Posted: 3/2/2001 10:11:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2001 10:51:32 PM EDT by oneshot1kill]
Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
I want to sell one of my post-ban AR15's to someone in my town. I am currently a resident of Westchester county, N.Y. and it is legal to own these weapons here. My question is focused on the legal way to sell this weapon privately. What do I need to do to complete a private sale of a long gun in my area? Do I have to go to a liscenced dealer and pay him to do a background check and the transfer of a post-ban AR15? Or can I just sell it and collect the cash? I want to keep things on the level...Thanks for any advice you can offer.
You should go to a gun dealer you trust and ask
him/her what the proper private sale method is.
I left New Jersey in 1987. For long guns the
person had to have a purchaser ID card issued by
the state through the local police dept.
For handguns they had to produce a permit to
purchase (1 gun, 1 time)also issue through the local PD. I never had any trouble but the
possiblity of abuse was always there. For
example refusal to issue permits or cards, or
refusal to even issue the paper work, or just
make you wait till you give up.
Here in West Virginia exchange money for gun and you are done. However if you do not personally know the buyer you should check for age and residence.
Before I got my FFL, I used this method and never had a problem.
1.)Write down the date, name, DOB, and driver's license / state ID number of the purchaser. You basically verify their state of residence when you look at their DL / ID for this information.
2.)Write down all identifying information on the firearm (Manuf., Model, Serial number, ect.)
3.)Have the purchaser sign for receipt of the firearm, and you sign as the seller.
4.)Exchange money for gun and you are good to go.
I know this all sounds extreme, but I am sure that we are all aware of firearms traces. Let's just say that you were the original purchaser of the gun in 1993 and that you sold it to a private individual in 1999. Let us also assume that you got no information on the purchaser. Fast forward to 2005 when Mr. ATF man shows up at your doorstep conducting a firearms trace due to the fact that your weapon was recovered at a crime scene. "Uh, no, I sold that gun to some guy at a gun show years ago. No, I have no idea who he was, I didn't particularly care."
Maybe Mr. ATF man would just shrug his shoulders and go away, but I wouldn't count on it. My bet is that he'd be back with friends and a warrant, but hell maybe I'm just paranoid. The point is this: I am not willing to subject my family to such needless federal intrusion just because I didn't take 2 extra minutes for my own piece of mind.
For those of you that feel just such a procedure is an intrusion on the buyer's privacy, or that it is tantamount to effecting registration at the private level, let me offer this to consider. We are all continually clamoring for the focus to be on the criminal who misuses the gun, not the gun or the lawful citizens who own similar guns. We are also fighting in many states to keep gun shows available because of the hyped up "loophole" of private sales that the left keeps playing up. If everyone would have followed this procedure years ago, none of these arguments would gain ground. It is not registration because it requires that a manual (and often time consuming) investigation be conducted, and only after the weapon is recovered at a crime scene. Seems to me that it only makes it easier to track down the person who actually misued the weapon without encroaching on the lawful gun owners in the process.
You must be in compliance with both federal and NYS law for a private firearms transfer. AFAIK there are no local restrictions for Westchester County residents except for the Westchester trigger lock law. There is a state wide trigger lock law as well.
I personally do not buy from or sell to anyone that I don't know personally. I also won't purchase a firearm in a private transaction that I don't know the history of.
If you really want to be "safe" have a licensed dealer do the transfer for you. It will cost you a few bucks but if you are concerned about who you are selling it to this will give some protection. The buyer will have to do a 4473 and a NICS check to receive the firearm.
The following persons are prohibited under federal law from possessing a firearm:
(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms?
Yes, a person who –
(1) Has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
(2) Is a fugitive from justice;
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable
(7) Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from
harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such
intimate partner; or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.
[18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n), 27 CFR 178.32(a) and (b)]
Would you please keep me informed on how your private sale went? I ask only because I used to live in upstate N.Y (Syracuse), and thought the whole state was anti-gun. To bring my rifles into the state (don't even want to mention handguns), I was informed that I HAD to ship them to a local dealer, and then had to "file" for them after a certain time period (I could of been misinformed, so if anybody can "set me straight", I'd appriciate it). On a side note, I was once pulled over in N.Y (I was a passenger in the vehicle), and my friend had a c.c permit. First thing the officer did when he approched us was ask my friend if he was carring his side arm! For those of you who aren't aware of N.Y gun laws, even if you store you're handgun LOCKED, empty, and stored away from ammo in a vehicle, you run the possibility of jail time if the police find the weapon in you're vehicle (the only way around this I have found is if you actually have a N.Y c.c permit, or your in route to an N.R.A sanctioned match). This info I rec. from the State Police, so again, if I'm incorrect, will sombody please update me. Thks
There is no state wide restriction on possession of long guns in NYS. There are jurisdictions like NYC which require registration of long guns. So unless you were in a jurisdiction that that has a local restriction you were misinformed.
Possession of a hand gun in NYS requires a permit under all circumstances. Even if your permit is restricted to your premise's, transporting a handgun in the manner you describe should not be a problem for legitimate purposes. There are also exceptions for competition and travel through the state.
If you have a carry permit that is restricted you are permitted to posses it upon your person in a motor vehicle. In any case carrying a firearm in violation of your restriction(s) is an administrative violation and not a criminal violation.
Once again there are local laws that restrict handgun possession in addition to NYS law.
Disclaimer: This is not legal advice. For legal advice consult a competent attorney who is familiar with the 20,000 firearms related law.[:D]
rkbar15, thanks for the info pertaining to N.Y gun laws, you seemed more informed than some LEO's that I have talked to. The big question I'd like to know is how did Hillary get in!!!!!!
13F: The problem with NYS is that every freakin' jurisdiction can pass it's own firearms related law. It's almost impossible to stay current. Could you imagine if every jurisdiction banned different types of vehicles from entering their jurisdiction!
What we need is a preemption law in NYS. If every firearms owner got off their butts and got involved with RKBA organizations in NY we just might get that enacted.
Don't ever expect LE to always give you the correct information. There's to many changes and new laws for them to always have the current information.