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Posted: 2/1/2009 8:53:51 AM EDT
More at the link.

Carrying heavy combat loads is taking a quiet but serious toll on troops deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, contributing to injuries that are sidelining them in growing numbers, according to senior military and defense officials.


Army leaders and experts say the injuries –– linked to the stress of bearing heavy loads during repeated 12- or 15-month combat tours –– have increased the number of soldiers categorized as "non-deployable." Army personnel reported 257,000 acute orthopedic injuries in 2007, up from 247,000 the previous year.


The number of total non-deployables has risen by an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 since 2006, putting the current figure at about 20,000, according to Chiarelli. "That occurs when you run the force at the level we're running it now," he said.

"You can't hump a rucksack at 8,000 to 11,000 feet for 15 months, even at a young age, and not have that have an impact on your body, and we are seeing an increase in muscular-skeletal issues," Chiarelli told reporters last month.

Link Posted: 2/1/2009 8:56:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2009 8:58:05 AM EDT by Cypher214]
It ruptured a disk in my uncle's back when he had to jump off of an Abrams after an IED attack.

Carrying an extra 65-80 lbs. of gear (not even counting the times they're carrying a rucksack) seriously reduces combat effectiveness.  Especially for the skinnier guys.

There's a fine line between protecting the troops and turning them into slow, awkward-moving targets.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 8:58:27 AM EDT
Thank God the military is finally starting to realize this. I remember how excited everyone was when we got the new ILBE packs issued. After about ten minutes everyone got pissed because they realized it was bigger; and bigger = command demanding more shit be required to have in the pack during field stuff, no matter how useless the item in reality
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 8:59:27 AM EDT
I doubt anybody is really surprised at this. We are constantly increasing the load on the soldiers. Even with the best of intentions.

A bunch of 12oz items adds up to 100lbs quick!
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:00:48 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:01:31 AM EDT
I'm already broke the fuck off, and I'm getting ready to deploy in two days.

I have bilateral plantar faciaitis, scoliosis in my spine, and other injuries accounting to the job. Granted, I'm not a pup anymore, but damn... I thought I would've lasted longer than this. This might be my only infantry-based deployment.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:04:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Covert8645:
I'm already broke the fuck off, and I'm getting ready to deploy in two days.

I have bilateral plantar faciaitis, scoliosis in my spine, and other injuries accounting to the job. Granted, I'm not a pup anymore, but damn... I thought I would've lasted longer than this. This might be my only infantry-based deployment.


You know most of arfcom probably can't comprehend how much the packs weigh.

For the average arfcommer I suggest picturing strapping your wives left leg  to your back and humping it around all day.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:04:34 AM EDT
There was a British Officer who suggested that a soldier's load be limited to only 40 pounds without a waiver.  I'm interested in that idea, although it means that there will be a lot of waivers for mortars, missiles and machineguns.  35 pounds of PPE is too much, though, especially when there is lighter stuff on the civilian market.

As for pack size, how big do you think it should be?  I have a nice 3,000 CI pack and it carriers quite a bit of stuff, although I don't think it would hold three days of gear.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:07:08 AM EDT

This reminds me of the saying "300 pounds of lightweight gear!"...
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:07:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:07:52 AM EDT
Basic load of an infantryman from the Roman times to today is still about 70 lbs.  Combat load is a different.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:08:53 AM EDT
Fuck it man, lets go 'Nam style. Light flaks (no sappis), soft covers, M4's, ammo, and water. Live by the "When your time is up, your time is up." Sometimes I'd almost rather get shot than to carry all of that shit. You can't hardly move in it anyways, you're almost a stationary weapon platform.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:10:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By Covert8645:


I have bilateral plantar faciaitis, scoliosis in my spine,


You know most of arfcom probably can't comprehend how much the packs weigh.


Or what he means

Good luck Covert, it just means you'll have to carry less gernades

 




Those fuckos probably won't even let me see anymore gernades when I get in-country. lol
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:10:21 AM EDT

Anyone remember that pic of a U.S. soldier during OIF?  He was kneeling down with what looked like 200 lb of kit on his back!
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:11:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Covert8645:
Fuck it man, lets go 'Nam style. Light flaks (no sappis), soft covers, M4's, ammo, and water. Live by the "When your time is up, your time is up." Sometimes I'd almost rather get shot than to carry all of that shit. You can't hardly move in it anyways, you're almost a stationary weapon platform.


I know a Batt Boy who likes to say that "body armor is for Legs."
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:15:04 AM EDT
Ive had moderate back issues since the middle of my 2nd deployment. Started with various parts going numb- mostly the top of my left hand. Started getting lots of headaches, and my back/neck would pop like popcorn if I moved. Never been able to pop a joint before this. My back started going out on my 1-2 times every couple of weeks to where I had trouble walking.


I weighed my PPE with all the mandatory stuff we had to have and it was 64lbs + 25lbs in a combat pack + 9lbs for the M16A4). We were in gear for a MINIMUM of 10hrs a day most of it standing up.


After getting back I went to see a doctor (did not go to a doctor the entire deployment- had our medic give me a shot in the ass of benedryl ONCE when I got a headache so bad I was throwing up, and the ben made me pass out). The MOST I ever got in the way of medical treatment was an examination, a couple bottles of tylenol, and being told it was my fault. In fact my platoon sgt threatened me with off the books punishment if I went back to the doctor.


About 2 years later it really hasnt gotten any better, and I still get random numb spots. The last numb spot was on the back right side of my neck going from the middle and extending to the back of my ear. Lasted 2 weeks. I still get constanct headaches, I sound like popcorn especially early in the morning, et cetera.


Not a sob story as Im used to dealing with it now but Im glad they are just now finally figuring out all this gear is injuring people. They could have listened to the people who actually have to wear it for a living YEARS ago, and figured it out. Adding everything up you are 80-100lbs for a full combat load. How anyone thinks anyone can move and shoot in that junk effectively is beyond me, and then wearing it half the time is going to cause lots of injuries. I would have gladly signed a release allowing me to downgrade that shit a few notches...
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:17:58 AM EDT
Back when I was in the shit, I had a 240B AND 800 rounds of 7.62!!! Add on top of that your water, MRE's, cope, and pogey bait and you're 100 pounds heavier.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:19:12 AM EDT
I  know that body armor is a huge contributor to weight.  It looks like the Marines are scrapping the MTV and looking to repalce it with something lighter, including scalable plate carriers.  http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/2009/01/08/usmc-prepares-for-improved-mtv-program/  Also, a lot of elite troops use CIRAS body armor rather than the standard issue because of the weight savings.  Finally, I have heard that one of the reasons why DragonSkin armor was never adopted (besides the whole controversy over testing) is because of it's ungodly weight.  It is roughly 20 pounds more than standard issue body armor.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:21:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Covert8645:
Fuck it man, lets go 'Nam style. Light flaks (no sappis), soft covers, M4's, ammo, and water. Live by the "When your time is up, your time is up." Sometimes I'd almost rather get shot than to carry all of that shit. You can't hardly move in it anyways, you're almost a stationary weapon platform.



I would have done exactly that. I was mostly in a static position (ECP) standing up all day. I didnt need 75% of that junk. If someone would have lit off a VBIED at our ECP (small one with not much protection) it wouldnt have made a different either way. Id still be getting shoveled into the bag.....


And it reminds me of the statistic you are more likely to get into an accident in an SUV because of the poor handling characteristics (not being able to avoid an accident) than if you just drove a smaller and lighter car.


Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:24:28 AM EDT
I weighed 180 in PT gear when I was in Iraq

With all my gear I weighed 277.

I injured my knees and ankles during separate incidents (twisting to get into humvee turret really fast, and falling down a set of stairs at night), VA denied both claims...
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:26:08 AM EDT
How to Win the War in Al Anbar.
CPT Travis Patriquin.

Notice slide two.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:27:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 87GN:
VA denied both claims...



That's what they do.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:31:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Covert8645:
Fuck it man, lets go 'Nam style. Light flaks (no sappis), soft covers, M4's, ammo, and water. Live by the "When your time is up, your time is up." Sometimes I'd almost rather get shot than to carry all of that shit. You can't hardly move in it anyways, you're almost a stationary weapon platform.


FWIW, unless I'm mounted or tasked as an assaulter, I don't wear plates.  Cover beats armor every time, so unless I know I'm going to potentially be in a action vs. reaction situation (IED/ambush) or have a job that may keep me from seeking effective cover (short-term urban dismount) I don't armor up.  I'll take added mobility, flexibility and stamina any time it's practical.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:31:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
How to Win the War in Al Anbar.
CPT Travis Patriquin.

Notice slide two.


One of my injuries occurred on the way to a meeting with a sheik, in what would later become the Al-Anbar Awakening Council.

I enjoyed that slide show...
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:36:06 AM EDT
Something funny is happening here.  Every time I post about how to make a weapon lighter, sometimes by a much as ten pounds, there is an 11B who comes in and talks about how weight doesn't bother real men.  Perhaps that kind of guy is a rarity.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:36:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Covert8645:
I'm already broke the fuck off, and I'm getting ready to deploy in two days.

I have bilateral plantar faciaitis, scoliosis in my spine, and other injuries accounting to the job. Granted, I'm not a pup anymore, but damn... I thought I would've lasted longer than this. This might be my only infantry-based deployment.





Welcome to the Army Bad Back Club. Mine is so bad the X-ray techs say ouch when they see the pictures of my back. As for the plantar faciaitis I've been there. Took injections in the heels every 3 months but after 10 years they did a plantar fascia release on both feet. I'm pretty sure they screwed up my feet for life. Sometimes I can feel my toes and other times I can't.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:40:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Belmont31R:
Ive had moderate back issues since the middle of my 2nd deployment. Started with various parts going numb- mostly the top of my left hand. Started getting lots of headaches, and my back/neck would pop like popcorn if I moved. Never been able to pop a joint before this. My back started going out on my 1-2 times every couple of weeks to where I had trouble walking.


I weighed my PPE with all the mandatory stuff we had to have and it was 64lbs + 25lbs in a combat pack + 9lbs for the M16A4). We were in gear for a MINIMUM of 10hrs a day most of it standing up.


After getting back I went to see a doctor (did not go to a doctor the entire deployment- had our medic give me a shot in the ass of benedryl ONCE when I got a headache so bad I was throwing up, and the ben made me pass out). The MOST I ever got in the way of medical treatment was an examination, a couple bottles of tylenol, and being told it was my fault. In fact my platoon sgt threatened me with off the books punishment if I went back to the doctor.


About 2 years later it really hasnt gotten any better, and I still get random numb spots. The last numb spot was on the back right side of my neck going from the middle and extending to the back of my ear. Lasted 2 weeks. I still get constanct headaches, I sound like popcorn especially early in the morning, et cetera.


Not a sob story as Im used to dealing with it now but Im glad they are just now finally figuring out all this gear is injuring people. They could have listened to the people who actually have to wear it for a living YEARS ago, and figured it out. Adding everything up you are 80-100lbs for a full combat load. How anyone thinks anyone can move and shoot in that junk effectively is beyond me, and then wearing it half the time is going to cause lots of injuries. I would have gladly signed a release allowing me to downgrade that shit a few notches...


LISTEN TO ME.

Go to the doc.  Get seen by orthopedics.  GET EVERYTHING DOCUMENTED.  Go to all the follow-ups, even if they can't do shit for the chronic pain.

If you don't, when you tell your story at your ETS physical the PA is going to look at your empty medical record and shrug.  Then you'll have to fight it out with the VA for years.

If your chain of command gives you shit, sit down quietly with your platoon sergeant and point out to him that generations of disabled vets 'sucked it up' on active duty and hid their injuries, etc. to 'stay with the mission / troops / kump status', etc. and then had to struggle for years to get the VA to recognize their injuries - if they ever did.  Have a DAV service officer talk to them.  The horror stories are legend - but most are "self-inflicted wounds".

And this goes for everyone else in uniform too.

I kept jumping - I kept rucking.  I paid for it, but I got it documented.  30% VA; 20% CRSC.  And I'm in pain every day.

Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:41:14 AM EDT
Try repelling out of an helicopter with your usual combat load and 300lbs of missile system!

Yes, gear adds up and gets heavy but it is hard to talk someone into being your gear bitch.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:42:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2009 9:43:35 AM EDT by patchouli]


I've been saying this for years.





We need to switch to a "light figher"  or "go-fast"  mentality.



Hire mules or robots to carry the gear.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:43:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
How to Win the War in Al Anbar.
CPT Travis Patriquin.


interesting
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:43:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Something funny is happening here.  Every time I post about how to make a weapon lighter, sometimes by a much as ten pounds, there is an 11B who comes in and talks about how weight doesn't bother real men.  Perhaps that kind of guy is a rarity.


What about the 18-Series guys?  Do they show up saying that weight doesn't matter?
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:49:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2009 9:52:48 AM EDT by TimJ]
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:50:48 AM EDT
It's nuts to have to haul around that much extra gear.


Strip down to the bare essentials and anything else you MIGHT need, you cache where you can get to it quickly.

Essentials to me, for local patrol duty, would be personal protective equipment, rifle,  sufficient ammo, comm gear (someone has to
have some in the squad, anyway), and water.   The rest stays with the vehicle or gets cached.

Of course,  some missions would demand more equipment.  


What's really important?  Easy way to find out.  Grab everything and tape up every item with a piece of tape that has to be
removed or broken to use that item.   Go on your patrol.  When you're done, toss everything that's still taped into the cache bag
and what you used, you replenish.


CJ

Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:56:20 AM EDT
Here is some good video of what is causing the pain for some people:
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery-health/14527-human-atlas-lumbar-laminectomy-video.htm

http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/spinal-stenosis/definitive-guide-lumbar-spinal-stenosis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwNF_foFfAQ&feature=related
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:56:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By Belmont31R:
Ive had moderate back issues since the middle of my 2nd deployment. Started with various parts going numb- mostly the top of my left hand. Started getting lots of headaches, and my back/neck would pop like popcorn if I moved. Never been able to pop a joint before this. My back started going out on my 1-2 times every couple of weeks to where I had trouble walking.


I weighed my PPE with all the mandatory stuff we had to have and it was 64lbs + 25lbs in a combat pack + 9lbs for the M16A4). We were in gear for a MINIMUM of 10hrs a day most of it standing up.


After getting back I went to see a doctor (did not go to a doctor the entire deployment- had our medic give me a shot in the ass of benedryl ONCE when I got a headache so bad I was throwing up, and the ben made me pass out). The MOST I ever got in the way of medical treatment was an examination, a couple bottles of tylenol, and being told it was my fault. In fact my platoon sgt threatened me with off the books punishment if I went back to the doctor.


About 2 years later it really hasnt gotten any better, and I still get random numb spots. The last numb spot was on the back right side of my neck going from the middle and extending to the back of my ear. Lasted 2 weeks. I still get constanct headaches, I sound like popcorn especially early in the morning, et cetera.


Not a sob story as Im used to dealing with it now but Im glad they are just now finally figuring out all this gear is injuring people. They could have listened to the people who actually have to wear it for a living YEARS ago, and figured it out. Adding everything up you are 80-100lbs for a full combat load. How anyone thinks anyone can move and shoot in that junk effectively is beyond me, and then wearing it half the time is going to cause lots of injuries. I would have gladly signed a release allowing me to downgrade that shit a few notches...


LISTEN TO ME.

Go to the doc.  Get seen by orthopedics.  GET EVERYTHING DOCUMENTED.  Go to all the follow-ups, even if they can't do shit for the chronic pain.

If you don't, when you tell your story at your ETS physical the PA is going to look at your empty medical record and shrug.  Then you'll have to fight it out with the VA for years.

If your chain of command gives you shit, sit down quietly with your platoon sergeant and point out to him that generations of disabled vets 'sucked it up' on active duty and hid their injuries, etc. to 'stay with the mission / troops / kump status', etc. and then had to struggle for years to get the VA to recognize their injuries - if they ever did.  Have a DAV service officer talk to them.  The horror stories are legend - but most are "self-inflicted wounds".

And this goes for everyone else in uniform too.

I kept jumping - I kept rucking.  I paid for it, but I got it documented.  30% VA; 20% CRSC.  And I'm in pain every day.



Ive been to the doctor at least 10 times so there is stuff in my medical records. Ive already taken my final pyhsical. However the doctors Ive been too (well some were not actual docs) were not interested in doing anything, and one made a comment about not doing anything for people anymore because he was tired of all the people wanting pills when there is nothing wrong with them. I told him I dont care about meds but just wanted to figure out what was going on. He handed me a bottle of neproxen (aleve), and walked out the room. I did get a profile once for not wearing gear, and I was forced to wear it anyways. My PLTSGT was the type of "unless you are missing a limb dont go to the doctor". I got chewed out for 10 minutes in front of the platoon for that...Im just being cynical but I lost any faith in the medical people or my unit from wanting to do anything, and I wasnt the only one in that boat. Im on rear-d right now waiting to start clearing but I was kinda shocked to see people getting med boared for sleep apnea, and here I am 2 years ongoing not getting anything more than a bottle of OTC pills. The guy who did my physical checked me out and wrote quite a bit of stuff down so I may stand a chance at getting a claim....


Since I am getting out soon I am going to put my 550 dollar a month private insurance to use and go get taken care of on my own dime...
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 9:57:35 AM EDT
Im going on my second year in Al Anbar and when I came back a couple of weeks ago i just left my SAPIs at home. you need the helmet for roatary wing flights which i do a lot of but not having 40+lbs of  plates all the goddamn time has really changed my life. seriously.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:07:26 AM EDT
It sound like it has not changed from when I was in. The rucks were always overloaded with stuff you never used when you were training. The combat load was heavy. Grenada the LBE was around 60lbs and rucks were 85 to 120 lbs. it wore you out. No body armor back then.
RLTW
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:18:39 AM EDT
Weight and the "soldier's load" has always been an issue.  Unfortunately all we do is document it in studies, and refuse to reduce it.

Like ODA said––-get the shit on your medical records.  I wish I had followed that advice during my younger days.  All those years of jumping, running, and rucking have left me feeling old before my time.  I'll have to start talking to the PA when I get back from this tour.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:19:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
It's nuts to have to haul around that much extra gear.


Strip down to the bare essentials and anything else you MIGHT need, you cache where you can get to it quickly.

Essentials to me, for local patrol duty, would be personal protective equipment, rifle,  sufficient ammo, comm gear (someone has to
have some in the squad, anyway), and water.   The rest stays with the vehicle or gets cached.

Of course,  some missions would demand more equipment.  


What's really important?  Easy way to find out.  Grab everything and tape up every item with a piece of tape that has to be
removed or broken to use that item.   Go on your patrol.  When you're done, toss everything that's still taped into the cache bag
and what you used, you replenish.



CJ




Now thats one of the best ideas I've heard in quite a while.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:20:42 AM EDT
We really need those exoskeleton suits, or gundams
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:20:47 AM EDT
BTW, maybe we should issue assault wheelbarrows to the troops.  If they're thick enough, they may be able to stop a bullet too.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:22:18 AM EDT
One reason I didn't stay in, I didn't want to be a 40 year old Army retire with a bad back and knees from humping heavy ass shit for 20+ years.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:37:46 AM EDT
William Owen, former Soldier, Military Author and Novelist, writes:-

       Infantry carry too much because they don't understand their basic task or mission, so they carry everything they might need. If you want to reduce risk, you increase your load. If you increase your load you reduce your capability. It's that simple.

       If a soldier's load is too much for him to carry effectively it's because he has poor leadership and poor training. It's that simple.

       If you deliberately limit your ability to carry stuff, you refine your load to great degree. Today, no one needs a pack over 50 liters in capacity. If you need more than that, then your CoC is screwed. If you're carrying "one day's ammo", you don't need 2 days rations! Re-supply is re-supply and no one operates without it!
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:39:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:44:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 4v50:
BTW, maybe we should issue assault wheelbarrows to the troops.  If they're thick enough, they may be able to stop a bullet too.


Should totally just take those "titanium bathtubs" and put a frame with a wheel on em.  Badass...
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:44:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2009 10:57:25 AM EDT by BD1a]
Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
How to Win the War in Al Anbar.
CPT Travis Patriquin.


interesting


He was a damn smart man...even for an officer. Losing him was a terrible blow to the US military. One could say he had a large part in templating how the "Surge" was conducted.

Ive been saying we carry too much crap the majority of the time from the begining. Asside from overuse injuries, it is seriously counter productive to mission effectiveness. Officers and NCO's at the Company level need to be making the call for what protective posture we take for each mission, not a 3 star general who doesnt even wear his own body armor when he goes out the gate. While a mounted patrol MIGHT warrants full kit with all the attachments(groin, throat protector), hitting a house(where you need to be light and fast) doesnt. Flexibiltity is paramount in this war and we've ignored that is some aspects.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:47:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Belmont31R:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By Belmont31R:


In fact my platoon sgt threatened me with off the books punishment if I went back to the doctor.

My PLTSGT was the type of "unless you are missing a limb dont go to the doctor". I got chewed out for 10 minutes in front of the platoon for that...Im just being cynical but I lost any faith in the medical people or my unit from wanting to do anything, and I wasnt the only one in that boat.




Sounds like a call to the IG or to the Chaplin is in order. I know you probably don't want to be seen as the "one of those guys", and seen as "not a team player", but your CoC is wrong for trying to deny you medical care. I bought into the whole "sick call is for wussies" and "profiles are for shitbags" for all of two weeks. When I got hurt, I realized that it would benefit both myself and the rest of my squad/shop if I was healthy and able to actually do my job.

I thought it was pretty funny when the commander told everyone that "if you were on profile, you needed to do everything you could to get off of it"...


Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:58:18 AM EDT
I believe it. An m40 sniper rifle weighs about 15 pounds. Does it really shoot that much better than a 9 pound Remington 700 like a PSS? I think the guys who are designing stuff have forgotten people have to carry it around.
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 10:58:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cypher214:
It ruptured a disk in my uncle's back when he had to jump off of an Abrams after an IED attack.

Carrying an extra 65-80 lbs. of gear (not even counting the times they're carrying a rucksack) seriously reduces combat effectiveness.  Especially for the skinnier guys.

There's a fine line between protecting the troops and turning them into slow, awkward-moving targets.



Being caught without enough ammo is fatal though.  They need lighter armor.

Link Posted: 2/1/2009 11:00:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2009 11:02:37 AM EDT by MaChu]
Link Posted: 2/1/2009 11:00:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2009 11:01:42 AM EDT by MaChu]
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