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Posted: 9/9/2013 11:15:48 AM EST
If these adapters are considered supressors themselves, as opposed to the oil filter, then how are flash hiders intended to mount supressors not considered the suppressor, and not the can itself?



Also, these guys consider a shoelace a MG yet I can go to K-mart and buy one, so what makes these different?

Furthermore, you need mens rea and actus rea, so how is a stamp a requirement, by just buying one of these?

ATF rules are a big convoluted circus, no?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:17:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:17:30 AM EST
Intent
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:18:40 AM EST
ATF doesn't have any oversight and can make a decision on a whim.

Do not invoke logic when considering the ATF.

FBHO.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:18:44 AM EST
Not to shit on a thread, but this all becomes moot if we don't act fast.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1529444_FIREMISSION__NFA_Proposal_41P_Comment_Period_Opens_9_9_.html
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:26:20 AM EST
how can the atf determine, alter and interpret laws?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:45:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2013 11:46:09 AM EST by SageEBR]
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Originally Posted By xachary82:
how can the atf determine, alter and interpret laws?
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They have to "interpret" the laws to enforce them, and they don't care that the overstep their bounds when doing this because nobody ever comes down on them for it.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:50:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SageEBR:


They have to "interpret" the laws to enforce them, and they don't care that the overstep their bounds when doing this because nobody ever comes down on them for it.
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Originally Posted By SageEBR:
Originally Posted By xachary82:
how can the atf determine, alter and interpret laws?


They have to "interpret" the laws to enforce them, and they don't care that the overstep their bounds when doing this because nobody ever comes down on them for it.


Loosen the tinfoil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedure_Act
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 11:57:19 AM EST
Individual baffles aren't suppressors.

A stack of baffles, or a monocore, by itself, isn't a suppressor.

A pipe, or even the outer sleeve, machined to fit a monocore, is not a suppressor.


Owning both the tube and the core (or baffles) IS a suppressor, even if they're disassembled.

The serial number must go on the externally visible component, therefore the tube is the serialized piece.


Clearly, an oil filter is not a suppressor.

Once you design or redesign it to be mounted on a firearm, however, it is.

That happens when you assemble it with the muzzle adapter.  The muzzle adapter is externally visible, and so can be serialized, which makes repair of the baffle stack easier.  
Remember, early suppressors with wipes needed frequent repair (like every 10-20 shots), so a user-replacable baffle stack is hardly unprecedented.


A QD muzzle adapter for a suppressor is not a component of the suppressor itself.  It is not required for the suppressor to function, only to hold it in alignment.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 12:05:19 PM EST
Monday: An M16 bolt carrier does not make an AR 15 fire in fully automatic and is not illegal.
Tuesday: An M16 bolt carrier is a machinegun part, and using one in an Ar15 is a felony.
Wednesday: An M16 bolt carrier does not make an AR 15 fire in fully automatic and is not illegal.
Thursday: An M16 bolt carrier is a machinegun part, and using one in an Ar15 is a felony.
Friday: An M16 bolt carrier does not make an AR 15 fire in fully automatic and is not illegal.
Saturday: An M16 bolt carrier is a machinegun part, and using one in an Ar15 is a felony.
Sunday: An M16 bolt carrier does not make an AR 15 fire in fully automatic and is not illegal.
Monday: An M16 bolt carrier is a machinegun part, and using one in an Ar15 is a felony.
Tuesday: An M16 bolt carrier does not make an AR 15 fire in fully automatic and is not illegal.
Wednesday: An M16 bolt carrier is a machinegun part, and using one in an Ar15 is a felony.
Thursday: An M16 bolt carrier does not make an AR 15 fire in fully automatic and is not illegal.



.......
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 12:14:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2013 12:15:50 PM EST by SageEBR]
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Originally Posted By badfish274:


Loosen the tinfoil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedure_Act
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Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By SageEBR:
Originally Posted By xachary82:
how can the atf determine, alter and interpret laws?


They have to "interpret" the laws to enforce them, and they don't care that the overstep their bounds when doing this because nobody ever comes down on them for it.


Loosen the tinfoil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_Procedure_Act


I am aware of the law and what I am saying is that nobody ever goes after them for not following it, unless I just imagined these things:

- People geting different answers on the same question depending on which person at the ATF they managed to contact.
- Outright different rulings on the same thing (1 - yes a shoestring is a machine gun, 2 - yes we still say it is, 3 - oops I guess it isn't)
- Expert witnesses provided by the ATF for court cases that have next to no knowledge of firearms
- ATF letters that have the weight of law but are not available for the public to look at or have any way of knowing about other than word of mouth.
- Arbritrary testing that will vary from case to case to determine the legality of a firearm since they do not set guidelines.
- The ATF helping the DOJ selling guns to mexican cartels with no oversight or plan of actually tracking them
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 12:22:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By xachary82:
If these adapters are considered supressors themselves, as opposed to the oil filter, then how are flash hiders intended to mount supressors not considered the suppressor, and not the can itself?

View Quote


More importantly...you likely have a threaded barrel for one of these "solvent traps" to work in the first place.  So you start out with a threaded barrel, and using the adapter you still end up with a threaded barrel...albeit a different thread.  There's no difference before and after unless you mount something else to it.  Same as a flash hider.
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