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Posted: 5/11/2002 10:30:09 PM EDT
And this is happening in "gun friendly" Arizona!
Son of controversial Second Amendment defender faces felony gun charges

By David M. Bresnahan
Published 5/9/02 12:59:00 AM


MESA, Ariz. - Six months after preventing a road rage incident from
escalating, what appears to be a politically motivated felony gun charge has
been filed.

Son of former Arizona Sheriff Richard Mack, also Richard, has been charged
with a felony for brandishing a firearm in November 2001, even though he
prevented an act of violence and defended himself against an attacker.

Arizona is known as a "right to carry" state because anyone can carry a
firearm. It is not necessary to conceal the firearm, and it does not matter
whether it is loaded or unloaded.

The younger Mack, 24, says he was being chased by someone he describes as a
"road rage maniac," who forced him off the road. Mack was fearful that he
would be attacked physically, so he went to his trunk and took out a
shotgun, which was unloaded.

He stood by the car holding the shotgun so it could be seen, and the
attacker immediately ended his pursuit.

"The entire incident ended peacefully, just as most self-defense situations
with guns do," explained the former sheriff.

When the Mesa police arrived on the scene they confiscated the shotgun, but
no other action was taken until now. The younger Mack has now been formally
charged with a felony.

The former sheriff said he cannot help but think the action against his son
by Maricopa County is politically motivated. He said, "A dangerous potential
felon is loose on the streets, and it takes the authorities six months to
charge Rich. Or did it take six months to finally figure out who his father

It was Sheriff Mack who successfully won an original filing in the U.S.
Supreme Court against the well-known "Brady bill."

His victory contributed to the prevention of an escalation of additions to
the Brady bill that were planned by gun control advocates. The ruling
protected state's rights and the Tenth Amendment.

"There were five Brady bills originally planned by the anti-gun tyrants,
each intended to be passed one year after the other. If all five had passed
you could have kissed your Second Amendment rights a big goodbye. At the
very least Gun Shows would be a thing of the past," explained Mack.

Indeed Brady II was introduced in the Senate in 1995 and died without a
vote. The planned Brady III, IV, and V were never introduced.

Mack says he made a lot of gun control advocates very angry for his
continued efforts to fight against them, and now he believes the
long-delayed charges against his son are evidence of that.

The Gun Owners of America is asking the public to help in the defense of the
younger Mack to prevent a dangerous legal precedent that may cause
difficulty for the future of the right to carry in Arizona.

Donations may be sent to: Rich Mack Defense Fund, P.O. Box 50911 Provo, Utah

Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:46:52 AM EDT
I'm thinking I might send a small donation. I'm going to do a little more research on this and on the father, but it sounds like he might be a big defender of gun owner's rights, even if he isn't local. Good things spread, not quite as quickly as bad things, but they do, none the less.

Thanks for pointing this situation out Imbroglio :)
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:04:00 AM EDT
FWIW, former Sheriff Mack is a great man.  Unlike Ashcroft/Bush, Mack actually fought against governmental infringement of our RKBA, and he won.  It cost him his job in the next election, and as far as I know, he hasn't been hired for another law enforcement position since (my info on that might be out of date by now).  He was staffing a table for GOA at the Puyallup gun show last time I saw him.

Assuming his son is a chip off ye olde block, he deserves our support.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 5:17:56 AM EDT
I'm sure they can file what ever charges they want to. But will the grand jury go along with it? If he pulled the weapon because he was in fear of his life, I don't see a conviction coming. (I don't think I would have pulled out an unloaded weapon, that is unwise and can get one killed.)
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 5:30:37 AM EDT
I don't know what the law in AZ is, but it sounds like they may just nail him for "brandishing."  With luck, he may get a sensible grand jury and it'll go nowhere. In FL, that would be brandishing - you're only supposed to bring out the gun when the threat is immediate, that is approaching you.  Yes, I know, not always done that way (rolling eyes), but the way it's "supposed' to be, especially in hindsight with the luxury of infinite time for analysis. Yes, a technicality, but half the stuff is done on technicalities. That 6 month business certainly sounds political to me, though; sort of looking to see what they could make of it. I couldn't tell from the article if the police were immediately on the scene, or if he called them.  
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 6:13:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 6:25:43 AM EDT
Where's the "road rage maniac" the the shotgun was brandished at?  Did they get a complaint from him or are the authorities just acting on Richard Mack's words?  It doesn't seem like it would be much of a trial without at least one witness for the prosecution.  All the arrsting sherriffs would have is Richard's own words, which would be hearsay for them to testify to.  This smells very political.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 6:26:32 AM EDT
Just let me know where to send the money.

Yet another instance of Government Without, Against, and To the people. [pissed]
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 6:28:27 AM EDT
Must be election time in Arizona.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 6:50:38 AM EDT
I have met Sheriff Mack on several occasions and had the opportunity to talk to him for a long time.  He's definitely the kind of person you want as a sheriff.  He is a decent, honorable man.  There is no "controversy" surrounding him at all (unless you are a gun banner); he chose to interpret the Constitution as it was written, sued in court, and won.  He is currently working as a spokesman for GOA.  
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:47:27 PM EDT
This was never reported in the local media.  

I am suspicious that this isn't a scam to solicit money...

Although they did say it was Mesa police who arrested him. Mesa police have had a string of very ugly cases involving false arrest and mistaken identity going back two to three years or more. Also some nasty internal scandles involving sexual harrassment of female officers and officers soliciting sex from women in exchange for not filing traffic citations.

So this is either political or fake.  If what the younger Mack said happened happened he would not be charged with anything. Road rage incidents ARE a big problem around Phoenix, and if Mack did what he said he did he did exactly what he was supposed to, including retreving his weapon. No one has ever been cited before for this in this county.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:58:04 PM EDT
I have to agree with ArmdLbrl, never heard about it in the local media.

Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:58:55 PM EDT
Does anyone know anything about brady 2,3,4 etc ? I never heard of any of those.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 2:59:45 PM EDT
My neighbor is a sargeant for Mesa PD, I go on ridealongs with him.  Ill ask him later tonite if he knows or can tell me anything about this.  Ill report back later.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:00:19 PM EDT
I'm thinking I might send a small donation. I'm going to do a little more research on this and on the father, but it sounds like he might be a big defender of gun owner's rights, even if he isn't local. Good things spread, not quite as quickly as bad things, but they do, none the less.

Thanks for pointing this situation out Imbroglio :)
View Quote

Mack is the Nazi who was putting out that infamous FBI flyer last year calling all sorts of people enemies of the USA and asking the public to report "suspicious" people with very broad definitions of terrorism.

I hear he's a good sherrif and pro-gun, but I will never forget that flyer. It was circulated on here.


Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:04:31 PM EDT
i heard of this on the gcn radio network.. as i understand it there was no ammo available for the shotgun at the time.

he needs all the support he can get....
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:11:01 PM EDT
My neighbor is a sargeant for Mesa PD, I go on ridealongs with him.  Ill ask him later tonite if he knows or can tell me anything about this.  Ill report back later.
View Quote

I thought Mesa PD banned ridealongs?

If so, how are you able to?
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:11:09 PM EDT
Ohh, how convinent.

The [i]Arizona Republic's[/i] archives are off line, and they have no estimate of when they will be back. [url]http://www.azcentral.com/archive/[/url]

So the only way to check on this story is to drive into the Burton Barr Central Library in Phoenix and dive into the stacks...

Mesas own paper the [i]East Valley Tribune[/i] doesnt even HAVE a online archive... [url]http://www.aztrib.com/[/url] so again a physical trip to the the Library is the only way to confirm that this incident even happened.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:50:21 PM EDT
Based on the available information, I would probably have reacted the same way as Richard Jr.

I am not going to let an enraged man get anywhere near my personal space if I am armed. In a tussle, he could get ahold of my sidearm and use it against me.

I prefer to end things b/f they start.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 3:59:56 PM EDT
I wouldn't get too upset about this. He'll ask for a jury, and they will side with him. We got guns and ammo in every house here in Phoenix. The reason for that is road rage idiots.

They had another case like that 6 months ago, except the guy chased the road rager down and shot him dead while on the phone with 911. He was never charged.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 4:41:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 6:28:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the correction. I don't want to dis someone who doesn't deserve it.

Whatta ya expect anyway? I'm in Ohio.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 11:44:26 PM EDT
What I can tell you is that he was probably charged with - reckless display of a firearm. It falls under Disorderly conduct 13-2904A6. Its a class 6 felony and if charged would get plead down to a C1M in a heartbeat (If it wasnt thrown out by the prosecutor). It probably isnt a standard misconduct involving weapons or Agg assault charge. I wont make any assumptions until I could get a copy of the report. Sometimes an Officer's witnesses tell a different story than the suspects story.
    To prevent this a few suggestions - Don't whip out a gun in an argument or fist fight for that matter. Keep it concealed or nearby in case you need it. What will it sound like if you have several people calling in a "man with a gun?" Every marked unit within 4 miles is running code3 to call, air unit, k-9 etc.. . Their main focus will be to disarm the subject with the gun and then take statements. It might make the person with the gun automatically sound like the suspect. It will be taken into consideration what steps you took to avoid confrontation. IE call the Police first from a cell phone...etc..
  I can tell you that these road rage things work both ways. But remember, with carrying a gun comes more responsibilty. If you carry a gun know what your rights and limits are. Most CCW classes do a good job of teaching what is probably ok and what is not. There are many people that excercise their right to carry a firearm in Arizona . Many of these people in Arizona that carry guns  don't know what the weapons related laws are. Ive seen a call where a guy pulled a gun on two 12 year olds fighting or a restaurant Mngr pulled a gun on a customer that requested his money back for a unsatisfactory meal.
  Every state/county has different laws and different opinions. If you carry a gun do yourself a favor and educate yourself. It will save you a lot of greif if you have an incident.      
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 3:18:05 AM EDT
What Ohaiclan said.  Definitely true.  SOmetimes you have to bite your tongue and just go away.  If cornered and attacked, yes, let 'em have it, but in this PC society, play acting is the order of the day.

As the instructor in the CWL class here said, " Put your pride and ego in your pocket..."  Your mind is your first weapon, your cell phone <---heavily emphasized, the second.  The gun is the last resort.  

The caase sounds political to me.  And, no one yet explained why he was still there for the police.  If they arrived at the incident, why not nail the other guy, too.  If it was all later, who brought it all about.
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