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Posted: 5/3/2008 5:47:08 PM EDT
Stop breathalyzer abuse
Seems that they don't tell you everything whey they tell you to blow into the machine...

" By Tom Hudson

The last thing I want to do is to tell drunk drivers how to "beat" the Intoxilyzer. But I am tired of seeing the police misuse the Intoxilyzer to beat up on the citizenry. So the following advice is how to get the Intoxilyzer to measure exactly what it's supposed to measure: Your breath alcohol. And if it does that, you will probably be under the legal limit.

The police are trained to operate the Intoxilyzer. They take a 24 hour course, and are awarded a certificate that says that they are trained to be "breath test operators" under Florida law. I've taken that course, and have one of those certificates.

When the police are trained, they are instructed to tell the subject to "keep blowing until the tone stops." In reality, you cannot keep blowing until the tone stops. Why not? Because the tone doesn't stop until you are out of breath. It is a trick, to try to get you to blow out your deep lung air. Why are the police taught to do that? It turns out that the last fraction of a second of the breath is all that the Intoxilyzer measures.

Your "vital capacity" is the amount of air you can exhale from a full inward breath until you cannot blow any more. The lungs of a healthy human being have a typical "vital capacity" of around four and a half liters. That's 4,500 milliliters. The breath chamber of the Intoxilyzer 8000 is approximately 31 milliliters. In other words, the breath machine measures less than the last 1% of your breath. (Actually the last .6%)

They are measuring only the last 1% of your breath!. That would be fine if the last 1% were a representative sample of your breath alcohol.

But it's not.

The last 1% of your breath contains the highest alcohol concentration of your entire breath. By telling you to blow until you are out of breath, and measuring only the last 1%, the standard instructions for the Intoxilyzer can overestimate your breath alcohol by as much as 400%.

400%!

So how do you stop the police from overestimating your breath alcohol? Two steps. Remember this: Three and Two. That's the number "3" and then the number "2".

Step One. Take 3 deep breaths before you blow. If you hyperventilate three times before you blow into the machine, you will reduce your breath alcohol by as much as 55%. This occurs for two reasons. First, the breaths cool off your lungs. When the lung tissues are cooler, less alcohol goes from liquid form into vapor. The result is a lower breath alcohol. Second, the breaths clear out the alcohol from your lungs, filling them with fresh air. Find out more in this scholarly article.

(By the way, the reverse is also true. If you hold your breath for a few seconds before you blow, your breath alcohol will be increased. So whatever you do, DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH before you blow into the machine!!)

Step Two. Blow out HALF of your breath and STOP. Half of a breath is all that you need to give a valid sample under the Florida protocols. The Intoxilyzer 8000 requires only 1.1 liters of breath to register as "adequate volume." Blowing the minimum required can reduce your measurement by another 30%. How does it do that? By avoiding that alcohol-saturated "deep lung air" that the police are trained to test. The statutes do not tell them to test "deep lung air." The statutes tell them to test "breath." So why do they test "deep lung air" instead? Because that's where the most alcohol is! It is a fraud, plain and simple!

So..... does this work?

I have personally, after a few drinks (all in the name of science, mind you) blown into an Intoxilyzer and obtained a reading of .099. That is over the legal limit. About three minutes later, I took my own advice and blew into the Intoxilyzer after three deep breaths. And blew only half of my breath. The result? A breath test reading of .028.

There you have it. The 3-2 Rule. You can blow an adequate sample under Florida law, and not allow the police to skew your sample so it looks higher than it really is. Sometimes blowing smart is a lot better than refusing to blow at all.

But even with all of this knowledge, the best way to avoid a DUI is not to drink and drive. Period."
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:50:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:51:43 PM EDT
I have seen Breath machine operators give people a "refusal" when they did not blow long enough......

but that was here in Oklahoma........
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:52:11 PM EDT
in before the shitstorm
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:52:43 PM EDT

Quoted:
I have seen Breath machine operators give people a "refusal" when they did not blow long enough......

but that was here in Oklahoma........


Was the test videotapes and what was the outcome in court ?
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:53:21 PM EDT
It sounds as if the "breathalyzer" test is so unreliable, it shouldn't be admissable in court.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:54:23 PM EDT
So, when the cop tells me to "follow the pen" with my eyes and I throw up on him it means I get to go home, right?
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:55:11 PM EDT

Quoted:


Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:56:29 PM EDT

Quoted:
So, when the cop tells me to "follow the pen" with my eyes and I throw up on him it means I get to go home, right?


Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:56:57 PM EDT

Quoted:
So, when the cop tells me to "follow the pen" with my eyes and I throw up on him it means I get to go home, right?



Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:57:35 PM EDT
Times like this I'm glad I don't drink alcohol.

Can you imagine trying to remember all that while drunk, standing on the side of a highway with flashing strobe lights disorienting you?
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:57:45 PM EDT
Sweet, i just sent that to everybody i go to school with.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 5:58:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:00:52 PM EDT

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have seen Breath machine operators give people a "refusal" when they did not blow long enough......

but that was here in Oklahoma........


That's because they did not actually blow.


I'd rather them refuse right off the bat.[/quote


yes they did they got a tone and a reading......just were not happy with it......but since then with the Oklahoma updates...the machines are online so the police can not do it anymore.....and yes I am Intox 5000 certified.....or I was it is expired now.......
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:01:46 PM EDT

Quoted:
The last 1% of your breath contains the highest alcohol concentration of your entire breath. By telling you to blow until you are out of breath, and measuring only the last 1%, the standard instructions for the Intoxilyzer can overestimate your breath alcohol by as much as 400%.


I'm no expert. But I have made over 200 DUI arrests and have never had the blood test results come back 400% different than the preliminary breath test. In fact I'm impressed with the accuracy of the portable breath test device we use as the results are consistantly withen .01% of the blood test conducted an hour later.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:07:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:08:27 PM EDT
Some of the top DUI defense attornies. The guys that get $10,000.00 for a simple first time DUI with no crash or injuries have good info on their websites for avoiding DUI arrests.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:08:44 PM EDT

Quoted:
There you have it. The 3-2 Rule. You can blow an adequate sample under Florida law, and not allow the police to skew your sample so it looks higher than it really is. Sometimes blowing smart is a lot better than refusing to blow at all.
But even with all of this knowledge, the best way to avoid a DUI is not to drink and drive. Period."


you tell 'em!

hear that, ladies?
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:09:40 PM EDT
Interesting.  
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:10:12 PM EDT

Quoted:
Some of the top DUI defense attornies. The guys that get $10,000.00 for a simple first time DUI with no crash or injuries have good info on their websites for avoiding DUI arrests.




But your right
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:12:56 PM EDT
This guys advice section is a lot more usefull than trying to manipulate a breath test.

topgundui.com/tips.htm
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:19:46 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have seen Breath machine operators give people a "refusal" when they did not blow long enough......

but that was here in Oklahoma........


That's because they did not actually blow.


I'd rather them refuse right off the bat.[/quote


yes they did they got a tone and a reading......just were not happy with it......but since then with the Oklahoma updates...the machines are online so the police can not do it anymore.....and yes I am Intox 5000 certified.....or I was it is expired now.......


They need some counseling time by a seargent.


some of them were SGT/Lt/Admin etc.....I believe it was a big problem with OK and that is why we went to the online system to curb the abuse......
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:21:01 PM EDT
Blow, don't blow, play games, act a fool, whatever.    Maybe put a little more effort into not drinking and driving in the first place.  I didn't realize a 24 hour operators license covered the detailed inner workings of a breathalyzer.  Are you a expert?  

Bucky145

   

 

 
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:21:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:22:03 PM EDT

Quoted:
Blow, don't blow, play games, act a fool, whatever.    Maybe put a little more effort into not drinking and driving in the first place.    


Pretty much sums it all up right there. If you drink more than a couple beers then call a cab.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:23:25 PM EDT
I hope this works for you in FL, but in WI it will get you a refusal.  


     The on amount of breath being sampled being a major factor in the level of alcohol measured seems skewed.

    I have had individuals submit to the intoximeter test, then request a second test (blood),  if anything, the intoximeter will give a lower reading than that of a blood test.

In addition, the intoximeter requires two samples of breath that must be within .02 g/l or the test will not be valid,  the machine further compensates and uses the lower of the two readings as the test result.

For all who follow the articles advice ( and there is some truly bizarre shit in there) good luck.

My advice is drink all you want, just don't drive.



Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:27:06 PM EDT

Quoted:
This guys advice section is a lot more useful than trying to manipulate a breath test.

topgundui.com/tips.htm


I like this guys legal, unfortunately that type of good advice is only carried out by sober people.  Those that are intoxicated just get stupid....and don't seem to have the capacity to follow those good common sense rules.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:27:39 PM EDT

Quoted:
Blow, don't blow, play games, act a fool, whatever.    Maybe put a little more effort into not drinking and driving in the first place.  I didn't realize a 24 hour operators license covered the detailed inner workings of a breathalyzer.  Are you a expert?  

Bucky145

   

 

 


I think the idea is to get a correct reading, showing that you are in fact not intoxicated, as opposed to getting screwed by a machine that says you're 0.01 over the limit.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:29:17 PM EDT

Quoted:

For all who follow the articles advice ( and there is some truly bizarre shit in there) good luck.


FWIW, I know a lot about respiratory physiology and the article didn't make much sense.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:35:33 PM EDT
height=8
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have seen Breath machine operators give people a "refusal" when they did not blow long enough......

but that was here in Oklahoma........


That's because they did not actually blow.


A very interesting statement
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:37:50 PM EDT
When I worked at the jail here our Intoxilyzer gave up the ghost and the state brought us a Datamaster.  Several guys who had extremely accurate PBT's started questioning it when they were getting Datamaster readings consistently lower than their PBT's.  We asked the technician about it and were told that the Datamaster is set 0.02% in favor of the defendant, so a Datamaster reading of 0.08 was actually 0.10.  I've never understood the rationale behind refusing a breath test.  If somebody tells me I might not be arrested if I can pass the test, sign me up for the test, because I know they're not going to let me out if I refuse the test.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:42:28 PM EDT

Quoted:
When I worked at the jail here our Intoxilyzer gave up the ghost and the state brought us a Datamaster.  Several guys who had extremely accurate PBT's started questioning it when they were getting Datamaster readings consistently lower than their PBT's.  We asked the technician about it and were told that the Datamaster is set 0.02% in favor of the defendant, so a Datamaster reading of 0.08 was actually 0.10.  I've never understood the rationale behind refusing a breath test.  If somebody tells me I might not be arrested if I can pass the test, sign me up for the test, because I know they're not going to let me out if I refuse the test.


0.2 is probably it's maragin of error. If it is 0.10, but the machine has a maragin of error of 0.02, then you can really only prove that it is at least 0.08, but could also be 0.12 as well.

It's the same with radar guns IIRC.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:43:25 PM EDT
you throw up into the tube
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:46:29 PM EDT

Quoted:
good info on their websites for avoiding DUI arrests.


I am not an attorney.  

This is not legal advice.

Reading this does not create an attorney-client priviledge betwixt us.

If you've consumed alcohol recently, call a cab.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:51:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:58:40 PM EDT

Quoted:
If somebody tells me I might not be arrested if I can pass the test, sign me up for the test, because I know they're not going to let me out if I refuse the test.



Yep.

Preliminary breath test is the last step in the DUI investigation phase. The cop has already observed your driving, noted the objective symptoms of intoxication, taken your statement and recorded the standardized field sobriety tests. If you refuse to take the preliminary breath test he is probably going to arrest you anyway. If you take it and blow a .08% or higher you will probably be arrested. If you blow a .07 or below you will probably not be arrested. In fact many of the cops I work with will not take anything below a .10% because those .08 or .09's in the field might be a .07 by the time you get the blood sample and they dont want the DA refusal in their jackets. Where i work the preliminary breath test although voluntary is usually a benifit to the suspect because the results may convince the cop to throw you back so he can look for a bigger fish.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:00:10 PM EDT
I could give a shit what the breath test says. I video tape every DUI arrest I make. You can explain your idiocy to the judge.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:00:29 PM EDT

Quoted:
Blow, don't blow, play games, act a fool, whatever.    Maybe put a little more effort into not drinking and driving in the first place.  

Bucky145

   

 

 


And there it is.......


GR
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:08:23 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Blow, don't blow, play games, act a fool, whatever.    Maybe put a little more effort into not drinking and driving in the first place.  I didn't realize a 24 hour operators license covered the detailed inner workings of a breathalyzer.  Are you a expert?  

Bucky145

   

 

 


I think the idea is to get a correct reading, showing that you are in fact not intoxicated, as opposed to getting screwed by a machine that says you're 0.01 over the limit.


The most accurate reading would be from a blood draw but for some reason most arrested people never want to go give blood.    Truth be told all the officers I know could care less if someone wants to blow/refuse.  We use the EC/IR.  It's simple, blow until the beep or it's a refusal.  Why blow until the beep and not stop short?  Because it will not give a reading until the beep.  I would have to look up how much air it takes to make it beep.

I have no problem with any of my arrested folks taking a few beep breaths before the test.  Never seemed to help any of them so far.

Bucky145

Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:14:49 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
The last 1% of your breath contains the highest alcohol concentration of your entire breath. By telling you to blow until you are out of breath, and measuring only the last 1%, the standard instructions for the Intoxilyzer can overestimate your breath alcohol by as much as 400%.


I'm no expert. But I have made over 200 DUI arrests and have never had the blood test results come back 400% different than the preliminary breath test. In fact I'm impressed with the accuracy of the portable breath test device we use as the results are consistantly withen .01% of the blood test conducted an hour later.


To clarify here (since you use 400%, a relative measure meaning 4 times, and 0.01%, an absolute measure of BAC, in parallel), I assume you mean that the BAC reported by the blood test was within .0001 grams alcohol / grams blood of the result from the breath test.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:18:13 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
If somebody tells me I might not be arrested if I can pass the test, sign me up for the test, because I know they're not going to let me out if I refuse the test.



Yep.

Preliminary breath test is the last step in the DUI investigation phase. The cop has already observed your driving, noted the objective symptoms of intoxication, taken your statement and recorded the standardized field sobriety tests. If you refuse to take the preliminary breath test he is probably going to arrest you anyway. If you take it and blow a .08% or higher you will probably be arrested. If you blow a .07 or below you will probably not be arrested. In fact many of the cops I work with will not take anything below a .10% because those .08 or .09's in the field might be a .07 by the time you get the blood sample and they dont want the DA refusal in their jackets. Where i work the preliminary breath test although voluntary is usually a benifit to the suspect because the results may convince the cop to throw you back so he can look for a bigger fish.


no test sure you get arrested but it is then easier for your atorney to beat.....or at least to get a defered sentence here in Oklahoma...but if you have not been drinking take the test
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:18:43 PM EDT
How about not drinking and Driving.








Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:19:19 PM EDT

Quoted:
Sometimes blowing smart is a lot better than refusing to blow at all.



This is what I used to tell my ex girlfriends.
Seriously though,sounds intresting.I hope to not have to use your advice.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:24:51 PM EDT
do u think a drunk is going to remember 3-2 when they cant remember to NOT DRIVE
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:25:38 PM EDT

Quoted:
Stop breathalyzer abuse
Seems that they don't tell you everything whey they tell you to blow into the machine...

" By Tom Hudson

The last thing I want to do is to tell drunk drivers how to "beat" the Intoxilyzer. But I am tired of seeing the police misuse the Intoxilyzer to beat up on the citizenry. So the following advice is how to get the Intoxilyzer to measure exactly what it's supposed to measure: Your breath alcohol. And if it does that, you will probably be under the legal limit.


Yea, the police just haul poor citizens off the street WITH NO PRIOR FIELD SOBRIETY TESTING at the scene. They don't give them the opportunity to walk a straight line, not slur their speech, and perform the other 3 FSTs that would give them probable cause for an arrest. Wow, you're a phukin wizard with that super intellect of yours.

<That was over the line. JW777>
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:26:21 PM EDT
It was explained to me at the intox school that the deep lung air had the most contact with the blood in the bottom of the lungs and therefore represented the most accurate reading of how much alcohol is in the blood.  In fact the insturctor stated that that was the goal of the test was to measure the deep lung air. Yes you can get a valid test from non deed lung air, but it will always be lower than the actual blood alcohol level. Plus getting readings from non deep lung air, in my experience, causes the two sample readings to be not with in range of each other (because your getting variable samples not the constant level of deep lung air) and it comes up as an invalid test. In that case you perform another test or go get blood anyway.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:26:58 PM EDT

Quoted:
It was explained to me at the intox school that the deep lung air had the most contact with the blood in the bottom of the lungs and therefore represented the most accurate reading of how much alcohol is in the blood.  In fact the insturctor stated that that was the goal of the test was to measure the deep lung air. Yes you can get a valid test from non deed lung air, but it will always be lower than the actual blood alcohol level. Plus getting readings from non deep lung air, in my experience, causes the two sample readings to be not with in range of each other (because your getting variable samples not the constant level of deep lung air) and it comes up as an invalid test. In that case you perform another test or go get blood anyway.



What he said......
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:27:04 PM EDT
Remain silent.  If the officer has PC he'll take you in for a blood test.  If you fail that... well, you shouldn't be driving and if you get a good lawyer you might be able to beat the arrest.  My wife is a cop and she hates DUI's more than anything else since they are about 4 hrs worth of paperwork... but take it with a grain of salt... I think state troopers do most of the DUI shit around here.  Best advice is just to call a cab or pass out in a friends car.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:27:33 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Blow, don't blow, play games, act a fool, whatever.    Maybe put a little more effort into not drinking and driving in the first place.    


Pretty much sums it all up right there. If you drink more than a couple beers then call a cab.


For many people it only takes one or two beers to go over the limit.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:29:33 PM EDT

Quoted:
I could give a shit what the breath test says. I video tape every DUI arrest I make. You can explain your idiocy to the judge.


Yep, dash-cam is awesome when it goes to court. People are idiots.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 7:30:15 PM EDT

Quoted:
do u think a drunk is going to remember 3-2 when they cant remember to NOT DRIVE


This isn't for people that are hammered out of their minds.  It's for the person that just had one or two but is still worried they might be over a limit that is much too low.
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