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Posted: 11/6/2008 10:55:31 PM EDT
Enough whining! Enough whimpering! Enough rolling over and simply giving up! Neither of those things are going to get us anywhere. But diligence and planning can.

Here is another suggestion for how we should organize to fight any new anti-gun legislation:

First and foremost, we must be highly organized. That doesn't mean just this forum. It means we all have to work to ensure that all firearms forums are interconnected and be capable of working together and sharing news if and when that becomes necessary. Obviously, this will largely fall to the site staff. But everyone can help. But to launch an effective counter-effort against the antis, this needs to be done.  

How will this be beneficial? News travels fast online. The better networked we are with other like-minded people, the faster we can react to any new legislation that is introduced. But more importantly, by getting as many gun owner groups linked together as possible, it will allow us to develop and implement a particular and well focused strategy, then carry out that strategy. Without that sort of networking, everyone is just running around doing their own thing with no knowledge of what other groups may be doing. It makes any effort far less organized and far less focused.

Imagine if all the firearms boards devoted to AR rifles, AK rifles, M1As, FALs, H&K, Sig, Glock, Smith and Wesson, Ruger, and all other brands and types of semi-auto magazine fed weapons, had a sort of "panel" made up by staff from each of the individual forums to determine what actions to take, where to focus those actions and how to carry them out. It would make our efforts 100x more effective.

Imagine for just a moment that we needed to counter something in the Senate. Imagine how effective it might be if all the boards were connected, agreed on a letter writing campaign to Harry Reid, agreed on the general tone of what the letters should be (maybe even share examples), and contained a time line for when to send them. Rather than letters being sent a few here and few there to dozens or hundreds of people, you could have thousands upon thousands arrive in his congressional mailbox on the same day. See how much more powerful that message would be?

Being organized is the most critical element to winning our future battles. Rather than being like a bunch of independent little islands scattered all across a vast ocean going their separate way, we need to unite into a tightly connected network that shares info, resources, ideas, develops strategies and put into action plans to stop the gun grabbers.

I would highly encourage the site staff here to reach out to the owners and staff of other firearms forums (as well as all pro-gun organizations for that matter) and form a panel made up from key people with each group to head and direct such efforts. It doesn't even have to be anything overly formal. A simple forum where representatives from all groups can meet and plan would be sufficient. Those representatives could then brief their individual forum members about anything requiring attention. It needs to be done right now. Planning needs to start right now. Everything needs to be in place before any anti-2A legislation ever hits the floor. That way, if and when it happens, we can call up said network, pull out the proper battle plan for whatever situation we are needing to deal with and start an effective effort immediately to counter it. This will save time, it will pool resources, it will give us better command and control to steal a military term, it will allow us to better focus our efforts and it will make our voice 100x louder. Think of it as the NATO of gun owners. Any single European nation would have folded almost immediately if the Soviets had invaded during the Cold War. But with all of them and the US working closely together, the Soviets were never able to get that chance. We must do likewise when facing the gun banners. Alone we are piss ants. But together, we are millions of pissed off motherfuckers who can and will be heard.

Simply put, it is time for all pro-gun websites, forums and organizations to join forces in a  highly networked community. Since this forum is one of the largest and most influential gun forums on the web (with over 130,000 members here alone), why not we be the one to lay the groundwork to start this effort? As they say, "if you build it, they will come."

And one final suggestion and question: Does the site staff have the ability to send mass PMs or emails to members? Lots of people on these forums never set foot into GD or the Politics forum. Many (and I am included) log straight into the actual forums and never look at the front page. So many people miss lots of important news. By having such a system in place, the site staff could rapidly alert every swinging dick that belongs to this forum of developing situations that require their attention and direct them in a unified manner on how to react to that situation.

Again, maybe I have spent too much time involved with firefighting and emergency management. But I see effective communication and partnership with outside agencies (or in this case, other gun nuts) critical to dealing with any major challenge that requires a unified response. Therefore I would love to see us start networking with other forums and pro gun groups as quickly as possible. It could mean the difference between preserving our 2A rights and political defeat.

Does anyone else like this idea? Does anyone have additional ideas that could be added? And for the site staff, how feasible are my ideas? I am so tired of all the hand-wringing and fear being displayed on this forum. I feel we could put those energies to much better use by being proactive and taking efforts to make sure a new ban doesn't happen, rather than running around screaming the sky if falling.

UPDATE #1: We now have a temporary chat room set up to discuss these issues. You can log in by visiting:

http://www.harrystone.net/chat

This is where everyone involved (all the various groups that have joined since the original post) can meet, for now, until the permanent forum and website are completed.

We won't be in the chat 24/7, but I will personally make an effort to be in there whenever logged on, until the permanent site is built.


UPDATE #2: OK, I went ahead and created an IRC chat for our group. I elected to go with a network that I have a lot of experience with. There are a variety of servers. It is an extremely reliable network. I have chatted there for several years and I don't ever think I have seen services go down even once during that period. I know a fella there who runs one of the servers. And it is generally a pretty troll free network compared to most I have been on in the past. Also, depending on which server you select, it is speedy as hell. I really can find no weaknesses on this network. So I went ahead and registered my "Charging_Handle" moniker over there and registered a room. Here is the access info:

The Channel is: #2AM

The Network is: irc.slashnet.org

Come on over and register your nickname. And if you don't know how, I'll help you.

Now, if you don't have an IRC chat client such as mIRC, Chatzilla, Trillian, etc, and don't wish to download one, you can still use the chat by going here and typing in the above info:

http://pjirc.viper007bond.com/
In the meantime, we'll also leave the room at harrystone.net open for a few more days, until everyone can transition to the new permanent chat. IRC is so much better than java it isn't even funny. You won't be having to deal with the timeout issues like you have at the current chat.

Update #3: The forum is now ready. Everyone who has registered thus far was just activated. If you haven't yet registered, you can do so here:

http://www.righttokeepandbeararms.com/phpBB3/index.php

Please spread the word about our forum!
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 10:57:17 PM EDT
I'll help.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:00:27 PM EDT
I'll do what I can , I already mentioned Flash protests in another thread with phone trees for each major metro area. We still need a target list other than Obama/biden/pelosi/ect.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:00:38 PM EDT
I like it!
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:01:40 PM EDT
While I agree that we should get organized and start doing something, i no longer have faith in "Writting letters and making phone calls" to the congress critters.

I wore myself out writting and calling my reps during the BailOut Bullshit.  Apparently a fuck load of other people did too, all across the country.

Boy, I'm so glad us ignorant peasants were so wrong about that one.  The Bail Out has saved our economy, and all is well.

Use that as an example of what our congress thinks of our opinions anymore.


And the NRA?  Well, fuck lot of good they did last time an AWB was being pushed through.


I will get on board with this.  I will write letters and emails and call daily.  But I don't expect it to do much good.  I'm afraid that in the near future a physical trip to Washington may be in order.  Just for sight-seeing, of course.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:05:05 PM EDT
I'm in.  
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:07:17 PM EDT
An enormous unified response is going to be required if we are to make a go at avoiding further restrictions on our RTKBA. I'm ready to throw the time, phone calls, letter writing and money at keeping my rights without further infringement. There's no better place to do this than the net and the various gun boards, by and large I believe most will agree that this is the time for strong unified efforts in the gun ownership communities.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:07:46 PM EDT
Here's my little contribution to the effort:

"Gun Rights: Winning the Propaganda War This Time"

@

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=784460
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:08:09 PM EDT
Been doing my part since 1976, better late than never for the newbs?
I just wish that people would always be so vigilant:
Not just when they feel a good scewin' coming.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:08:51 PM EDT
Sign me up, what can I do to help?
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:11:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:15:26 PM EDT
IN

Common usage

This could be (once again) the issue that defangs the collectivists.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:16:35 PM EDT
Quoted:
I like it!


LETS ROLL!
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:16:52 PM EDT
Another thing I am thinking here (as far as organizing this effort and getting the ball rolling) that I learned from our little "home grown" effort here about 2.5 years ago known as the "Send-A-Brick" campaign, we would need to create a separate little forum of some type for all the various representatives from each forum and organization to meet. With Send-A-Brick, it was only a few people. Lady_Liberty handled all the media interviews. Someone else developed and managed the website we started. I helped to gather newspaper addresses for a massive "letter to the editor" campaign, as well as contact info for radio talk show hosts, tv talk show hosts, etc. We all were assigned specific tasks. And we used the separate little forum to plan, organize and make sure we kept each other well aware of what the other was doing.

We could do the same sort of thing again, but on a much larger scale. Someone would just need to create a forum (preferably private and with decent security against hackers), then locate the key people from the various other forums and organizations and invite them to join. That way, you just have the key decision making people of each group involved, rather than the entire forum membership. This will prevent it from turning into a clusterfuck. But it will give us a high level of organization and control. If and when something starts to happen and we need to take action, hopefully a plan that had already been developed can be put into action. Then the representatives from each group can go back to their respective forums or organizations and pass along the word. This will put thousands or even millions of gun owners all on the same page and we'll all be working in a united, well planned out fashion.

BTW, if you folks agree to something like this, I'll go ahead and make the suggestion now that Old_Painless be nominated as ARFCOM's ambassador to represent our forum among the pro-gun coalition.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:17:09 PM EDT
hell to tha yea!!!
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:18:18 PM EDT
I'll help in whatever way I can.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:18:24 PM EDT
It's gonna take more I'm telling ya . When one of these asshats shows up in your city , we need to put boots on the ground , many in number and LOUD in thier anger . Letters get ignored , phone calls don't go thru , physical presence CAN'T be ignored . Even if it means a couple of us get hickory shampoo .
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:18:43 PM EDT

Again, maybe I have spent too much time involved with firefighting and emergency management. But I see effective communication and partnership with outside agencies (or in this case, other gun nuts) critical to dealing with any major challenge that requires a unified response. Therefore I would love to see us start networking with other forums and pro gun groups as quickly as possible. It could mean the difference between preserving our 2A rights and political defeat.


I think the whole idea is great.  However, let me broaden the original idea a bit.  The organization you are talking about... Of course it can and should be used to lobby the Congress in regard to Second Amendment issues.  However, it may or may not be effective in doing that with the now very left leaning politicians in Washington.  So, you organize and you try, but, if it doesn't work with this Congress, you use the organization for other purposes also––aimed at influencing the upcoming elections and the public's education as related to freedom and the Second Amendment.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:20:01 PM EDT
I will also help, and that means finacially as well.

Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:20:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:20:19 PM EDT
Organization is key.

See first.
Understand first.
Act first.

The sooner this gets off the ground the better we will be in the long run.  Hopefully this will get bumped for the day guys.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:20:34 PM EDT
A bit off topic, but wasn't this done once before between ARFCOM, ak47.net, akforum, etc...?

I can't remember what the issue was, but I remember hearing about the boards joining together to fight something...
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:20:50 PM EDT
Quoted:
It's gonna take more I'm telling ya . When one of these asshats shows up in your city , we need to put boots on the ground , many in number and LOUD in thier anger . Letters get ignored , phone calls don't go thru , physical presence CAN'T be ignored . Even if it means a couple of us get hickory shampoo .



that's fuckin right.  if you've learned anything from this election, it's "Being Nice' gets you dick.

It's time to act an ass.  yeah, i Know that's how "THEY" do it, but fuck it, it worked for them, apparently.  Looks like the only way to get the sheeple to pay attention is take to the streets.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:21:40 PM EDT
I've written more than my fair share of letters. (The last letter I wrote was to Dave Aronberg/FL democrat.) He sent me back campaign shit! (I'm a conservative registered republican.)

I'm willing to try something collective.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:24:34 PM EDT
Wasnme & Bfieldburt......good points. The effort doesn't have to stop or simply be limited to a letter writing campaign. This sort of thing could easily be scalable and multi-pronged in nature. It could even be used to organize a march on Washington if the situation calls for it. By having people on hand from all the various pro-gun groups out there, we'll basically have the flexibility to do whatever we want. The key is having that network in place with the key people required to organize all such various efforts on a MASSIVE scale geared toward any given purpose.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:26:42 PM EDT



Quoted:





Does anyone else like this idea? I feel we could put those energies to much better use by being proactive and taking efforts to make sure a new ban doesn't happen, rather than running around screaming the sky if falling.




I like the idea a damned LOT! You are right on every point in my opinion. I'll do whatever I can.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:29:50 PM EDT
Quoted:
Already in. Posted an announcement at the top of the TXHTF! Will update that as more info is put forth.


Thank you!

See folks, this is how such things start. Never is anything more beautiful to watch unfold than a good old-fashioned grass roots effort started for a worthy cause. What is a small spark can quickly turn into a raging wildfire that can't be contained.

And doesn't it feel good to actually start taking action to prevent what you fear, rather than simply talking about it?
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:30:04 PM EDT
 Count me In !!!



My IM box is empty, email ready, and I got 2 weeks of vacation time comming Jan 1st!


Just let me know what you need me to do!
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:30:27 PM EDT
a common 2A hotlink/web ring would be a start.  I guess we are all on a new watchlist now too.  so be it.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:32:19 PM EDT
By far the most important part that charging handle has already outlined is the need for massive organization.


we must be super organized or this will fail


another HUGE part of this is education, as well as recruitment


As gun owners, we need to be educating those around us, and getting support from them as well.

The strength is in the numbers.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:37:31 PM EDT
Quoted:

As gun owners, we need to be educating those around us, and getting support from them as well.

The strength is in the numbers.




Im personally responsible for two of my friends buying rifles.  One AK and one AR.


I posted a link to this thread in my HTF as well.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:38:17 PM EDT
Who has Skillz with websights ? I'm lacking in that department , we need a common area broken down by state , then metropolitan area , like the hometown forums .
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:39:20 PM EDT
Quoted:
a common 2A hotlink/web ring would be a start.  I guess we are all on a new watchlist now too.  so be it.


this,

I'm not extremely web savy but if someone could host a new address, like milliongunmarch.com or something and set it up with structural organization with links for all 50 states and outlining what needs to be started and accomplished on a state level and can be grown to a national level to ultimately win our fight.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:39:33 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:

As gun owners, we need to be educating those around us, and getting support from them as well.

The strength is in the numbers.




Im personally responsible for two of my friends buying rifles.  One AK and one AR.


I posted a link to this thread in my HTF as well.


I also started one in the Colorado HTF.

I have also given the BRD to a number of different people.

It is my duty.

Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:42:56 PM EDT
Good idea! We need to get organized! Even if only a thousand of us are actively involved, that's still enough to be heard if we all speak at once and to the same people.

Enough of being an angry rabble; we need to be an angry, organized formation with officers and a battle plan.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:45:00 PM EDT
I posted in the AZ HTF linked to this thread.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:45:59 PM EDT
Quoted:
Good idea! We need to get organized! Even if only a thousand of us are actively involved, that's still enough to be heard if we all speak at once and to the same people.

Enough of being an angry rabble; we need to be an angry, organized formation with officers and a battle plan.



We need 1000 in each major metro area , that way if only 300 can turn out on short notice we still make an impact.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:50:59 PM EDT
Guys, what we also need is to get a link to this thread tacked in every technical forum. I think it's a good idea to get permission from site staff to do so, and go from there, but we definately need it.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:53:29 PM EDT
I need stickers and small business cards with info. I'd have no problem getting the word out.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:55:32 PM EDT
I think this is a great idea.

Get the NRA involved, that's what they exist for. Perhaps they could start putting information about the online network of gun fora in some of their mailers or something, to raise awareness.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:55:41 PM EDT
Quoted:
I need stickers and small business cards with info. I'd have no problem getting the word out.


If we can get something to rally around, I would happily promote it at my range.


mental note-  buy another ink cartridge for the printer.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:56:59 PM EDT
Quoted:
Who has Skillz with websights ? I'm lacking in that department , we need a common area broken down by state , then metropolitan area , like the hometown forums .


I do as well as many others on here. We have a huge resource of IT guys on this site alone. We could easily throw up websites, forums, mass mailers, whatever form of commo to the masses we decided upon. Before we could even get to that we have to have a goal, direction, leadership and a message to convey as single unified front.
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:58:18 PM EDT
In one voice let's tell Obama to keep his fucking change !!!!
Link Posted: 11/6/2008 11:58:25 PM EDT
Quoted:
full court press on the Congress Critters



I vote for this as the slogan!

Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:03:42 AM EDT
Being that I don't have a pen or paper handy, I am just going to start jotting down some random thoughts that are coming into my mind, just to have a written record of it later if it slips my memory. So please don't think I am insane. LOL.

Who could be included in our united effort?
-arf.com
-ak47.net
-FAL Files
-Pre-Ban.com (does that still exist?)
-perfectunion.com forums
-NRA
-GOA
-Any and all pro gun bloggers
-writers, such as Massad Ayoob
-Jim Scouten and his tv show
-The High Road forums
-Lightfighter Forum
-TacticalForums.com
-Get off the X forum (ran by Tactical Response)
-any and all pro-gun radio and tv show hosts at the local or national level
-Glocktalk.com
-sigforum.com
-the various forums dedicated to survival
-local sportsman's clubs and shooting organizations
(more to be added later as they come to mind)

How much money will be needed for operating costs?
-Hopefully little or none
-Main thrust of efforts will be confined to sharing information among pre-existing groups/organizations
-projects requiring significant funding can be tackled by organizations already designed and setup to perform those functions (i.e. NRA, GOA, etc)

Primary tasks and goals
-Bring the entire firearms community together utilizing key people from the various groups, forums and organizations
-Develop plans and strategies for dealing with the most likely threats firearms owners face  now and in the coming years
-Assist in the rapid sharing of information between all partner organizations and take an active role in the dissemination of said info using electronic, print media, radio, tv, or voice capable means
-collect and save all addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses for every member of Congress in order to quickly be able to provide contact info to the group as needed
-organize any demonstrations or rallies on the local, regional or national level
-Put increased political pressure on the gun grabbers by more effectively painting them for what they are before a larger audience than any single group alone can reach
-Work as a unit to start a massive NRA membership drive
(more to come later)

...Again folks, please ignore this post. I am just trying to brainstorm some ideas for later and save my thoughts before I forget them. Will revisit that later with a little less disorganization and chaos, hopefully. LOL.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:08:54 AM EDT
Get all the industry partners on board as soon as we can get a sight up , they have a dog in this fight bigtime. That should pretty much saturate the web with our link.

We have to reach out to the sportsmen as well , one of the people who own the company I work for is a rather famous African Game hunter who has written a few books on the subject , I'll contact him ASAP and get him on board , possibly as a spokesman to do the reaching out thing.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:12:51 AM EDT
Could we have a universal "Amber Alert?"


Gun forums would could maybe run a ticker of the offending congress person with contact info.  Same with retailer and manufacturer websites?  Gun organisations like the NRA could host the tickers maybe?

I dont know much of website development... is this even possible?
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:16:20 AM EDT
more than happy to help.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:20:17 AM EDT
I know you guys will flame me for this, but I think you should include knife and sword forums, and perhaps even (dare I say it?) airsoft and paintball forums.

If you want to influence a TON of kids at an impressionable age, you should push for pro-2a movements on the numerous (more than real guns I'd wager) Paintball and Airsoft forums. Most of the people fooling with that stuff are adolescent and teenage kids who might not be too steeped in liberal indoctrination yet. They can be made to understand that their hobby is next.

In Australia, paintball is heavily regulated, and many US players know this.

The NRA and other 2A organizations should b out in droves at these paintball tournaments and games with big tour buses promoting the shooting sports like crazy. I don' know why they haven't.

The only resistance to this would be older members who want to distance themselves from association with real firearms in hopes their hobby will be "left alone". They don't understand that they will be next.

KIds can write letters too. Even if they aren't old enough to vote, a 14 year old kid today can vote in the next presidential election.
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:20:25 AM EDT
Quoted:
Get all the industry partners on board as soon as we can get a sight up , they have a dog in this fight bigtime. That should pretty much saturate the web with our link.

We have to reach out to the sportsmen as well , one of the people who own the company I work for is a rather famous African Game hunter who has written a few books on the subject , I'll contact him ASAP and get him on board , possibly as a spokesman to do the reaching out thing.


Excellent thinking! Imagine if all the vendors here used a portion of their home page as a part of the effort to rapidly disseminate info that goes out in the form of alerts from our little united group! As a matter of fact, I can't believe I forgot all of arfcom's vendors and industry partners. I move that if we get this thing rolling, each and every vendor should have at least one representative representing their company on our panel. Nobody is more threatened by these liberal assholes than our dealers. Having them aboard would make a huge impact in  helping us reach and coordinate with as many gun owners as possible.

BTW, does anyone here know anything about setting up a somewhat secure private forum? If we proceed with this, we will have to have a place where all of these various people can come together to discuss, plan and coordinate activities. Yet we want to keep it as free as possible from dipshits, trolls and the enemy themselves. Again, I don't want us to get ahead of ourselves here. If we do this and have our group represented among countless others as we like, we will need to work out all of the details with the staff here first. So we shouldn't take any action until that is taken care of first. But having someone knowledgeable in setting up and running such a forum will be critical as we go forward. So perhaps getting some capable candidates for that job selected now may save time and allow us to get off on the right foot, if and when we get started. But what I am basically suggesting is having a forum where only the key people could access and post, much like the little private section the site staff here has. That way, it will prevent any problems from showing up in public view and keep any info on a "need to know basis".
Link Posted: 11/7/2008 12:21:00 AM EDT
When communicating with your elected officials, Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS). Put the number and name of the bill you want them to vote aye or nay on, and tell them why in very few words. Send postcards so they can't tell you that your mail was delayed by Anthrax screening, and call and e-mail and fax. Be polite, but don't let them forget that they work for us, and they can lose their job and perks when re-election time comes around. There may be more gun owners in America today than in any time in our history, and together we are a formidable force.
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