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Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:34:36 AM EDT
[#1]
read about 2.5 pages and then started to .

ya'll make my head hurt.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:39:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Recently, however, the Demilitarization Coding Management Office within the
DRMS recommended that small arms cartridge cases be given Code B. This
recommendation was accepted. Therefore, currently, fired military small arms
cartridge cases are Code B property that may be sold only if destroyed.


The above quoted information suggests that we now have a thread to pull on to find out who and what was behind this change.  

Why did DCMO recommend the change to a code that drastically altered what could be done with the cartridge casings compared with historical practices?

At whose behest?

This page says that the coding of a particular kind of thing can be "challenged" –– thus, it had to be a specific challenge from SOMEONE that got brass casings reclassified:  http://www.drms.dla.mil/pubaff/html/demil.html  

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest it was either someone in the executive branch (most likely department of justice), or a very liberal congress critter.

Because the challenge had to have been specific to the brass, that really makes it more likely this was an intentional thing done to hit at our interests.


Goddam.

1.  F-14 parts sold by mistake.
2.  Holy shit, how did that happen?
3.  Change codes in database for all items with Demil "XX" to Demill "YY" (Unobtanium-carbide rivet and small-arms brass)
4.  Problem solved, no more F-14 parts will bet lose (As will small-arms brass)
5.  Shitstorm!
6.  Oops, sorry, we did not realize that brass would be affected up by this
7.  Change Demil codes on following items back to "XX" from "YY", screen carefully to ensure proper line-items this time (Small arms brass OK to sell, just as before)
8.  Tards now changing target of conspiracy
9.  Shitstorm!

Really, it's that simple, or hard, depending on the amount of foil on your head. Anyone still screaming conspiracy is a retard.



Stop being an asshole.  

You stomped the opening poster, and called him a liar about this even happening.

Where is the information that "Change codes in database for all items with Demil "XX" to Demill "YY" (Unobtanium-carbide rivet and small-arms brass)" is what happened.

The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.

What is your basis for contending that every single thing in classification E was changed to classification B?    The stuff from the senator's office seems to be the closest thing to an official story we've got to work with.   What do you have to refute  it?  
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:48:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.


Ah, that makes it a conspiracy. I apologize.  Obviously an Obama mole planted to destroy the once-fired brass industry.

The conspiracy crap is retarded.

Can you explain to me in simple words how you read into Graham's info that this was done specifically to hurt gun owners?

Please.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:50:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Recently, however, the Demilitarization Coding Management Office within the
DRMS recommended that small arms cartridge cases be given Code B. This
recommendation was accepted. Therefore, currently, fired military small arms
cartridge cases are Code B property that may be sold only if destroyed.


The above quoted information suggests that we now have a thread to pull on to find out who and what was behind this change.  

Why did DCMO recommend the change to a code that drastically altered what could be done with the cartridge casings compared with historical practices?

At whose behest?

This page says that the coding of a particular kind of thing can be "challenged" –– thus, it had to be a specific challenge from SOMEONE that got brass casings reclassified:  http://www.drms.dla.mil/pubaff/html/demil.html  

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest it was either someone in the executive branch (most likely department of justice), or a very liberal congress critter.

Because the challenge had to have been specific to the brass, that really makes it more likely this was an intentional thing done to hit at our interests.


Goddam.


1.  F-14 parts sold by mistake
2.  Holy shit, how did that happen? Fix, fix, fix, ASAP!
3.  Change codes in database for all items with Demil "XX" to Demill "YY" (Unobtanium-carbide rivet and small-arms brass shared same code)
4.  Problem solved, no more F-14 parts will bet lose (no small-arms brass, either)
5.  Shitstorm!
6.  Oops, sorry, we did not realize that brass would be affected up by this
7.  Change Demil codes on following items back to "XX" from "YY", screen carefully to ensure proper line-items this time (Small arms brass OK to sell, just as before)
8.  Tards now changing target of conspiracy
9.  Shitstorm!


Really, it's that simple, or hard, depending on the amount of foil on your head. Anyone still screaming conspiracy is a retard.




The information in this thread is based on actual events, conversations, phone calls, and multiple levels of corroboration and an actual change in policy.


From what I can see, your assessment is PURE speculation and not much better than anything in here... tinfoil or otherwise.



Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:56:27 AM EDT
[#5]
We won!

Here is the poop I just got from Gov Liquidation.

This is the transcript of the live chat I just had.


Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Heidi'

Heidi: Welcome to our live chat service!  How may I assist you?

Todd: Hello Heidi

Heidi: Hi!~

Todd: I have been told that all spent brass cases are to be destroyed as part of the EUC.

Todd: I have also heard that this NEW policy is being reversed.

Heidi: That is partially correct.

Todd: What is the truth?

Heidi: That is also partially correct.

Todd: Can you clearify as to what is happening?

Heidi: We received a slight change in the mutilation requirements for expended cartridges. Effective immediately any expended mention 50 caliber(12.7mm) or smaller can be released without mutilation. This includes expended cartridges and links. All other expended munitions larger than 50 cal including grenade fuses and flare canisters etc must still be mutilated.

Todd: So this is fact as of right now?

Todd: Can you tell me the source of who made the chage of the EUC you mentioned??

Heidi: This is for all munitions, not just ones that require an EUC.

Todd: Great! who is the governing body that made the change back to allowing sales of 50 caliber and below without mutilation?

Heidi: This came from the Defense Logistics Agency.

Heidi: If you have any more questions or concerns, please email management.

Todd: Thank you for your time.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:56:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Recently, however, the Demilitarization Coding Management Office within the
DRMS recommended that small arms cartridge cases be given Code B. This
recommendation was accepted. Therefore, currently, fired military small arms
cartridge cases are Code B property that may be sold only if destroyed.


The above quoted information suggests that we now have a thread to pull on to find out who and what was behind this change.  

Why did DCMO recommend the change to a code that drastically altered what could be done with the cartridge casings compared with historical practices?

At whose behest?

This page says that the coding of a particular kind of thing can be "challenged" –– thus, it had to be a specific challenge from SOMEONE that got brass casings reclassified:  http://www.drms.dla.mil/pubaff/html/demil.html  

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest it was either someone in the executive branch (most likely department of justice), or a very liberal congress critter.

Because the challenge had to have been specific to the brass, that really makes it more likely this was an intentional thing done to hit at our interests.


Goddam.


1.  F-14 parts sold by mistake
2.  Holy shit, how did that happen? Fix, fix, fix, ASAP!
3.  Change codes in database for all items with Demil "XX" to Demill "YY" (Unobtanium-carbide rivet and small-arms brass shared same code)
4.  Problem solved, no more F-14 parts will bet lose (no small-arms brass, either)
5.  Shitstorm!
6.  Oops, sorry, we did not realize that brass would be affected up by this
7.  Change Demil codes on following items back to "XX" from "YY", screen carefully to ensure proper line-items this time (Small arms brass OK to sell, just as before)
8.  Tards now changing target of conspiracy
9.  Shitstorm!


Really, it's that simple, or hard, depending on the amount of foil on your head. Anyone still screaming conspiracy is a retard.




The information in this thread is based on actual events, conversations, phone calls, and multiple levels of corroboration and an actual change in policy.


From what I can see, your assessment is PURE speculation and not much better than anything in here... tinfoil or otherwise.





No, I just choose not to believe this change was anything else than a business decision at a level where all they know is a commodity, not how it is finally used once it off their books.

ETA:  More speculation!  

Quoted:
This supposedly came from Senator Lindsey Graham's office today:

Below is what Senator Graham's office has found.

They are monitoring the waiver request closely and should know something in the next 2-3 weeks.





Link Posted: 3/17/2009 11:59:26 AM EDT
[#7]
well if the DLA doesn't change its ruling,  GL business will be out of business, because more money is spent in 6 months on brass cartridges in this country than there is money spent on other stuff that GL sells, its in such high demand now I see $1 round brass coming by the end of the week.  This is starting to sound like capitalism has tanked and government control has taken over.

I am praying that the brass will be released again for civy & LE agency use, if not who will arm the cops?  Civies seem to have more of a disposable income than most departments do because they are hurting in many other ways than just lost revenue.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:00:38 PM EDT
[#8]
LOOK HERE






Quoted:
We won!

Here is the poop I just got from Gov Liquidation.

This is the transcript of the live chat I just had.


Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Heidi'

Heidi: Welcome to our live chat service!  How may I assist you?

Todd: Hello Heidi

Heidi: Hi!~

Todd: I have been told that all spent brass cases are to be destroyed as part of the EUC.

Todd: I have also heard that this NEW policy is being reversed.

Heidi: That is partially correct.

Todd: What is the truth?

Heidi: That is also partially correct.

Todd: Can you clearify as to what is happening?

Heidi: We received a slight change in the mutilation requirements for expended cartridges. Effective immediately any expended mention 50 caliber(12.7mm) or smaller can be released without mutilation. This includes expended cartridges and links. All other expended munitions larger than 50 cal including grenade fuses and flare canisters etc must still be mutilated.

Todd: So this is fact as of right now?

Todd: Can you tell me the source of who made the chage of the EUC you mentioned??

Heidi: This is for all munitions, not just ones that require an EUC.

Todd: Great! who is the governing body that made the change back to allowing sales of 50 caliber and below without mutilation?

Heidi: This came from the Defense Logistics Agency.

Heidi: If you have any more questions or concerns, please email management.

Todd: Thank you for your time.


Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:02:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
This supposedly came from Senator Lindsey Graham's office today:

Below is what Senator Graham's office has found.

They are monitoring the waiver request closely and should know something in the next 2-3 weeks.

As you know, this would be a big problem for law enforcement agencies with
low budgets (most of them) and recreational shooters who depend on expended
military brass for reloading if the waiver is not granted. There is no
"security risk" for selling used brass in bulk. It was probably just a
short-sighted bureaucratic move that did not foresee the unintended
consequences.

Military property is subject to certain coding, according to its type and
use, whether it can be sold commercially and, if so, under what
restrictions.

According to the sales division of the Defense Reutilization and Marketing
Service (DRMS), fired small arms cartridge cases, until recently, were DEMIL
(demilitarization) Code E, meaning that they could not be sold unless
destroyed. However, a waiver to the destruction requirement allowed the
cases to be sold intact, within the United States, but not for export.

Property given DEMIL Code B could be sold as well, under some restrictions.
However, in the last days of the Bush Administration, Under-Secretary Bell
issued a policy letter prohibiting the sale of Code B property. A waiver
could be obtained, to allow the sale of Code B property if destroyed in a
prescribed manner. At the time, this was irrelevant to the question of small
arms cartridge cases, because they were still Code E.


Recently, however, the Demilitarization Coding Management Office within the
DRMS recommended that small arms cartridge cases be given Code B. This
recommendation was accepted. Therefore, currently, fired military small arms
cartridge cases are Code B property that may be sold only if destroyed.


However, the sales division of DRMS, recognizing the impact that this new
policy will have on small businesses who sell loaded ammunition utilizing
these fired cases, and upon gun owners who purchase such ammunition at
considerable cost savings, has suspended the collection of fired cartridge
cases from military bases, to prevent their destruction. And, they will be
petitioning for a waiver, to allow the sale of intact cartridge cases .50
caliber and below. They are not asking for a waiver for larger cases, which
are purchased as souvenir type items –– artillery shells, for example. They
anticipate that within the next 2-3 weeks, the waiver will be approved.



I have a problem with this statment... From .MIL themselves

Code "B" MLI (Non-Significant Military Equipment - Non-SME) ––
Demilitarization not required. Trade Security Controls (TSCs) required at disposition.


Code B DOSE NOT require to be destoyed! Something smell fishy
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Something smell fishy



Tell your sister to take a shower.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:09:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.


Ah, that makes it a conspiracy. I apologize.  Obviously an Obama mole planted to destroy the once-fired brass industry.

The conspiracy crap is retarded.

Can you explain to me in simple words how you read into Graham's info that this was done specifically to hurt gun owners?

Please.


Simple:   If you had bothered to read the link in my post above you will see that the ordinary course is that a "challenge" to classification is made as to a particular item.  That particular item then gets thorough review and a recommendation to reclassify comes out.   This makes  sense.   The decision to reclassify something doesn't just congeal from thin air.   It isn't an  automatic thing that happens.   If there were problems with Airplane parts then the challenge would be to airplane parts.

Graham's office apparently  indicated that there was a recommendation for small arms brass to be reclassified.   If such a recommendation was made, then it had to be precipitated by a "challenge" of the existing classification.   Who made that challenge?   The only thing we know is that it comes out following a number of major news stories on ammunition being bought in the USA and ending up in Mexico which were put in circulation in the media based on talking points from this Administration.  

You say you're a bigshot national radio producer.   Congratulations.    Now start asking the right questions, please:

"Was there a challenge made specifically as to the prior classification of expended small arms ammunition casings?"

"Was the challenge made as a result  of an internal assessment or based on a communication from the Administration or a Member of Congress?

"If it was an external communication that contained the 'challenge' can we please get our FOIA papers filled out so we can have a copy of that?"

Thanks, Gonz.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:12:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.



You say you're a bigshot national radio producer.   Congratulations.    Now start asking the right questions, please:


Thanks, Gonz.


No big-shot, merely a gopher, but the cool thing is I do tend to get calls returned when I mention the boss.  Nothing you have posted is outside the normal operations of the system.

NOTHING you have posted is outside the normal operations of the system. What do you think the DCMO office does on a daily basis?
That must be where the conspiracy originated, correct?

"Recently, however, the Demilitarization Coding Management Office within the DRMS recommended that small arms cartridge cases be given Code B. This recommendation was accepted. Therefore, currently, fired military small arms cartridge cases are Code B property that may be sold only if destroyed."





Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:13:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.



You say you're a bigshot national radio producer.   Congratulations.    Now start asking the right questions, please:


Thanks, Gonz.


No big-shot, merely a gopher, but the cool thing is I do tend to get calls returned when I mention the boss.  Nothing you have posted is outside the normal operations of the system.





Meaning the only question is WHO made the challenge to the prior classification, don't you think?

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:14:16 PM EDT
[#14]
I did, excellent news



Quoted:

LOOK HERE
Quoted:

We won!



Here is the poop I just got from Gov Liquidation.



This is the transcript of the live chat I just had.





Please wait for a site operator to respond.



You are now chatting with 'Heidi'



Heidi: Welcome to our live chat service! How may I assist you?



Todd: Hello Heidi



Heidi: Hi!~



Todd: I have been told that all spent brass cases are to be destroyed as part of the EUC.



Todd: I have also heard that this NEW policy is being reversed.



Heidi: That is partially correct.



Todd: What is the truth?



Heidi: That is also partially correct.



Todd: Can you clearify as to what is happening?



Heidi: We received a slight change in the mutilation requirements for expended cartridges. Effective immediately any expended mention 50 caliber(12.7mm) or smaller can be released without mutilation. This includes expended cartridges and links. All other expended munitions larger than 50 cal including grenade fuses and flare canisters etc must still be mutilated.



Todd: So this is fact as of right now?



Todd: Can you tell me the source of who made the chage of the EUC you mentioned??



Heidi: This is for all munitions, not just ones that require an EUC.



Todd: Great! who is the governing body that made the change back to allowing sales of 50 caliber and below without mutilation?



Heidi: This came from the Defense Logistics Agency.



Heidi: If you have any more questions or concerns, please email management.



Todd: Thank you for your time.









Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:15:29 PM EDT
[#15]
I just got off the phone with "Andrew", a staffer with Senator Max Baucus's (Montana) office in Washington DC. He seemed to be a very nice guy who was willing to discuss this situation in depth. He didn't have a final answer yet, but he said Sen. Baucus is definitely aware of it and has informed staffers that he fully expects an outcome favoring sportsmen, police departments and reloading businesses. It happens that several reloading companies are located in Montana, such as Hunting Shack Munitions. Because of this, Sen. Baucus can see the immediate effect of this fiasco as it relates to small businesses.

My overall opinion to this conversation mentioned above was very positive. I think Sen. Baucus, a Democrat by the way, will be a valuable ally in this matter.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:20:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.



You say you're a bigshot national radio producer.   Congratulations.    Now start asking the right questions, please:


Thanks, Gonz.


No big-shot, merely a gopher, but the cool thing is I do tend to get calls returned when I mention the boss.  Nothing you have posted is outside the normal operations of the system.





Meaning the only question is WHO made the challenge to the prior classification, don't you think?



It's THE GOVS STUFF to start with. The agency who owns it can classify it any way they want to.  They just screwed your business?  CHALLENGE the decision, which is exactly what happened in a big way.

NO CONSPIRACY REQUIRED, but don't let that stop you.



Man, I give up.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:24:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I just got off the phone with "Andrew", a staffer with Senator Max Baucus's (Montana) office in Washington DC. He seemed to be a very nice guy who was willing to discuss this situation in depth. He didn't have a final answer yet, but he said Sen. Baucus is definitely aware of it and has informed staffers that he fully expects an outcome favoring sportsmen, police departments and reloading businesses. It happens that several reloading companies are located in Montana, such as Hunting Shack Munitions. Because of this, Sen. Baucus can see the immediate effect of this fiasco as it relates to small businesses.

My overall opinion to this conversation mentioned above was very positive. I think Sen. Baucus, a Democrat by the way, will be a valuable ally in this matter.
.

He will definitely be an ally.

Not only has he said he won't even toy with the idea of more gun control, but he's been proactive. He and our other Dem. Senator (Tester) sent a letter to Holder after his recent comments about a new AWB.


Dear Attorney General Holder:

This letter is in regards to your recent comments suggesting the reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons. We oppose reinstating the ban on the sale of assault weapons, and we call on the Department of Justice to enforce existing laws before it considers imposing any new restrictions on gun ownership.

Your comments noted increased violence among international drug traffickers as a reason to reexamine the ban on assault weapons within this country; however, this statement fails to acknowledge laws already in place that work to address this issue. Under current law, both transferring a firearm to someone knowing that it will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime as well as possessing a firearm in furtherance of a Federal drug trafficking crime are already federal felonies punishable by imprisonment.

We will strongly oppose any legislation that will infringe upon the rights of individual gun owners. We value our outdoor heritage, and a large part of that is our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Passing this heritage down from one generation to the next is a sacred part of being a Montanan, and something that we will always fight to protect. In the light of the Supreme Court’s landmark ruling of District of Columbia v. Heller, affirming the Second Amendment right to bear arms as an individual and constitutionally protected right, we urge you to avoid any legislative proposals that would jeopardize the Constitutional right of law-abiding Americans to own firearms.

Sincerely,
U.S. Senator Max Baucus
U.S. Senator Jon Tester


Additionally, he has a lot of clout in D.C. He's been in the Senate since 1979, and is the Chair of the Senate Finance Committee.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:24:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.



You say you're a bigshot national radio producer.   Congratulations.    Now start asking the right questions, please:


Thanks, Gonz.


No big-shot, merely a gopher, but the cool thing is I do tend to get calls returned when I mention the boss.  Nothing you have posted is outside the normal operations of the system.





Meaning the only question is WHO made the challenge to the prior classification, don't you think?



It's THE GOVS STUFF to start with. The agency who owns it can classify it any way they want to.  They just screwed your business?  CHALLENGE the decision, which is exactly what happened in a big way.

NO CONSPIRACY REQUIRED, but don't let that stop you.



Man, I give up.


You're being obtuse.

I explained with a link from their  own site that says that something "happens" to start the process that wound  up with there being a change in classification.

That "something" is a "challenge" to the classification coding folks.  

A challenge to the previous classification of small arms brass was obviously made.

It was made by someone.

It was made to the classification people.

In response they changed the classification.

Accountability is not a bad thing.   Accountability in this instance  requires that we know who originally asked for the small arms brass to be classified and why.  

Its not that hard.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:24:41 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Below is what Senator Graham's office has found.
––- snip ––-
Property given DEMIL Code B could be sold as well, under some restrictions.
However, in the last days of the Bush Administration, Under-Secretary Bell
issued a policy letter prohibiting the sale of Code B property.

––- snip ––-


So this whole cluster fuck was due to bush?  Am I reading that correctly?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:25:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
NO CONSPIRACY REQUIRED



95% of the posters here are on board with that.  You are getting worked up over a few "conspiracy nuts"

... I mean really, don't forget, you are in the GD.



Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:28:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
––- snip ––-
Property given DEMIL Code B could be sold as well, under some restrictions.
However, in the last days of the Bush Administration, Under-Secretary Bell
issued a policy letter prohibiting the sale of Code B property.

––- snip ––-


So this whole cluster fuck was due to bush?  Am I reading that correctly?


Blood gushing from wrist, lye burning throat, GSW to chest.  Vision fading, last post..........

OH GOD, not this shit all over.......

Once-fired ammunition is not the only thing in that classification!  Gaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............................

Strength returning, bleeding slowing, guts disolving....spirits lifted by new conspriacy.....Bush did it, all involved knew it would lead to gun bans...

Bottom line:
There is no conspiracy here, as much as we all love one.  Just stop already.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:28:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
––- snip ––-
Property given DEMIL Code B could be sold as well, under some restrictions.
However, in the last days of the Bush Administration, Under-Secretary Bell
issued a policy letter prohibiting the sale of Code B property.

––- snip ––-


So this whole cluster fuck was due to bush?  Am I reading that correctly?


No.  The Bush admin change was to say that things in Class B could no longer be sold.

The  more  recent change was to challenge the classification of the small arms brass.   It got reclassified into the class that Bush's people decided could no longer be sold.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:34:00 PM EDT
[#23]
I guess I wasn't able to keep up with the times.  There has been a tropical $h!+storm.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:35:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
No.  The Bush admin change was to say that things in Class B could no longer be sold.

The  more  recent change was to challenge the classification of the small arms brass.   It got reclassified into the class that Bush's people decided could no longer be sold.



Just to clarify... Demil Class B can and does get sold, mostly with no mutilation requirement.  I buy it all the time.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:38:02 PM EDT
[#25]
This is great news to hear. I am still going to keep after my congress critter to make sure he knows that we're not taking this crap. Being in TN, they typically side with us, of which I am thankful for. Thanks to everyone who posted info and kept us informed. I hope the final outcome of this is in favor of our Constitution and our law-abiding citizens.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:38:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Tromatic is actually pretty close with his assessment.  The facts as I know them, which come directly from candid discussions with my CEO, indicate the following:

- Prior to 11/2008, Demil B items required no mutilation for sale to the public.  That policy changed in November, but several exceptions were granted.  Expended munitions brass was one of those given a waiver.
- Enter the new administration.  Since Demil B category items had been given a broad, general label as "national security sensitive" someone above the DRMS (likely in the DLA) reviewed the policy and immediately went with a CYA policy and yanked all exemptions.  No thoughts or considerations were given to the implications of this policy change, but this directive was issued to DOD Surplus effective immediately last week.
- Shit storm blows up as a result.  In particular, the letters, phone calls, and emails to our legislators, the media, and anyone else who would listen caused this policy to be review post haste.  
- As of this morning our company was informed that expended munitions brass will now be reclassified as Demil Q –– which requires no mutilation unless sold to a foreign country.  


There you have it.  The policy change was simply the result of some n00b administrator attempting to close a perceived "national security" loophole and brass got caught up in the snare.  There was no political motivation behind the policy change, but it is good that people like us were suspicious, got involved, and helped bring about a resolution.

Ed
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:40:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No.  The Bush admin change was to say that things in Class B could no longer be sold.

The  more  recent change was to challenge the classification of the small arms brass.   It got reclassified into the class that Bush's people decided could no longer be sold.



Just to clarify... Demil Class B can and does get sold, mostly with no mutilation requirement.  I buy it all the time.



Man, I need to just take an ARFCation.  This thread has made me violently angry.  

Remember this level of energy when some real shitstorm comes along.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:42:44 PM EDT
[#28]
I am very excited that a resolution to this problem seems to be forthcoming.


I can't figure out Tromatic, through.The guys almost seems bi-polar. Half his posts in this thread are insightful, and the other half are .

This kind of crap (the posts from several distingueshed members here) makes the signal to noise ratio so poor that alot of readers will skip the thread.

Tromatic, I'm not calling you out, it's just that your voice is the loudest (probably cause they were font size 36 , bolded and blue and red) as I go over this thread. Please don't take this the wrong way, but tey and tone it down a bit.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:43:53 PM EDT
[#29]
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:45:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.


Yeah... no more 20mm casings.  
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:49:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stuff from Lindsay Graham's office refutes it.  It says that small arms brass was  the subject of a specific recommendation.   The page you obviously didn't bother to read explains  how the coding of a kind of item can be subject to a challenge.



You say you're a bigshot national radio producer.   Congratulations.    Now start asking the right questions, please:


Thanks, Gonz.


No big-shot, merely a gopher, but the cool thing is I do tend to get calls returned when I mention the boss.  Nothing you have posted is outside the normal operations of the system.





Meaning the only question is WHO made the challenge to the prior classification, don't you think?



It's THE GOVS STUFF to start with. The agency who owns it can classify it any way they want to.  They just screwed your business?  CHALLENGE the decision, which is exactly what happened in a big way.

NO CONSPIRACY REQUIRED, but don't let that stop you.



Man, I give up.


You're being obtuse.

I explained with a link from their  own site that says that something "happens" to start the process that wound  up with there being a change in classification.

That "something" is a "challenge" to the classification coding folks.  

A challenge to the previous classification of small arms brass was obviously made.

It was made by someone.

It was made to the classification people.

In response they changed the classification.

Accountability is not a bad thing.   Accountability in this instance  requires that we know who originally asked for the small arms brass to be classified and why.  

Its not that hard.


Sorry for getting OFF-TOPIC! I have not heard that IN A LONG TIME. LOL!
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:49:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I am very excited that a resolution to this problem seems to be forthcoming.


I can't figure out Tromatic, through.The guys almost seems bi-polar. Half his posts in this thread are insightful, and the other half are .

This kind of crap (the posts from several distingueshed members here) makes the signal to noise ratio so poor that alot of readers will skip the thread.

Tromatic, I'm not calling you out, it's just that your voice is the loudest (probably cause they were font size 36 , bolded and blue and red) as I go over this thread. Please don't take this the wrong way, but tey and tone it down a bit.



My apologies to everyone.  Part of the problem is the rapidity of posts in this thread and the repeated BS over and over.

Like I said, this thread made my luze my mind.  Lots of firepower around this place, just frustrating to see how quickly it spins up.

So, if I offended anyone, I apologize, and I am all-crazy not just half.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:50:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.


Yeah... no more 20mm casings.  


Well at least 2 people got through all of the teenage BS.

Yess no more 20mm This will hurt many as well.

Just got off the phone with a large retailer of OF brass in CO. I was told they will be raising prices.

Pisses me off really. They already raised prices $30 in the past 2 months, now they want to jack it up more?

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:51:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
We won!

Here is the poop I just got from Gov Liquidation.

This is the transcript of the live chat I just had.


Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Heidi'

Heidi: Welcome to our live chat service!  How may I assist you?

Todd: Hello Heidi

Heidi: Hi!~

Todd: I have been told that all spent brass cases are to be destroyed as part of the EUC.

Todd: I have also heard that this NEW policy is being reversed.

Heidi: That is partially correct.

Todd: What is the truth?

Heidi: That is also partially correct.

Todd: Can you clearify as to what is happening?

Heidi: We received a slight change in the mutilation requirements for expended cartridges. Effective immediately any expended mention 50 caliber(12.7mm) or smaller can be released without mutilation. This includes expended cartridges and links. All other expended munitions larger than 50 cal including grenade fuses and flare canisters etc must still be mutilated.

Todd: So this is fact as of right now?

Todd: Can you tell me the source of who made the chage of the EUC you mentioned??

Heidi: This is for all munitions, not just ones that require an EUC.

Todd: Great! who is the governing body that made the change back to allowing sales of 50 caliber and below without mutilation?

Heidi: This came from the Defense Logistics Agency.

Heidi: If you have any more questions or concerns, please email management.

Todd: Thank you for your time.



Thanks Flamethrower!
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:52:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.


Yeah... no more 20mm casings.  


Well at least 2 people got through all of the teenage BS.

Yess no more 20mm This will hurt many as well.

Just got off the phone with a large retailer of OF brass in CO. I was told they will be raising prices.

Pisses me off really. They already raised prices $30 in the past 2 months, now they want to jack it up more?



What the heck is their motivation now that this situation is looking like its gonna play out in our favor? Just to churn out more revenue b/c of the scare? If so, then I won't be doing business w/ scum like that.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:53:12 PM EDT
[#36]
If we can still get the small arms cases...Who the fuck is in for a GROUP BUY before they change their minds again???

Arfcom needs to start bidding on these auctions and selling it in the store....

I am in for 10K of 7.62 and 5.56 mixed..

Who's with me?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:53:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Frankly, I'm shock .50 was allowed in.  I know it was heatedly debated.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:56:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:

There you have it.  The policy change was simply the result of some n00b administrator attempting to close a perceived "national security" loophole and brass got caught up in the snare.  There was no political motivation behind the policy change, but it is good that people like us were suspicious, got involved, and helped bring about a resolution.

Ed


This is most likely the root cause of the issue, but if it would have went unchecked it soon would have become a "past practice" and short of an act of Congress impossible to reverse.  Does no one here remember Captain Crunch? approximately 1.5 million Garands were "De-Milled" during the Klinton reign.

Obama is no different.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:57:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:

There you have it.  The policy change was simply the result of some n00b administrator attempting to close a perceived "national security" loophole and brass got caught up in the snare.  There was no political motivation behind the policy change, but it is good that people like us were suspicious, got involved, and helped bring about a resolution.

Ed


This is most likely the root cause of the issue, but if it would have went unchecked it soon would have become a "past practice" and short of an act of Congress impossible to reverse.  Does no one here remember Captain Crunch? approximately 1.5 million Garands were "De-Milled" during the Klinton reign.

Obama is no different.


Holy fuck, are you serious?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:59:04 PM EDT
[#40]
I love this country.

I love ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 12:59:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.


Yeah... no more 20mm casings.  


Well at least 2 people got through all of the teenage BS.

Yess no more 20mm This will hurt many as well.

Just got off the phone with a large retailer of OF brass in CO. I was told they will be raising prices.

Pisses me off really. They already raised prices $30 in the past 2 months, now they want to jack it up more?



I don't even own anything that fires 20mm.  But I had kind of wanted to own a lahti or maybe a custom 20mm gun in the future.  Guess there's not much point, now.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:20:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.


Yeah... no more 20mm casings.  


Well at least 2 people got through all of the teenage BS.

Yess no more 20mm This will hurt many as well.

Just got off the phone with a large retailer of OF brass in CO. I was told they will be raising prices.

Pisses me off really. They already raised prices $30 in the past 2 months, now they want to jack it up more?



I don't even own anything that fires 20mm.  But I had kind of wanted to own a lahti or maybe a custom 20mm gun in the future.  Guess there's not much point, now.


I had a group of customers that wanted 10K of 20mm Lahti. Would have been nice but lots of paperwork, red tape, and insurance for me at this point. They even wanted to pay up front.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:21:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Winner, Winner, chicken dinner....
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:21:13 PM EDT
[#44]
No more dummy grenades either.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:23:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
*** This post came from an employee of Government Liquidation ***

3/17/09  -  1:45PM Pacific

Quoted:
.... The facts as I know them, which come directly from candid discussions with my CEO, indicate the following:

- Prior to 11/2008, Demil B items required no mutilation for sale to the public.  That policy changed in November, but several exceptions were granted.  Expended munitions brass was one of those given a waiver.

- Enter the new administration.  Since Demil B category items had been given a broad, general label as "national security sensitive" someone above the DRMS (likely in the DLA) reviewed the policy and immediately went with a CYA policy and yanked all exemptions.  No thoughts or considerations were given to the implications of this policy change, but this directive was issued to DOD Surplus effective immediately last week.

- Shit storm blows up as a result.  In particular, the letters, phone calls, and emails to our legislators, the media, and anyone else who would listen caused this policy to be review post haste.  

- As of this morning our company was informed that expended munitions brass will now be reclassified as Demil Q –– which requires no mutilation unless sold to a foreign country.  


There you have it.  The policy change was simply the result of some n00b administrator attempting to close a perceived "national security" loophole and brass got caught up in the snare.  There was no political motivation behind the policy change, but it is good that people like us were suspicious, got involved, and helped bring about a resolution.

Ed


I think we are safe now
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:29:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Ok so what is the bottom line to all this bullshit.  I have been searching for some additional surplus .223 and .308 brass that I have been using for years and now no one has it for sale.  All the site have the following:

Attention!!

Due to new government regulations concerning the purchasing of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 , 308 and 50 BMG BRASS PRODUCTS until further notice. Below is a copy of the emails we received from Government Liquidations/Gary Marbut-Montana Shooting Sports Association.

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings.  The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction.  Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer.  Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction.  DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.  "



So will it be available or not?  Seems as of NOW it is not...
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:31:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
If we can still get the small arms cases...Who the fuck is in for a GROUP BUY before they change their minds again???

Arfcom needs to start bidding on these auctions and selling it in the store....

I am in for 10K of 7.62 and 5.56 mixed..

Who's with me?


I'm in for 10K+

Let me know when.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:36:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am guessing nobody can actually read here.


Yeah... no more 20mm casings.  


Well at least 2 people got through all of the teenage BS.

Yess no more 20mm This will hurt many as well.

Just got off the phone with a large retailer of OF brass in CO. I was told they will be raising prices.

Pisses me off really. They already raised prices $30 in the past 2 months, now they want to jack it up more?



I don't even own anything that fires 20mm.  But I had kind of wanted to own a lahti or maybe a custom 20mm gun in the future.  Guess there's not much point, now.


Repeat what happened here.  Call Anzio Ironworks, file a challenge to the decision, maybe the same reasonable (or publicity shy) official who probably does not even suspect the existence of civvie 20MM rifles will do the same for 20MM.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:40:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Ok so what is the bottom line to all this bullshit.  I have been searching for some additional surplus .223 and .308 brass that I have been using for years and now no one has it for sale.  All the site have the following:

Attention!!

Due to new government regulations concerning the purchasing of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 , 308 and 50 BMG BRASS PRODUCTS until further notice. Below is a copy of the emails we received from Government Liquidations/Gary Marbut-Montana Shooting Sports Association.

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings.  The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction.  Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer.  Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction.  DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.  "



So will it be available or not?  Seems as of NOW it is not...


People call me stupid.....
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 1:41:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok so what is the bottom line to all this bullshit.  I have been searching for some additional surplus .223 and .308 brass that I have been using for years and now no one has it for sale.  All the site have the following:

Attention!!

Due to new government regulations concerning the purchasing of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 , 308 and 50 BMG BRASS PRODUCTS until further notice. Below is a copy of the emails we received from Government Liquidations/Gary Marbut-Montana Shooting Sports Association.

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings.  The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction.  Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer.  Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction.  DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.  "



So will it be available or not?  Seems as of NOW it is not...


People call me stupid.....



RIF
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