

Your mom's a huge waste of time.

My mom's dead fucker!

Yes to the monk thing.

Nope.

Lol. True Detective is awesome

Why did I cancel HBO Max?

Fuck that monk and his mountain climbing stupid ass. I hope he falls down them steps.

I should watch John Wick 4 again.

Why don't I have any Taran Tactical guns?

The wife should come to the office and show me the edge of the precious.

Ain't no poontang on Monk Mountain.

Etc.
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 7:44:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 9/25/2023 8:01:56 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:

Please don't.
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https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/The-gameshow-riddle/5-2674976/

Link Posted: 9/26/2023 10:26:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 1:40:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Didn't read all the pages and may be way late to the party, but wouldn't varable walking rates only change where they meet on the mountain but not the point in time.  Walking same rate, they meet in the middle.  Downhill faster, they meet below halfway.  Uphill faster, they meet above halfway.  But they will always meet at the same time.

Assuming point in time means by the clock.  I mean it is a different day, so it could be argued that it is a different point in time.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 1:53:19 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:
Didn't read all the pages and may be way late to the party, but wouldn't varable walking rates only change where they meet on the mountain but not the point in time.  Walking same rate, they meet in the middle.  Downhill faster, they meet below halfway.  Uphill faster, they meet above halfway.  But they will always meet at the same time.

Assuming point in time means by the clock.  I mean it is a different day, so it could be argued that it is a different point in time.
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Pretty much.

The two paths will always meet somewhere, assuming they start at the same time.  The speed is irrelevant to this point - speed only affects where the paths cross, not if they will cross.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 3:13:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Wow some real deep thinkers here.

If there is only one path, they HAVE to meet at some time. It doesn't matter exactly where. There is no way for them to "pass" each other without meeting.

Consider the following scenario:

The 2nd day, when he is headed down the mountain, another monk starts at the bottom and heads up. There is no way for them NOT to meet/pass each other if they both start at their prescribed points and finish within the allotted time.

or

Your wife is at Piggly Wiggly and you are at home. There is only one possible path between these two points. As she is leaving Piggly Wiggly, you are leaving your house (too late to stop her from spending money). At a certain point, you will pass each other, no matter how many lights either of you wait at.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 4:51:18 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
Wow some real deep thinkers here.

If there is only one path, they HAVE to meet at some time. It doesn't matter exactly where. There is no way for them to "pass" each other without meeting.

Consider the following scenario:

The 2nd day, when he is headed down the mountain, another monk starts at the bottom and heads up. There is no way for them NOT to meet/pass each other if they both start at their prescribed points and finish within the allotted time.

or

Your wife is at Piggly Wiggly and you are at home. There is only one possible path between these two points. As she is leaving Piggly Wiggly, you are leaving your house (too late to stop her from spending money). At a certain point, you will pass each other, no matter how many lights either of you wait at.
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How does this apply to the actual question?

At any point on the second day, will the monk be at the exact same point at the exact same time that he was the previous day?
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 5:08:15 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:


How does this apply to the actual question?

At any point on the second day, will the monk be at the exact same point at the exact same time that he was the previous day?
View Quote



Yes.
Do you have a hard time conceptualizing it?

Their virtual paths MUST cross at some point. There is no way for them not to. That is why the amount and duration of breaks, or pace, don't matter to this question. They are not specified.

And when the paths do cross:
It will be at the same place
It will be at the same time
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 5:12:54 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:


How does this apply to the actual question?

At any point on the second day, will the monk be at the exact same point at the exact same time that he was the previous day?
View Quote


Conceptualize the monk’s day 1 journey up the mountain occurring simultaneously as the day 2 journey down the mountain.

Will they meet?
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:03:15 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


Conceptualize the monk’s day 1 journey up the mountain occurring simultaneously as the day 2 journey down the mountain.

Will they meet?
View Quote


That’s not the question.

“Exact same point” is not “will they meet.” It is also not “will they pass by.”

“Exact some point” is not defined in the set up. Hence this particular presentation of the problem fails. Readers are not applying logic but instead are saying to themselves “I know this one” and proceeding to answer a familiar question instead of the one asked.



Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:11:48 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:


That’s not the question.

“Exact same point” is not “will they meet.” It is also not “will they pass by.”

“Exact some point” is not defined in the set up. Hence this particular presentation of the problem fails. Readers are not applying logic but instead are saying to themselves “I know this one” and proceeding to answer a familiar question instead of the one asked.



View Quote


Yes, it is the question, just phrased in a different way to help those who don’t understand, understand.

Is there a spot along the path that the monk will pass at precisely the same time of day on both trips?

Conceptualize the trips from two consecutive days occurring on the same day. Will the monks every meet each other on the path, i.e. be at the same place at the same time? Yes, they will.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:17:18 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:


That’s not the question.

“Exact same point” is not “will they meet.” It is also not “will they pass by.”

“Exact some point” is not defined in the set up. Hence this particular presentation of the problem fails. Readers are not applying logic but instead are saying to themselves “I know this one” and proceeding to answer a familiar question instead of the one asked.



View Quote

Jeeze, here we go again.  I was so hoping this was over.

The actual point on the path doesn't matter.  The actual time doesn't matter.

If 1st day monk was 3 miles into a 5 mile walk 6 hrs after he started, could 2nd day monk be 2 miles into his 5 mile walk 6 hrs after starting?

The answer is yes and they would be in the same spot, 3 miles up (same as 2 miles down) the mountain, at the same time, 2 pm (6hrs after 8 am).

Would two trains heading towards each other on the same track hit each other?  When they crash, they are in the same place at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:20:33 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:


Yes, it is the question, just phrased in a different way to help those who don’t understand, understand.

Is there a spot along the path that the monk will pass at precisely the same time of day on both trips?

Conceptualize the trips from two consecutive days occurring on the same day. Will the monks every meet each other on the path, i.e. be at the same place at the same time? Yes, they will.
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Words have meaning you are substituting your own.


Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:21:31 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:


That’s not the question.

“Exact same point” is not “will they meet.” It is also not “will they pass by.”

“Exact some point” is not defined in the set up. Hence this particular presentation of the problem fails. Readers are not applying logic but instead are saying to themselves “I know this one” and proceeding to answer a familiar question instead of the one asked.



View Quote

"Exact same point" is not the question in the OP.

"The riddle: Is there a spot along the path that the monk will pass at precisely the same time of day on both trips?"
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:26:29 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:


Words have meaning you are substituting your own.


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I italicized the question posed in the OP. It is not an ambiguous question.

But because some people can’t grasp the concept, it has been attempted to explain it several different ways.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:29:21 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:

Jeeze, here we go again.  I was so hoping this was over.

The actual point on the path doesn't matter.  The actual time doesn't matter.

If 1st day monk was 3 miles into a 5 mile walk 6 hrs after he started, could 2nd day monk be 2 miles into his 5 mile walk 6 hrs after starting?

The answer is yes and they would be in the same spot, 3 miles up (same as 2 miles down) the mountain, at the same time, 2 pm (6hrs after 8 am).

Would two trains heading towards each other on the same track hit each other?  When they crash, they are in the same place at the same time.
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I’m not questioning the theory. I know it well. I’m questioning the syntax error that should bring calculations to a stop as there is no constraint of the z axis.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:30:23 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:


I italicized the question posed in the OP. It is not an ambiguous question.

But because some people can’t grasp the concept, it has been attempted to explain it several different ways.
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Please read the question in the poll.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:30:56 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:

"Exact same point" is not the question in the OP.

"The riddle: Is there a spot along the path that the monk will pass at precisely the same time of day on both trips?"
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Please read the question in the poll.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:32:17 PM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:


Please read the question in the poll.
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I don’t understand the confusion about the question in the poll. It reads clearly enough to me.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:35:25 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


I don’t understand the confusion about the question in the poll. It reads clearly enough to me.
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I think he's asserting that to meet the condition the monk must pass over the same, let's say square millimeter, of the path. If the path is four feet wide, and the monk always walks on the right (and is not obese), he may walk past the spot but not be "on" it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:36:47 PM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:

I think he's asserting that to meet the condition the monk must pass over the same, let's say square millimeter, of the path. If the path is four feet wide, and the monk always walks on the right (and is not obese), he may walk past the spot but not be "on" it.
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Well that’s a level of pedantic I hadn’t considered.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 6:39:23 PM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:


Well that’s a level of pedantic I hadn’t considered.
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Exactly the thought that I had when I realized what the argument was.
Link Posted: 9/27/2023 8:22:01 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:

Exactly the thought that I had when I realized what the argument was.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Well that’s a level of pedantic I hadn’t considered.

Exactly the thought that I had when I realized what the argument was.




Rules are rules.
Link Posted: 9/28/2023 1:01:19 AM EDT
[#50]
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