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Posted: 6/17/2008 6:49:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 4:52:38 PM EST by kybosshog420]
Video

(WHAS11) - Jeffersonville police say road rage may have led to a shooting. A woman in an SUV and a man on a motorcycle engaged in some sort of disagreement while driving along 10th Street. Police say she put an end to it when she shot him in the chest.

“She has been very cooperative and given us voluntary statements. She says her actions were in self defense,” said Detective Todd Hollis.

Witnesses told police some sort of exchange happened between the two a mile away from the intersection of 10th St. and Allison Lane. But they kept driving until they got to the stop light. He hopped off his bike, approached her car and shortly thereafter she shot him.”

We did not find any weapons on him. He stopped his motorcycle and immediately got off and approached her door. He may have opened the door. She never got out and that’s when the shooting occurred,” said Hollis.

Witnesses told police the whole incident took about 10 seconds. The driver stayed and called 9-1-1. Within three minutes police were on the scene trying to figure out what happened.

“There was some immediate aggression on his part when he got of his bike. What his actions were and how threatening they were we’re not sure. We’ll have to determine that in our investigation.”

The motorcyclist underwent surgery and remains in the hospital. Doctors say he’ll likely survive the shooting. Police haven’t had an opportunity to get his side of the story yet. But at this point, police haven’t filed any charges against the woman.

“We’ve been in touch with Clark County prosecutor’s office and they have made the decision to withhold their decision pending our investigation.”
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:51:54 PM EST
Weapon or not, if he approached her car and opened her door, I can see how it could be self defense.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:52:57 PM EST
Good shoot....
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:54:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tolip:
Weapon or not, if he approached her car and opened her door, I can see how it could be self defense.


+1
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:55:52 PM EST
Yep...

Good shooting. Anyone who is willing to take it as far as getting off or out of a vehicle is dangerous in my mind.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:56:12 PM EST
Immediate aggression upon getting off bike? Comes at car and opens door? Jeez...I'd probably shoot.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:56:49 PM EST
I have had people do stupid stuff when i was on my bike, But i usualy just yell and flip them off. I would never ever stop, get off the bike or approach their car. I surely would not open their door.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:58:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:58:37 PM EST
Big biker guy against a woman. I don't think he needed a weapon to make this justifiable if he gave her the impression he intended to harm her. And getting off his bike, walking back to her car and opening her door (all the while she is likely telling him to back off) in my mind constitutes enough of a threat to justify her dropping the hammer on him.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 6:59:31 PM EST
women drivers, no survivors
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:00:02 PM EST
Need more details, but on the surface it looks like it may have been a good shoot.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:00:28 PM EST
I got a bumper sticker at a fun show that is stuck up in my garage....

Honk if you've never seen an Uzi fired from a car window
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:00:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2008 7:01:07 PM EST by Melvinator2k0]
I would have just driven off as soon as he stepped out of the car assuming it was safe to run the light.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:01:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:
Good shoot....


Depends on the actions of both parties before the shooting. You are hard pressed to claim self defense if you engage in a ongoing incident then stop and wait until the person comes to your car to shoot him.

I've seen enough road rager women that are just as bad if not worse then men. I'd like to know if she cut him off then flipped him off afterwards as an escalation. Pretty common, it's happened to me several times in the past.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:02:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:
Good shoot....


Depends on the actions of both parties before the shooting. You are hard pressed to claim self defense if you engage in a ongoing incident then stop and wait until the person comes to your car to shoot him.

I've seen enough road rager women that are just as bad if not worse then men. I'd like to know if she cut him off then flipped him off afterwards as an escalation. Pretty common, it's happened to me several times in the past.


Never get off the boat.....
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:03:13 PM EST
Saw an SUV almost run a chick on a bike into a ditch the other day. Asshole came right into her lane without even looking. I was right in back of them and I really thought I was going to be calling for an ambulance.

Maybe the lady in the car did the same kind of thing and the guy on the bike took the opportunity at the light to voice his displeasure with her driving habits.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:04:27 PM EST
Attempted murder by SUV then by gun.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:07:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2008 7:13:35 PM EST by Lester_Burnham]

Originally Posted By motopix:
Attempted murder by SUV then by gun.


yeah no kidding, because I could never imagine some soccermom almost killing someone in their SUV because they were talking on their cellphone and not paying attention. it didn't just happen to me personally this afternoon.

my understanding is that motorcyclists aren't very appreciative of that.

ETA: generally though, soccermoms are fucking hot, as long as they aren't nearly killing or maiming you.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:09:00 PM EST
Prosecutor might have a viable case if there was escalation on her part - i.e., if she took an active role in the road-rage incident prior to shooting the guy. That is a nullifying factor to a self-defense argument.

On the other hand, if she didn't escalate the argument, good shoot.

And, on the third hand, why didn't she have her doors locked?
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:39:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Prosecutor might have a viable case if there was escalation on her part - i.e., if she took an active role in the road-rage incident prior to shooting the guy. That is a nullifying factor to a self-defense argument.

On the other hand, if she didn't escalate the argument, good shoot.

And, on the third hand, why didn't she have her doors locked?


She didn't want to shoot her window out.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:41:03 PM EST
^^^

I considered that. If so, I hope the prosecutor nails her for it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:43:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tolip:
Weapon or not, if he approached her car and opened her door, I can see how it could be self defense.


Im with you!

Good shoot!
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:48:24 PM EST
If this was Ohio, the new castle doctrine doesn't go in to effect until September. The lesson here is, avoid confrontations. If he got off his bike to confront her at her car, he is the one who escalated. He gave her cause to shoot.

Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:50:43 PM EST
I don't even see how the motorcycle could induce road rage on the suv. Worse comes to worst she is going to run him over and kill him in just about every scenario.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:52:54 PM EST
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:53:33 PM EST
Probably gabbing on her cell phone and nearly killed him, just wanted to tell her how much of a cunt she was.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:56:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2008 7:56:42 PM EST by Tim_the_enchanter]

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


Plenty of bikers ride like assholes and put themselves and other drivers in hazardous situations. I see it almost daily. Then when someone almost kills them they refuse to accept responsibility. Ride like you've got some sense or park it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:56:28 PM EST
An argument is one thing. Attempted carjacking is another. If he opened the door, that's what it would be here, and he'd be ventilated and she'd get off.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:56:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


This is about road rage....not bikes.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:56:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I don't even see how the motorcycle could induce road rage on the suv. Worse comes to worst she is going to run him over and kill him in just about every scenario.


The rage was apparently on his part, did you not read that HE got off the bike, approached HER in her SUV when stopped, and may have attempted to open the door?
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:58:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Prosecutor might have a viable case if there was escalation on her part - i.e., if she took an active role in the road-rage incident prior to shooting the guy. That is a nullifying factor to a self-defense argument.

On the other hand, if she didn't escalate the argument, good shoot.

And, on the third hand, why didn't she have her doors locked?


Some states specifically allow someone to use lethal force in self defense even if they started the argument, if the force used against them was both potentially lethal and unlawful.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 7:59:09 PM EST
If some man were to purposely exit his vehicle or get off his bike in anger and tries to enter my wife's vehicle without permission, I would want her to shoot.

I am not saying it was a good shoot. I wasn't there. But my wife weighs 100 lbs and doesn't sit around thinking about self-defense scenarios all the time. Someone tries to get in her vehicle forcibly I could understand how she might not have an escape route planned or make the split second decision to determine whether it was safe for her to present the firearm and start barking commands.


I'm sorry but trying to forcibly enter someone's vehicle in anger while they are in it is one of those "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" kinds of things.


That said, you can't be a hot-head and talk shit to people if you are carrying a weapon. I don't think I need to explain that to anyone here. Even if in the end you are in the right, it doesn't look good. No flipping someone off shouldn't nullify your right to defend yourself if they take it to the next level, but it sure as hell makes it hard for other people to tell who the aggressor was when the smoke clears.



This is a tough one to monday morning quarterback.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:00:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By F4Squid:
Probably gabbing on her cell phone and nearly killed him, just wanted to tell her how much of a cunt she was.


Bet he will re-think that one the next time.....
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:03:34 PM EST
In my book, whether or not she was an idiot soccer mom driver, whether or not I have ever ridden a bike, and yes even whether or not she gave him the bird, doesn't make a bit of damn difference once he attempted to break into her vehicle (if that is what happened).


I don't really see what being a bike rider and being pissed about idiot drivers has to do with excusing what for all intents and purposes a rational person should consider an act of attempted assault.

You can't charge into peoples vehicles because you are pissed and want to "give them a piece of your mind."


Someone did that to me who appeared unarmed and I would draw and start barking commands (if I couldn't safely drive away). But I am also not a 100 lb woman. There is a disparity of force here and I don't see how she should be expected to attempt to "control the suspect" safely before taking action to stop his assault.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:05:41 PM EST
Of course there is no point in arguing about this, because we simply don't have enough information.

The guy who wrote the article could have just as easily and arbitrarily painted a different picture and we'd all be like "hell yeah send it to the NRA citizens defense piece they put in the magazines".

Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:06:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


This is about road rage....not bikes.


It's about her threatening his life because she was the usual fucktard in a car not paying attention and not giving a rat's ass. Not having at least the decency to apologize if she made a mistake or not the awareness to realize WTF she had even done. Yes, that's a stretch/guess/presumption but I'm gonna go with that having been in that situation many times.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:06:25 PM EST
My guess is she may Have cut him off...but he chose to escalate the issue by getting off his bike.

That said, anyone who thinks ALL motorcycle drivers are calm drivers...better think again.

Many are safe, but on a weekly basis I'll see bikers drive around cars when there isn't a lane to do so and shoot in and out of traffic because they can fit and dont want to wait like everyone else. I have been passed by a motorcycle who never left the lane I was in... they can be dangerous too.

Both parties prolly went too far in one way or another. However, when a mis-understanding/asshattery happens on the highway, one needs to be able to forget it and drive away.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:11:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:

Originally Posted By Mackinaw:

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


This is about road rage....not bikes.


It's about her threatening his life because she was the usual fucktard in a car not paying attention and not giving a rat's ass. Not having at least the decency to apologize if she made a mistake or not the awareness to realize WTF she had even done. Yes, that's a stretch/guess/presumption but I'm gonna go with that having been in that situation many times.


Bikers are not special on the road....everybody gets cut off by someone not paying attention. Bikers are at more risk when being cut off. A risk the biker chooses to take. Don't cry everytime you about get killed on the road......it's dangerous out there.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:13:45 PM EST
Hell, couldn't his helmet be construed as a deadly weapon?

I mean intent and his size aside...
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:14:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2008 8:15:46 PM EST by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I don't even see how the motorcycle could induce road rage on the suv. Worse comes to worst she is going to run him over and kill him in just about every scenario.


The rage was apparently on his part, did you not read that HE got off the bike, approached HER in her SUV when stopped, and may have attempted to open the door?


no. He is a biker. She is a soccer mom in an SUV. She is automatically guilty and he is excused. Well if you are a biker that seems to be the way it goes.

ETA it also seems like bikers are the only ones who get cut off and almost killed? special treatment ?
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:15:02 PM EST
I'm thinking she could have driven off in the time it took her to run her mouth and grab her pistol. Not saying she was REQUIRED to by any means, but I don't think she's completely out of the woods on this one...
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:15:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By rmstrjim:
Hell, couldn't his helmet be construed as a deadly weapon?

I mean intent and his size aside...


Or the intent and size of her vehicle? He should have shot first.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:19:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By rmstrjim:
Hell, couldn't his helmet be construed as a deadly weapon?

I mean intent and his size aside...


As smart as this guy sounds, I doubt he had a helmet...
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:21:24 PM EST
Good shoot.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:22:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Melvinator2k0:
I would have just driven off as soon as he stepped out of the car assuming it was safe to run the light.


He wasn't in a car and if you watch the video you will see he stopped in front of her, blocking her ability to run the light.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:22:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


She probably did try to run him off the road.
Some throttle, horn and a hand gesture would be the way to handle the situation, though, not getting in her car to chat.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:22:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2008 8:24:16 PM EST by kybosshog420]

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I'm thinking she could have driven off in the time it took her to run her mouth and grab her pistol. Not saying she was REQUIRED to by any means, but I don't think she's completely out of the woods on this one...


yea but alot of women freeze up when SHTF type stuff happens, and not having a game plan, or even thinking of driving away is beyond them....
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:25:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


She probably did try to run him off the road.
Some throttle, horn and a hand gesture would be the way to handle the situation, though, not getting in her car to chat.


That it was a woman could well have given his the "courage" to approach. But there could be more to it, like multiple threats before he finally got off the bike and approached. We'll never know most likely.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:27:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:
. Yes, that's a stretch/guess/presumption but I'm gonna go with that having been in that situation many times.


Stretch/guess/presumption?????

It is something blossoming completely from your imagination since there is nowhere near enough information available in that article of video to reach any conclusion. Let alone one such as yours.

So all bikers good, all SUV drivers bad in your world, eh?
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:28:20 PM EST
That's why you get a fast bike and carry ninja rocks in your left pocket.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 8:30:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By motopix:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By motopix:
Lots of people who have never ridden a bike on the road in this thread.


She probably did try to run him off the road.
Some throttle, horn and a hand gesture would be the way to handle the situation, though, not getting in her car to chat.


That it was a woman could well have given his the "courage" to approach. But there could be more to it, like multiple threats before he finally got off the bike and approached. We'll never know most likely.


yes but plain and simple, he could have hit the gas left the bitch and been on his merry way. Should have not stopped in the road and got off bike, the end.........................nothing good could have come from it
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