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Posted: 10/2/2008 2:07:16 PM EDT
Tactical Response send lots of lead downrange

Pretty interesting video. There are 4 stoppages during the above video. But overall, I was still pretty impressed by the weapon's reliability. Stoppage #1 appears to be a failure to fire. The weapon went into battery so it wasn't a feeding problem. Probably a result of a hard primer among what I am pretty sure was the S&B ammo they were using. Stoppage #2 and #3 happened with the same magazine, likely meaning it was a crappy mag that didn't allow the rounds to fully feed into the chamber. The final stoppage appeared to be another feeding issue. This may have also been a bad mag or follower issue. I do not know. I would assume most of the mags they were using were likely heavily used range mags. But I'll just throw that one out there and call it a legit jam. Out of 1000 rounds fired in rapid succession, I'd still rate that as pretty decent reliability.

Regardless, we know the Glock is a reliable weapons platform. But this video just goes to show that even a reliable weapon can malfunction if you fire enough rounds through it. You're gonna get a round that has a hard primer from time to time. You're gonna come across a bad mag from time to time. So thoroughly test any mags before you put them into your carry rotation. And even with a reliable weapon, one needs to practice clearing malfunctions on a frequent basis. There is barely a pause when James encounters a stoppage because he clears them quicker than greased lightning.

I'd like to try this sometime myself, but current ammo prices make me cringe to just think about it. LOL.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:09:21 PM EDT
Damn, I was hoping to see a G18.

ETA: He slowed down a little toward the end.  I bet he had one sore forearm.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:11:20 PM EDT


.3% failure rate is acceptable.

No way an out-of-the-box- Kimber will do that.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:13:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:14:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:14:47 PM EDT
The S&B primers are hard, and you can get FTF because of that. I've seen it with their 45 ammo.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:16:12 PM EDT
Was it just me or did a few of those camera people pass the line while they were firing?
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:17:32 PM EDT

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


I saw that. Thought it was pretty slick.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:21:59 PM EDT

Quoted:


.03% failure rate is acceptable.

No way an out-of-the-box- Kimber will do that.


Didn't take long for someone to bring up a completely unrelated firearm.



Very impressive test.  I've never owned a Glock, might have to try one out.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:22:24 PM EDT

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


Yup. Pretty smart. Of course James preaches "moving and getting off the X". This video is evidence he practices (and has ingrained in him) what he preaches.

I am trying to talk enough of my local shooting buddies to join with me and get Tactical Response to come up here sometime and put on a class. I ordered some of their training videos to sample what they teach and liked what I saw. I don't think I'm gonna have a problem getting enough people on-board to get a class setup sometime in the not so distant future.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:22:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:27:29 PM EDT

Cool.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:27:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:29:33 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


I saw that. Thought it was pretty slick.


Should be part of your training routine.


You're absolutely right. Honestly, I really don't train. I need to get off my ass, take a course or something.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:33:28 PM EDT
It melted the guide rod and the spring is rattling around inside.  I don't call it a success when the gun requires repairs.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:34:42 PM EDT
shit lets see that in 10mm!
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:35:40 PM EDT

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


This is key.


and FAST! (not the word...)
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:35:49 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


I saw that. Thought it was pretty slick.


Should be part of your training routine.


You're absolutely right. Honestly, I really don't train. I need to get off my ass, take a course or something.


Lots of good courses out there, and you'll find it to be some of the best use of firearms related money.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:36:05 PM EDT

Quoted:
It melted the guide rod and the spring is rattling around inside.  I don't call it a success when the gun requires repairs.


The success is that the gun kept on functioning even with the guide rod MIA.  
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:36:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:39:45 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
It melted the guide rod and the spring is rattling around inside.  I don't call it a success when the gun requires repairs.


The success is that the gun kept on functioning even with the guide rod MIA.  


See, even Glocks wish they were 1911s.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:40:23 PM EDT

Quoted:
No way an out-of-the-box- Kimber will do that.


I'd be interested in seeing the results of your test that show this.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:41:43 PM EDT
Kept firing even after the guide-rod melted and fell out.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:42:07 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


I saw that. Thought it was pretty slick.


Should be part of your training routine.


You're absolutely right. Honestly, I really don't train. I need to get off my ass, take a course or something.


This is a problem most of us face to be quite honest. We either don't train at all or don't train enough. I often find myself falling into the latter category. I am either too busy, tooi tired, the weather is too cold, it is raining, etc. But I am trying to put aside the excuses and just do it. Violent encounters may not happen during ideal weather conditions or wait until I am not busy. So my training shouldn't either. LOL. Trying to think about it in that light helps motivate me. And regardless of how many classes you take, books you read or videos you watch, without getting out there on a regular basis and practicing what you have learned, you become rusty very fast and forget much of what you learned. It's a lot like martial arts. Constant practice is necessary to keep one's skills honed.

I have even been considering getting a couple of higher end Glock and AR-15 air soft replicas for practice indoors. One can't go to the range every single day. But with an air soft that has a decent trigger replication of the weapon you use, you can even get in some meaningful practice indoors. And this you can do daily. While I don't consider it a replacement for training with the actual guns you plan to use, it certainly beats doing nothing and helps you get in more "trigger time", even if its -20 degrees outside and snow is asshole deep.

BTW, here is another video covering malfunction clearing from James:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uqtq_MPOBk

There's some pretty good info contained within you might find useful.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:43:29 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
It melted the guide rod and the spring is rattling around inside.  I don't call it a success when the gun requires repairs.


I call it a success when the gun is broken yet continues to function.



+1
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:43:41 PM EDT
Thats not very impressive. this coming from a glock fanboy. There are other tests with way better results.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:45:38 PM EDT
looks like the failures were ammo related.  

I dunno why the guys doing these videos don't wear some gloves.  that's gotta be hot!
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:46:09 PM EDT

Quoted:
Was it just me or did a few of those camera people pass the line while they were firing?


Yep.  Way past the firing line.  Shouldn't be there if they're gonna pull that shit.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:48:47 PM EDT
Watched those vids yesterday.

Do not have any reservations about training with Tactical Response - it is well worth the money and time.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:49:03 PM EDT
He sure wastes a lot of time racking the slide.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:50:55 PM EDT

Quoted:
He sure wastes a lot of time racking the slide.


If you see him do it in person, it is not "wasted time."



Dude is fast.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:51:51 PM EDT
LOL TRY THAT WITH A S&W 500
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:51:53 PM EDT
Really not that impressive compared to the 1911 test...
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:53:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:54:04 PM EDT

Quoted:
Really not that impressive compared to the 1911 test...


What test?
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:54:11 PM EDT
If they where going to take the time to do this and to have all those people there they should have just used a handful of known good mags and had one guy pick up mags while 10-15 guys reload those handful of known good mags.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:55:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:56:04 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
He sure wastes a lot of time racking the slide.


If you see him do it in person, it is not "wasted time."



Dude is fast.


I just saw 12 minutes of his doing it in a video which was run in real-time.

He wasted a bit of time racking the slide, in some cases more than one attempt per racking.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:57:10 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Really not that impressive compared to the 1911 test...


What test?


I think he's referring to this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wL2QuFTLQ
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:58:02 PM EDT
nm
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:59:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 2:59:01 PM EDT
Tag for later
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:03:04 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
He sure wastes a lot of time racking the slide.


If you see him do it in person, it is not "wasted time."



Dude is fast.


I just saw 12 minutes of his doing it in a video which was run in real-time.

He wasted a bit of time racking the slide, in some cases more than one attempt per racking.


Oh.

I thought you were commenting on his reloading technique - which involves RTS.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:03:19 PM EDT

Quoted:
Notice during the malfunction clearance he moves laterally.


thats their doctrine
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:07:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:48:11 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Was it just me or did a few of those camera people pass the line while they were firing?


Yep.  Way past the firing line.  Shouldn't be there if they're gonna pull that shit.



I thought it may have been the camera angle, but now tat I watch it again it's very obvious.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:54:41 PM EDT

Quoted:
I have even been considering getting a couple of higher end Glock and AR-15 air soft replicas for practice indoors. .



I can tell you as an LE firearms trainer that this is GREAT training.  Airsoft indoors against REAL people is an invaluable tool for training.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:55:01 PM EDT
Wasn't really impressed with the guns performance.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 3:55:30 PM EDT

Quoted:


.03% failure rate is acceptable.

No way an out-of-the-box- Kimber will do that.


hehe Glocks only for me please
I
I
I
V
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 4:00:22 PM EDT
A lot of ignorance being displayed in this thread.
Ignorance of the difference between range rules and cardinal gunhandling rules.
Ignorance of the difference between shooting and martial gunhandling.
Link Posted: 10/2/2008 4:01:37 PM EDT

Quoted:
A lot of ignorance being displayed in this thread.
Ignorance of the difference between range rules and cardinal gunhandling rules.
Ignorance of the difference between shooting and martial gunhandling.


What he said.
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